Are shotguns obsolete?
What advantages do they have over a rifle?
Are shotguns obsolete?
James Taylor
Other urls found in this thread:
Ryan Davis
>birds
>doors
>appropriate loadings for every game animal in existence
>cheaper by far, usually
Sebastian Walker
That general direction and removing everything in it.
Luis Brown
Slugs.
Joshua Davis
But slugs have nowhere near the range and accuracy of an actual bullet, they also defeat the purpose of having a smooth bore firearm
Bentley Morris
Aiden Gonzalez
Shotguns will remain relevant as long as doorkickers exist. In the 2070s there will still be some poor bastard forced to lug around a cut down space-870, mark my words.
Asher Murphy
What makes you think the advantage of slugs is either in range or accuracy?
Ethan Mitchell
Versatility in ammunition payload.
Bird shot for birds... slugs for large and or dangerous game hunting and or defense but also for longer shots against the two legged variety or for barrier penetration. Buck shot for home defense and social work. Rubber/bean bag for non-lethal Force, breaching slugs for entry jobs... etc etc.
It’s the multi tool of firearms. It’s not superb at any one thing but can do a lot.
Jack Price
The shotgun remains the king of home defense. Rifles, while very effective, are too penetrating and their lethal range is too long. They endanger your family members, neighbors, and community.
Federal Black Cloud is the "home defense birdshot" meme made real. It stays in the wad for about 10 yards or until it hits something. That means it goes through only one wall at most, and even if it goes through one, it'll hit as spread out small pellets with low penetrating power. In the wad, it has ideal penetration depth, and with the way the pellets spread inside the body, the damage is spectacular (it also dumps all of its battle-rifle-class energy in the target). It's better than frangible ammo because it breaks up and loses lethality quickly in air: if you have to shoot it in your yard, it probably won't penetrate a neighbor's house or kill any bystander. It's inexpensive, widely available, and not suspicious to juries because it's hunting ammo. Go on one duck hunting weekend trip, and you forever have a reason for owning it that sounds innocent to even the most anti-gun, anti-self-defense liberal juror.
12-gauge or 20-gauge pump shotguns are simple, reliable, inexpensive, and have stopping power second to none. For a paltry $300, including gun, defense ammo, snap caps, and enough practice ammo to develop basic familiarity (though you really ought to practice more than that), you can be properly equipped to defend your home.
Jaxon Diaz
For one rifle you can get three shotguns. 75 yards is enough range to lock down an urban environment. Three guys with guns is better that one. The advantage is roughly 3 to 1 unless you're doing squad level operations with covering fire advances. For home and neighborhood defense on a budget that clearly broadcasts I'm armed but average. Thugs see a hard target professional soldiers see a citizen. This has an advantage too under "normal" crisis scenarios.
Levi Harris
But doorkickers aren't going to be around for much longer. Going into rooms where someone is likely to be lying in wait is work for robots.
Connor Hill
5.56 overpenetrates less than buckshot. I'm a dtupid phoneposter so i cant post the video atm. But John lovell did a video on 9mm vs buckshot vs 5.56 for HD
Nolan Turner
Good thing he never mention buckshot then. Right?
David Wilson
Shotguns are the jack of all trades. They can remove anything with legs between zero (slitheryboys), two (niggers), and four (durr)
>or more
>im sure birdshot could obliterate a centipede
Oliver Kelly
>Are shotguns obsolete?
Would you rather get shot by 12ga or 9mm?
>What advantages do they have over a rifle?
Slugs can have sick kinetic energy, many type and shape ammo available, you can hit multiple targets at once with right ammo at correct ranges
>What makes you think the advantage of slugs is either in range or accuracy?
If its for indoors home defense or hunting it shouldn't become an issue
Christian Campbell
cost, durability, flexibility, and ease of reloading
Charles Jackson
I like these questions so much that I,m pleased someone asks them every week.
Jace Lopez
Ok
>shortstrokes in the heat of the moment
Brayden Nguyen
>utility
>cost
>still causes more tissue destruction than most rifle rounds at close ranges
>inherent benefits to a multi-projectile weapon like increased hit probability at middling distances and increased chances to perforate vital organs or the CNS per trigger pull
Several. Better question is what benefits a rifle offers over a shotgun.
>muh engaging point targets at 500m
Laughable.
>muh 30rnds on tap
another thing that nobody actually needs out of an HD weapon
>sometimes lower recoil
this is a legitimate benefit
>precision at middling distances
another good one
>making you look like a madman to a jury
Definitely wins in this category.
Julian Gomez
>social work
kek
Jayden Ross
>obsolete
Dont you mean racist and think of the kids?
Daniel Moore
>muh birdshot acts as one projectile if its still in the wad meme
When will it ever end. It's going to penetrate just like birdshot does outside the wad.
youtube.com
Dominic Walker
you can have a rifles barrel retard
Austin Baker
>own one shotgun
>be able to effectively hunt deer, elk, Turkey, duck and quail with a squick swap of ammo and barrel
Eli Wilson
>5.56 penetrates both sides of a car door and a inch thick plank of wood while 12ga only penetrates a single door
Easton Perry
Because ratshot is shit and won't cycle in anything but revolvers
Jaxon James
People forget the most obvious reason all the time, all the while being the most obvious feature. In a way, it can forgiven as it's kind of hidden-in-plain-sight pro of shotguns...
Shotguns are sexy. Whatever the type, the make, the quality, they all maintain that je ne sais quoi about that that's just so hhgnn! I bet I could fuck a box of shotshell and still get off.
