Russian is going to unveil a super heavy IFV armed with 57mm gun at ARMY 2018. The vehicle is part of Armata family

The thing is Russian don't use 35/40mm gun, and the T-15 is a much bigger Vehicle than the Marder and CV90.

>at this point isn't it just a light tank

It is more than 50 tons. It is every thing but light tank.

no matter how good or revolutionary it is russia will never be able to produce enough of them until the country unfucks itself and gets rid of those oligarchs, fucking hell the 90's was a mistake in russia, the state selling all that yummy stuff was their biggest mistake

Fair enough, if you dont have any good modern autocannon why not just slap a large-ass 1950's gun on it and call it the day...

>50 tons
Thats fuckhuge, a CV90 armed with a 120mm gun is like 15 tons lighter, and a T-72/80 is still a few tons below it...

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>skirtless Armata
neat

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>and call it the day...
It fire programmable munition to it is not that dated, but the accuracy is still horrible as every russian auto cannon

It was based on the Armata chassis, so similar to Jew Namer.

The NATO has no chance, is trembling! We have tigers!

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It is interesting that it have shock absorber on both back and front. The tank version only got shock absorber in the front.

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Actually T-14 have shock absorber in the back, but only one.

T-15 have 2 shock absorber have 2 in the back

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It looks ugly but it doesn't look "Russian" you know, interesting.

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Can you guy avoid shitting up the thread with your meme, and having a conversation about AFV?

>can you guy
No we cant into stop, comrade guy.
We'll stop when Putain decides to stop sending vatnik scum to Jow Forums.

>i am the protector of freedom the champion of the people

Good luck try to fit in.

Most Russian don't like how it look. They thing it is too foreign.

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>This wouldn't happen to have anything to do with the us NGCV having a 50mm would it
More likel its the NGCV having better armor along with the rest of the next gen of Western IFVs that's the impetus for the larger gun. Guns compete against enemy armor, not guns after all.

>AU-220M turret with Ataka ATGM.
Kind of let down by the ATGM complement desu. The past Epoch turret has the impressive Kornet for anti-tank use and the ATAKA, while a very good ATGM in its class, is still no Kornet.

>Thing is, it doesnt offer that much more potential over a 35/40mm gun, and reduces how much ammunition you can carry by a huge factor.
I think the commonality factor with Derivatsiya should be stated here. MBTs with their GLATGM capabilities would've been capable of limited anti-air duties and the IFVs should be no exception.

No I'm just a bored troll counter-trolling dumb russians hired for change money to replicate infantile Kremlin propanda.

Though I believe some vatniks really think they are...
>the protector of freedom the champion of the people

Go fuck a tiger.

i really like it, the large size yet lowish weight means it probably makes a lot of use of spaced armour or its got shitloads of composites in it

Sounds like overbuilding. Could probably take some of that extra cost & weight and put two IFV's there instead of one. Unless this reuses tooling from other projects, in which case it's fine.

And the ATGM drop from 4 Kornet to 2 Ataka.

Ataka is super sonic and Kornet is sub sonic.

Now this is shitposting.

I mean skirtless of course, with the skirts it looks cool (but not Russian), except the turret is not very imposing like the Abrams or Leo, but meh, war is not about looking cool anyway.

roar

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>everyone i disagree with is hired by governments to troll me
so this is what it's like to have schizophrenia

I am 100% serious. If it was a great concept it would alredy be widespread, considering 57mm guns has existed for the past 70 years.

>The vehicle is part of Armata family.
oh so its cancelled already?

Just report them for baiting outside /b/ /flaming/ low quality posts

Unveil yes
Use no
Russia has too little money to do anything anymore
Very suprising it hasen't balkanized yet

You are dong god's work there.

>negative comment about Russia or russian get responded with the manditory and overused "you are a schizo" respond
Wish i would get a dollar every time i see that. Could pling with that money til the end of the world.

Imagine a detached turreted getting dragged along on the parade, sparks and asphalt spraying everywhere.

You are doing god's work there.

>Unveil yes
>Use no
>Russia has too little money to do anything anymore
>Very suprising it hasen't balkanized yet
simple. they are that good at spending money. for chump change they got their puppet inside the white house lol.
nytimes.com/2017/09/06/technology/facebook-russian-political-ads.html

A CV90 with a 120mm gun doesn't carry dismounts either.

