Bullpup

they are superior concept for urban warfare, but nobody has made a really good one yet.
triggers are usually weak but milspec triggers are never that good anyway.
left handed ergo problems can be solved by front ejection.
as for weight balance and magswapping to the rear thats just training.

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How retarded do you have to be to have any difficulty loading a bullpup?

Still living in the 70s OP?

>feel sloppy
OP means people who actually use the guns to fight. Not hobbyists who don't buy a gun because the trigger doesn't feel "crisp"

I want a desert tech really bad

A majority of conscripts and low level grunts are absolutely retarded.

>but nobody has made a really good one yet.
Apologise

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after all which is the best bullpup rifle. What is your top 3?

>the raw fuckability of the ergonomics makes it a total deal breaker. Its unnatural to wield, unnatural to load, unbalanced most of the time, and just doesnt feel good at all
So like an AK?

>Are bullpup rifles the future?
No. In 10 years only China and maybe Russian won't be fielding AR pattern rifles.

How can someone be so wrong in so few sentences?

F2000
AUG
Tavor

If the F2000 was just a cunt hair thinner with a tweaked trigger and bolt hold open it would be the perfect gun imo. Its a bullpup SCAR, poorfags need not apply.

In order

Fs2000
AUG
RFB.

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X95>T97>RDB
T97 and RDB triggers are both superior to the X95 stock trigger, but the X95 wins out because it's got an AR mag release, and it's built like a tank. The T97 is fine once you've found mags that work with it, but the X95 will work any time, any place, with any mags or ammo.

>a namefag telling someone he wrong with literally no evidence or arguments afterwards

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I actually own bullpups and shoot them left handed.

>hard to reload in prone
I found the EF88 a whole lot easier to reload prone than M4's or L1A1's, then again I have little t-rex arms.

It's because your argument is brain dead retarded. You realize something like the X95 has a pretty simple left hand configuration you can put it into. Hell, you can buy a left handed version straight up and and not have to even worry about changing it out yourself.

The whole left handed is bad with bullpup meme is only a sorta a thing because of enough have been made that take into account customization to a large degree.

so, a non bullpup bullpup

>with a tweaked trigger
you rang

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It's about as bullpup as they come, duderio.

>designed for snowflake pistol caliber only
>doesnt have mag behind the fire control

You, uh, you understand where the magazine feeds from right?

Bullpup smgs firing SABOT Bottleneck Cartridges are the future

screencap this

Also caliber isn't a constraint for being a bullpup or not. This is a .22 bullpup. There are 9mm bullpups. Doesn't make them not bullpups.

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>less modular
I don't see how that's necessarily the case
>OAL isn't significant in warfare
Catagoricaly false. That's why no barreled rifles have been the new hotness for so long

>Is Betamax the future?

>The smaller form factor makes sense, but will it ever become the preeminent design?

OP you're living about 40 years in the past. Stop it.

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well the entire mag isnt, and you cant physically put in a short one.
the fact thats its an smg and cant be scaled to a rifle caliber is mostly my argument. smgs are pretty damn short anyway

obviously you can covert anything into a bullpup. i think op is referring to military adoption

Ya, that's what the numbers guys kept saying, but the reality isn't so great

Jow Forums memes aside, guns aren't really something people use to watch porn

Bullpups have far better balance and handling, and capability of being short with a standard length barrel

But downsides are trigger and ejection? Doesn’t seem that bad to me.

Doesn't mean it isn't a bullpup.
That isn't a conversion, it's bullpup from the ground up.

bullpupping a pistol caliber achieves nothing, therefore its fucking useless

Right. Apart from, y'know, making it ultra compact with an appropriate length barrel (~10-11" is ideal for 9mm for example).

Imagine a PCC with an OAL of less than 20". I'd buy one.

>not bullpup lever action shotguns with vertically moving bolts
it's like you don't even future, kid

>appropriate length barrel for 9mm
>10"
nobody has given a single fuck for 100 years

Why are you so angry about pistol calibers, friend?

>in b4 keltec ksg memery
But - seriously. A bullpup shotgun kinda makes sense to me. Is that bad? I mean not the KSG because I think switching mag tubes like that is silly.

im not, youre just making shit up
you can literally stick a stock on a pistol and itll be a "pcc"

>youre just making shit up
Like what? Do tell.

that pccs are somehow too long and benefit for a bullpup design. said no one ever.
a bullpup is advantageous to shorten oal on rifle calibers. thats why i called the p90 a "non bullpup bullpup", because while its good, it doesnt do anything in particular.

Barrel length doesn't really seem to move the needle much and most nations are comfortable with 14-16 inches for standard issue. Maybe that changes if a new caliber is introduced.

>that pccs are somehow too long
Never said that.
>and benefit for a bullpup design
Shorter isn't a benefit?
>while its good, it doesnt do anything in particular
It's a successful PDW for a reason.

shorter isnt really a benefit on already short smgs. shit gets too short.
>its successful for a reason
for its designed purpose (support line pdw) its a failure. instead, it was adopted by counter terrorism police because its was the flagship 5.7mm gun

There's a 308 tavor

That is nothing more than a futuristic POS. You could drop a couple pounds of weight just by losing some plastic.