Jace Jones
Nah, by then we will have 3d imaging through walls. People are already working on things like micro drones with cameras or using Wi-Fi signal reflection. Then you will have Smart weapons that will calculate how much power is needed to penetrate the wall and hit the target without pass through, with a Smart scope that guarantees 90%+ accuracy.
Brandon Ortiz
Actually only need a IC choke and not a full barrel, foster slugs are accurate enough out to 100 yards. Not sure if the KE will be enough for an elk though, BC is terrible.
Sebastian Miller
Just buy a few raging judge magnums and load them with shot or maximum expansion bullets.
Jose Adams
Shotguns solve every conceivable problem known to man.
You can solve not having money by robbing a bank
You can solve your shitty job
You can solve your family
You can solve your wife
Hell, you can even solve yourself.
Tyler Cruz
Recoil with a shotgun is a nonissue. Anyone with any practice should be able to handle it plus increased damage to vital organs over a larger area in general means that you only need 1 to 2 hits with a shotgun to neutralize a threat rather than 5 to 6 with a 5.56
Robert Rivera
You ever tried to shoot a duck in-flight with a rifle? Just try it. Tell me how well it works out.
Evan Anderson
I've done it. It is far and away much harder than a shotgun, but it can be done.
Dylan Hughes
Shotguns
>increased lethality inside 50 yards
>higher 1 round stop percantage
>higher first round hit percentage
>cost
>availability
Rifle
>easier manual of arms
>speed
>increased lethality beyond 50 yards
>less recoil.
They both have uses and applications. Choose the one that suits you best.
Ayden Collins
A 12 gauge slug is the most destructive thing you can practically use on a soft target at close range.
Aaron Gutierrez
>That poor trap with the one fictional KSG in existence
RIP
Landon White
>this fucking thread
>again
Luis White
>one fictional KSG in existence
explain?
Ethan Barnes
>KSGs are notoriously garbage
>then one 19 or so year old bullied on Jow Forums live streams taking a KSG to the dome
Liam Perez
i think he meant functional
some Jow Forums sperg used one to become an hero
Gavin Rivera
Oh shit I'm tired.
Yeah functional*
Luis Gray
yes i know what happened, I was curious why he said "fictional" as he clarified here:
Chase Morris
>that one fictional KSG in existence
>fictional
Cameron Gomez
This has already been discussed and resolved fewfag.
Levi Robinson
>annoying shark poster
>again
Go ahead, post the pink Garry’s Mod man too.
Oliver Baker
>only one person uses a reaction face on 4chin
Dylan Mitchell
This.
Cost
Fun
versatility
Hunting regulations
Shooting in the air
Fun
From a pure aspie objective weapon perspective it's not worth it's weight.
But as a useful tool and gun it's the most practical.
Evan Sanchez
There's more than one type of buckshot and some of them are known to penetrate less than rifles.
Carter Cook
Find me a slug that cab out perform An 8mm Mauser cartridge in terms of performance, accuracy, and range, and then maybe I’ll think about spending money on one of these childish fud toys.
Bentley James
>Tokyo marui
kek
Jace Miller
Different calibers for different applications you complete retard.
Jeremiah Gonzalez
There's more than one type of rifle round too. High velocity, lightweight and unstable rifle rounds are really good at both losing energy from barriers, and causing horrific wounding.
>using birdshot for self defense
Why would you do something so stupid?
Austin Rivera
>that 120 year old boomer that still thinks his great war service rifle will outperform modern chadblasters
Nicholas Richardson
And what do you think will be attached to that robot?
Lucas Johnson
WW1 rifles are perfectly fine for killing people and large animals, only possible issue is rate of fire
Jeremiah Lopez
Jaxon Taylor
>muh varmint rounds or OTMs for HD meme
Any testing ive seen of this has shown fragmentation to be highly unreliable on common housing materials. Shot penetration on the other hand is very consistent. Most people overly concerned with over penetration wouldnt really want to be rolling the dice like that IME.
Elijah Nelson
Someone always tries to say that modern AR-15s are better for home defense, and it's true, there are certainly weapons out there that have surpassed the shotgun. BUT, for $350 you can own the most reliable pump action 12ga money can buy. If that's all you spent on an AR you wouldn't want to trust your life to it.
>shotgun still confirmed for the everyman's choice
John Sanders
C4?
David Howard
That was a makeshift solution. Wouldn't have even been an option if the guy had taken a hostage like a smart terrorist.
Brandon Collins
>If that's all you spent on an AR you wouldn't want to trust your life to it
Why is this? Why can't americans mass produce decades old design reliably?
Cameron Anderson
If we're talking doubled-barreled shotguns mostly, and pump actions to some extent, because anything else is generally a waste of money:
>easy to manufacture
>affordable
>easy to service
>easy to fix
>simple action
>easy to learn and use
>easy to reload
>easy to reliably put to safety
>highest reliability of all guns at all price ranges
>can fit a ton of different ammo making it highly versatile, from hunting to home defense
>widely available ammo everywhere, probably most common caliber on the planet even before 22LR
>easy to make ammo for it
>ideal SHTF weapon
>devastating firepower at most ranges you'd realistically have to defend yourself
>can pretty much kill anything with appropriate ammo
If you don't have at least one 12ga double-barreled shotgun, you probably don't like guns.
Lincoln Myers
Gay.
Robert Nelson
Is that a goblin shark?
Colton Miller
>Comparing 8mm to massive large diameter slugs that are over 2 times wider
Well that's fucking retarded because 8mm Mauser ice-picks through tissue while a slug blows much larger holes through people. But if you actually want a slug that out performs your old shitty Mauser pic related has 4759 Foot Pounds of energy and a sabot design that makes it supper effective at long range. But again, the ballistic coefficient is going to be worse than an 8mm because it wasn't designed to act like 8mm Mauser.