>NGCV exist only on paper and it is not a heavy IFV.
pic related
>puppet inside the white house
For a puppet, he's done very little to actually help Russia in any way:
>Gave more aid and sent lethal arms to Ukraine
>Showed no signs of leaving Syria
>Cajoling Eurofaggots into spending more money on NATO
>Upholding sanctions and increasing oil exports

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Except its not a negative comment about russia. Its just shitposting. If you call everyone you disagree with a troll sent by the government to bait you you're basically describing gangstalking which is a common thing in schizophrenics. Dont act like a schizophrenic, dont get called one.

Fair enough, its at least not marketed as such, that would be kinda pointless. No clue if it actually can carry troops tho

okay vatnigger

You're unbelievably dense.
It's a next gen concept that wasn't developed until now. It's closest analogue is the Namer which is an excellent APC. 57mm will shred anything but a MBT frontally, even then causing severe damage to the sensors/ orifices.

>It's a next gen concept that wasn't developed until now.
but thats wrong. germany already did it.

>They thing it is too foreign.
Of course they do, they have never seen a modern tank/IFV that wasn't foreign.

lets just be realistic here, none of these actions have seriously hurt Russia.

>Russia's goal in Ukraine was to destabilize the nation so that it couldn't move further into NATO / the EU's sphere of influence
>American influence in Syria mostly a spoiler, no realistic threat to Russian interests has existed since Obama held off on a full intervention
>Limited "cajooling" has actually happened, most European nations were on target to meet NATO spending targets by their deadline (also excludes the fact that our military spending in NATO is incredibly advantageous)
>sanctions have been proven to have limited impact on Russia's policy or well being for years

Your explanations only work work if you don't know a fucking thing.

Oh so they'll be buying more t90 and bmp then, ok thanks mate

And an actually good 35/40mm autocannon will do that too, Russia is just to poor/shitty to actually develop one.

>For a puppet, he's done very little to actually help Russia in any way:
Not directly, no. The Russians are way too smooth of an operator to get caught. No instead they are betting all on the Donald wrecking the world order keeping the US on top.

>>Gave more aid and sent lethal arms to Ukraine
he gave a measly $200 million in nonlethal aid compared to the $5 billion democracy funding and at least a $1 billion aid directly from the US, plus IMF loans. why lie?

>>Showed no signs of leaving Syria
And utterly fucked up relations with Turkey, you know, that oh so important keeper of the Bosphorus and holder of the second largest standing army in NATO - right into the hands of Russia.

>>Cajoling Eurofaggots into spending more money on NATO
You're actually holding on to these pledges? Its not as if politicians say all sorts of shit whenever its convenient for them and just as easily drop those words later on when its just as convenient. Wait hang on I've got a bridge to sell you in your locale...

>>Upholding sanctions and increasing oil exports
Which had the retarded effect of forcing people to look into alternatives to the dollar and isolating themselves from the US. Great plan there bud.

>okay vatnigger
Ok, actual nigger.

>he gave a measly $200 million in nonlethal aid compared to the $5 billion democracy funding and at least a $1 billion aid directly from the US, plus IMF loans. why lie?
Why call me a liar when you could conduct a simple google search?
rferl.org/a/javelin-missile-delivery-ukraine-us-confirmed/29200588.html
>And utterly fucked up relations with Turkey, you know, that oh so important keeper of the Bosphorus and holder of the second largest standing army in NATO - right into the hands of Russia.
Relations with Turkey were going south ever since their """""""""""Coup""""""""""" attempt. Erdogan has been purging everyone even remotely secular and pro-NATO from the military and civil services, and acting more and more antagonistic towards their allies every day. Also, second largest doesn't mean second best.

Now you get to explain how sanctions on Russia, arming Ukraine, emasculating Russia in Syria with two seperate missile strikes, prodding NATO to spend more on defense etc etc help Russia.

>Russia has too little money to do anything anymore
Dude, that 57mm module is a commercial product for a commercial sales. "Russia" here is not "Russian MoD", it's a "Russian company".

>57mm will shred anything but a MBT frontally
IIRC, those 57mm cannons are (relatively) low-velocity.

>Trump was president when Edrogen decided to do the middle east authoritarian thing

>pic related

A test piece of a new aluminum welding method?

Im not even russian, lol. I dont even care about russia, shitpost all you want. Im just saying you're fucking delusional

They don't help Russia, but as policies meant to hurt Russia and somehow exonerate Trump from the obvious collusion that existed at some level, they're fucking worthless.