>Not that user, but if you've ever gotten a chance to shoot one
I have
>the raw fuckability of the ergonomics makes it a total deal breaker. Its unnatural to wield
Disagree, they're super easy to shoot offhand. I'd take a decently made bullpup over an AR for shooting in practical positions.

>unnatural to load
All practice, but even without practice I find them easier to load in the prone position than a conventional rifle.

>unbalanced most of the time
This is a positive, if I'm going to carry the fucking thing for 20 km, I'd rather all the weight be in the buttstock than dangling out at the front where I can't support it as easily. I'd say the biggest advantage of the bullpup is it's weight distribution, which makes handling much easier once you get used to it.

>and just doesnt feel good at all
Disagree obviously, see above

>as well as being literally untenable for left handed shooters.
Exaggeration, but it does complicate things. I'm pretty sure militaries don't want to put up with the headache just for the slight optimization that bullpups give you, when the details of a particular small arm hasn't mattered on the battlefield in over 100 years.

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I was just thinking about that exact fucking gun today...

>Its unnatural to wield, unnatural to load,
Here's the loading drill I've learned for a bullpup.
Assuming you shoot it with your right hand, tilt the rifle to like 30 degrees to the right first, then change your magazine. Its easier to access the magazine that way. When prone you can tilt it all the way and makes it sideways, change your magazine, and continue shooting.

>unbalanced most of the time
Depends on the rifle. I've shot the M16 and SAR-21, they're both front heavy.

>doesn't feel good at all
Spend more time with a bullpup, more practice with the drills. You'll get a feel for it. Most of the time ergonomics complains are more due to people being too used to the AR layout than the actual problem with the bullpup layout.

>being literally untenable for left handed shooters.
Depends on the design. Most of the time you could mirror the design around and it would be a lefty only rifle.

>well the entire mag isnt, and you cant physically put in a short one.
Which is entirely irrelevant to whether it's a bullpup or not.
>the fact thats its an smg and cant be scaled to a rifle caliber is mostly my argument.
It requires a straight wall cartridge, which doesn't preclude scaling up to intermediate power. Case taper is not a necessity.
I know its not going to happen but i hope we're not and instead fielding an LSAT derivative by then.

>Which is entirely irrelevant to whether it's a bullpup or not.
nope
>doesn't preclude scaling up to intermediate power
also nope, due to cartridge length

Less metal and more polymer, yet cost twice as much. And with shit triggers.

I am not susceptible to Jew marketing. Sorry.

Easy. Anyone can do it. Examples:
Weeaboos are perfectly normal people.
Jow Forums isn't full of degenerates and scum of all kinds, from furries to Nazi wannabes.
/ck/ knows its shit about cooking.
Everyone on Jow Forums owns at least one firearm.
Humans are peaceful creatures.
The alphabet soup agencies absolutely will not fuck you every chance they get.
Women make intelligent and logical decisions.
Life for us in this day and age is better than that of our ancestors, disregarding technological difference.

>also nope, due to cartridge length
Taper, not length.

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Bullpup is about the location of the action, and by that token, the location of the magazine feed not the magazine itself. Otherwise if you loaded one of those novelty 100rnd AK mags into a bullpup it'd magically stop being a bullpup because the mag would be in front of the trigger. And you could construct a magazine with the geometry to make a conventional rifle a bullpup.
And both of those cases are retarded because being bullpup is an attribute of the rifle not the magazine.
>cartridge length
Doesn't prevent it.

Kel-Tec offers a .308 bull pup with an actually good trigger.

Bullpups just have a pretty niche scenario in which they excel - namely rapid back and forth between med/long range engagements, entering vehicles, and indoor engagements. There's literally better options for each of those scenarios individually, but if you're going back and forth constantly, then bullpups handle the switching very well. If the future of combat becomes highly urbanized as opposed to largely long/mid range, then bullpups will see another surge. But who wants to prioritize close range engagement? At that point it's easier to just blow a building than to drive up to it and storm it.

Now that’s a thought. I imagine ceaseless ammo would work quite well in a P90 esq mag

1.FAMAS
2.FAMAS
3.FAMAS

>f the future of combat becomes highly urbanized as opposed to largely long/mid range, then bullpups will see another surge

Think shotgats and subguns will make a comeback too?

I sure hope so.

Scattergats, maybe just due to their availability. Subguns absolutely.

The areas in which a bullpup excel are magnified and the drawbacks diminish when used in the context of something very small (P90) or something very big (WA2000, M95, SVU).

P90 style gun in 12 guage? All of my want

You forgot
>itt we pretend we're in the 70's

Subguns were good because they were lighter and cheaper than rifles. Carbines now are almost the same weight and modern SMGs aren't easy open bolt blowbacks anymore. Might as well just use the carbine and be compatible with all the stuff you already have.

folding stocks or SBR's are more useful

So? Who the fuck wants to buy it?