As you actually study statecraft, you will quickly learn that there is a very large gap between "help," and "hinder." Most of these policies are so poorly construed and ineffective that you could make a solid argument that they were put in place to give the appearance of something being done.

>emasculating Syria
>missile strikes that were recovered from in a matter of days or weeks
>still going on the strikes when they did nothing to address the lower-tech methods the Assad regime is using to carry out said war crimes

lmao

>Why call me a liar when you could conduct a simple google search?
>rferl.org/a/javelin-missile-delivery-ukraine-us-confirmed/29200588.html
That's way less than what Obama gave the Ukrainians, the dude who wasn't tough on Putin. Sending token Javelins that may or may not be in KBP Tula by now doesn't compare to the many billions Obama sent as well as solid political and diplomatic cover he gave the junta there.

>Relations with Turkey were going south ever since their """""""""""Coup""""""""""" attempt. Erdogan has been purging everyone even remotely secular and pro-NATO from the military and civil services, and acting more and more antagonistic towards their allies every day.
You act as if tyrannical despots don't have a room in your clique. Face it, you lost, and for no good reason.
>Also, second largest doesn't mean second best.
They just have to be strong enough to beat your regional vassals.

>token Javelins
They aren't token, they're one of the main things that Ukraine has wanted, along with artillery detection radar.
>Face it, you lost, and for no good reason
>Erdogan has been purging everyone even remotely secular and pro-NATO
Did you even read what I just said? It's obvious to anyone paying attention that Erdogan wants to leave the EU/NATO camp overpower the rest of the region.
>They just have to be strong enough to beat your regional vassals.
Well, they can't. Also You haven't actually explained to us why Trump is a Russian puppet.

>They aren't token, they're one of the main things that Ukraine has wanted, along with artillery detection radar.
And these guys thank you for the gifts:
youtu.be/Ph583Q-2Mfo?t=361
>Did you even read what I just said? It's obvious to anyone paying attention that Erdogan wants to leave the EU/NATO camp overpower the rest of the region.
Erdogan was pulling the same shit of playing any side he can for his benefit for as long he was in power.
>Well, they can't.
But they can. I said vassals, not overlord so Israel doesn't count.

Also You haven't actually explained to us why Trump is a Russian puppet.
You have more than enough people paid on a professional capacity trying to do just that. Not my fault you're being wilfully ignorant at this point.

>And these guys thank you for the gifts:
You were literally just talking about how Obama sending them shit was a good thing, as compared to Trump not doing enough.Stick to one story you smoothbrained dipshit.
>Erdogan was pulling the same shit of playing any side he can for his benefit for as long he was in power.
No, he wasn't. This misbehaving shit has ratcheted up since he pulled off his fake coup, the only options now are either to cut ties or have an actual CIA coup. Hopefully option 2 is picked.
>But they can
No, Turkey cannot beat the GCC.
>I said vassals, not overlord so Israel doesn't count
Epic, I bet that got you a lot of upvotes on Jow Forums didn't it?
>Not my fault you're being wilfully ignorant at this point
No. What actions has trump taken that are pro-Russia? Zero.

>That's way less than what Obama gave the Ukrainians

Obama gave Ukraine no lethal aid.

Neither the Bofors 57mm or the Russian 57mm gun are low velocity.

well before there was no need for it, the 57mm still can't pen an mbt and a 30mm could pen an ifv so why bother? today many ifv can bounce a 30mm gun.

>somehow exonerate Trump from the obvious collusion

The only obvious collusion is the Clinton campaign paying a British spy to source slander from Russian intelligence officers.

Russia can announce whatever they want. They don't the money to buy new stuff in meaningful quantities.

Sure, but they're not going to mass produce it because its too expensive. They're just revealing all these wunderweapons to make themselves look strong but they lack the budget to get them to combat units in significant numbers.
thediplomat.com/2018/08/russia-will-not-mass-produce-t-14-armata-main-battle-tank/

Both cases are true. Trump and Clinton were both overwhelmingly shitty people who bent (and likely broke) the rules in order to get a job they would be overwhelmingly shitty at. This bad guy / good guy duality is fucking tiresome and should have been abandoned once you turned 15.

Clinton paying for dirt does not change the fact that the Trump campaign knowingly met with Russian representatives, nor does it change the fact that Russian intelligence officials have been indicted by Mueller based off compelling computer-forensic evidence, and that American nationals are likely to be the next ones caught up in the investigation.

Toyota Killer

bang bam poo!

It's an AFV actually. It carries infantry inside.

>thediplomat

impressive

>mueller
>compelling evidence

You should pick one, seeing as how Mueller and his lackeys like Rosenstein, Brennan, Comey, etc within the intelligence community have continuously made contradicting claims, are connected to dubious sources, and have yet to prove for certain that Russia colluded with Trump. But considering you're debating on Jow Forums perhaps you have the time to provide reputable links to prove these claims?

Btw, Why the fuck is this debate going on in the first place? Take this shit to Jow Forums, so this thread can't be derailed any further.

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Max kek

>calls people dense
>while having zero ideo what he’s talking about
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AZP_S-60
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bofors_57_mm_L/70_naval_artillery_gun

You mean something else that isn't going to end serial production?

>cant afford armata
>tries to develop a new IFV anyway
Russia cant into priorities

But they have the cash to spare:
nasdaq.com/article/russia-sees-budget-surplus-from-tax-hike--finmin-20180709-00091

Derivatsiya is also presented this year.

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Mk 3 57s are god tier

t. guy that works on em.

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kek'd

i dont know senpai
it still doesn't make sense for them to try to develop a new weapon system even with this supposed budget surplus when they cant even afford the one they just made headlines with both for its ability and the fact they cant afford it

>i dont know senpai
>it still doesn't make sense for them to try to develop a new weapon system even with this supposed budget surplus when they cant even afford the one they just made headlines with both for its ability and the fact they cant afford it
Then what are the scientists and engineers supposed to do? Drink moonshine till they pass out? Much better to run R&D projects and wait for much better econmic conditions for serial production. In the meantime they can export simplified variants that pay for the program itself. That's how the Russians were eventually able to afford much of their stuff like the T-90(development and rehabiliation of UVZ payed for by the many orders of T-90/72), Pantsirs, the Su-30 series, Kilos, etc.

in fact this has been a trend and im starting to wonder if they are just doing this for publicity at this point.
they did the same damn thing with the SU-57
>russian spends huge sums of money on weapons project
>bold claims that it would destroy or outperform any of its NATO and especially the US's equivalent
>end up only buying less 30 or so of them
>choose not to mass produce it and quietly sweep it under the rug
>unveil new project

this is why no-one takes Russia seriously anymore and if it weren't for the nukes nobody would care

It is just an anti aircraft guy, the PKMT is just for show.

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Anti aircraft gun with APS, who could have thought.

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Another cancelled project. How many will be built. 3? 4?

Yeah no. They never cancelled these projects, but merely delayed acquisition. Quite a normal thing in fact for modern weapons programs all over the planet nowadays.

Who know.

But the BMP-3 with the same gun look cool as hell.

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>says they are suspending production
>they also state they are shifting focus to 6th gen
>they also state the pak-fa will be an export bird.

Does not take a rocket scientist to connect the dots.

so whos the bigger paper tiger at this point?
Russia or China?

>But the BMP-3 with the same gun look cool as hell.
Ironically the original BMP-3 was developed from a light tank project, so with the 57 mm gun its pretty much a return to form.

>>says they are suspending production
as the 2nd stage engines and much of the newer tech would need time to actualize and refine themselves.
>>they also state they are shifting focus to 6th gen
He hasn't said that. Stop inventing shit. Point me where in the GPV where the sixth generation fighter is funded in place of Su-57.
>>they also state the pak-fa will be an export bird.
As is every Russian bird except the Tupolev bombers. Nobody but you are saying it will only be bought by export customers.

>Does not take a rocket scientist to connect the dots.
And that's how you are consistently wrong in everything - program management isn't something as simple as tracing the goddamn dots you imbecile.

Probably China
they have more money for modernization but their military is inexperienced and poorly trained, especially outside the most loyal units
Russia has only a few projects cooking but the non-conscripts know how to use their 80's-90's tier stuff well

i love new vatnik mental gymnastic form
>stupid vesternpig, we will have billion x by tomorrow xoxoxoxoxoxo

>They

Who they? The only guy spouting his mouth is Borisov and he does not have a say in the procurement.

>i love new vatnik mental gymnastic form
a pity your subhuman brain can't even find more than the 2 brain cells needed for a reply beyond "vatnik - buzzwords"

China

Think this way, russia is a turd of corn, still shitty but with the occasional lump of corn to give at least some form and rigidity to withstanding a little bit of squeeze. China is just watery diarrhea, falls apart immediately and doesn't withstand even the stress

Before someone accuse me of being delusional burger, squeezing either is bad idea because both still leaves you with shit on your hand, see?

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