How come soldiers pre-gunpowder didn't get PTSD when the fighting was so much more brutal and personal?

Of course they did, but there were no psychologists back then to study the issue and historians and other social commentators weren't particularly interested in documenting the mental trauma of former soldiers when they could write about all those soldiers' military achievements and how great their civilization was instead.

My baseless speculation is that war back then consisted mostly of unexciting marching and sieges with pitched battles being relatively rare events, while war today involves much more frequent combat and being subjected to gunfire and explosions for prolonged periods of time.

There was a report somewhere that as the time between combat increased the more prevalent we saw PTSD. For instance soldiering for 2-3 years on one campaign with a few large engagements gave men more time to process the stress. Compare that to seeing action everyday in a very mobile war like Vietnam or constant shelling and anxiety in the the trenches of WWI.
TLDR; As warfare became more constant so did the stress and PTSD.
Really wish I knew the name of the study it was a pretty good readn

This is fairly accurate.

They probably did. However, modern warfare makes you more susceptible to PTSD. Most soldiers in ancient battles only fought in a handful of battles, otherwise they just did a lot of marching, building, and camping, which isn't particularly stressful.

Modern warfare means that you can get into a life or death firefight at any time, which leads to more stress over a longer period of time. The more stress the more likely you are to develop PTSD.

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fucking kek

PTSD in itself may have not existed but we have pretty detailled accounts of people from ancient/medieval/modern battlefield coming back to their home changed, made more prone to violence or alcohool, it is actually something that is studied more and more by anthropologist along with historians. The most recent study that I have read was about the french Infernal columns, most of their veterans suffered a heavy mental toll from all the atrocities they committed in Vendée, Italy and Algeria during their career, but because their society was much more "virile" a man displaying violent behavior was seen as the norm and not noted.

PULLO! SINGLE FORMATION!

Most of the issues vets face from OIF/OEF are from overexposure to being in a combat zone. Some up to 15 months continuous deployment, that means NO REAR to escape to decompress, no BOOZE, no WHORES, none of that. The best you'll get for the rear is a FOB, that will probably get mortared or rocketed, but you can buy shit at Greenbeans, refit, get your Humvees worked on, then get back to your OP/sector. This government has no clue what the effects are long term, nor short term on people being over stimulated and being left for so long in a sector where you can't distinguish good from bad, and the Grey line is blurry as shit. Then they come home to a country that doesn't understand fuckall, not only how much time they spent on the ground over there, but a country that doesn't understand what it's like to have to readjust from two very different lifestyles, and constantly passes judgement over them.

TL; DR: Just read it

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There’s a school of thought, too, that suggests that in previous wars, when soldiers came home by troopship, they had a period of weeks to slowly “depressurise” from combat theatres to back to normality in the company of like individuals. Whereas 72 hours worth of air travel and your back to Kimmy the former stripper asking you to change diapers and demanding to know why you haven’t repainted the drywall is a lot for a psyche to process

*you’re

Fucking phoneposting

>Kimmy the former stripper asking you to change diapers and demanding to know why you haven’t repainted the drywall

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read on killing. it pretty much breaks all of this down for you barney style

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Came here just to say this.
On Killing by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
He explains the answer to your question in such simple terms that my 6 year old (at the time) brother was able to understand it.

They did, they just called it different names

That's actually a good point I've heard mentioned before as well, but speaking personally many of my problems didn't start until after my second tour and the more I tried to adapt back to civilian life(work, school, building relationships, not doing SKETCHY shit, not being weird or paranoid), the harder it became. It's like trying to tread water with your hands/feet tied, you no longer understand even the most basic institutions and interactions that your peers can navigate with ease. Then people are constantly comparing you to their POG uncle from WWII who probably never even shot his rifle, OL UNCLE LEROY WAS IN DUBYA DUBYA TWO and he didn't have any problems! Being under the spotlight doesn't help people already suffering from paranoia, now for me personally 8 years and 2 tours later, a combat zone is normal to me, mentally, and this life whatever the fuck it is, is as foreign to me as Baghdad or Peshawar would be to you guys. Not trying to make a sap story, just adding my 2 cents but I'd never fucking do it again, that I can tell you. I want to no longer be a combat vet, but that shit will probably always be with me, that's without even touching so called "moral injury" or injuries of ethics

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Because it was fucken glorious to kill back in those times.

because the book was fucking wrong if you do like 2 seconds of thinking

^This!

Hahaahha

>Uncle Leeroy comparisons

That shit is fucked. Irrespective of circumstance or what either he or you might have experienced, using someone else as a proxy for “why aren’t you perfectly adjusted to civilian life” is intellectually dishonest as well as a dick move.

they werent a bunch of lil pussy ass bitches like modern men are

How many thousand times do we have to have this stupid ass thread? Why can't people like you be banned for being obvious underageb&

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They did though. The difference is after their service they fucked off into the countryside for the rest of their lifes to tend to a farm so they never actually clashed with society like vets do nowm

I'm not a vet, but I've always been confused when vets say they have trouble adapting to civilian life. You were a civilian for 18~ years before you signed up, right? It just seems very strange that spending a comparatively short period of time in a warzone can make it so difficult to go back to living life the way you did for nearly two decades.

Conditioning, then that conditioning coming undone, lack of trust, lack of trust in groups, inability to be in public for extended periods, TBI, there's really a number of different problems that cause issues with adjistment. You can sort of feel like a bad organ transplant in the wrong body, but yah I dunno.

That makes sense. I work in a call center and am mentally breaking down. The constant barrage is killing. Being screamed at isn't bad when you think about it. Doing it for 10 hours straight with 2 20 minutes and a 45 minute lunch make it unbearable.

>yelled at daily as kid so didn't have the slightest problem working in a call center
>all of the people would yell at me until they realized it wasn't working and then they'd stop
>tfw everyone else would take fucking crying breaks or would just be generally miserable

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And all the disease and malnutrition. It's not really that people looked 80 when they were 40, it's just that if you cut yourself and got tetnus or got the flu or cancer or had a stroke or any number of other things that can be dealt with relatively easily by modern medicine, you were probably toast.

Ancient battles were short in duration and limited in length. If you were going into battle you knew when. You knew at dawn you would march to the field and it would be over by sunset. At worst it might continue for a few days. Then you'd have weeks or months of downtime where you knew you were safe until the next battle. Modern battles can break out anytime anywhere. No soldier is ever safe on deployment and they can't relax. They can be hit from any direction by enemies and weapons they can't see. They are in constant stress 24/7 and never get a chance to be safe or relax. That unknown factor increases the stress a thousand times over what ancient man experienced.

I havent cried in the two years i've been doing it. Seen plenty of grpwn men and a few vets fo it.

I have to make sales while being yelled at, it's not fun, also we're judged on how many escalated calls we get. Its all a shit show.

Because it being much more personal makes it much more mentally easy to bear.

why are you breaking down? is it just the yelling or something else too?

They did. It was called other names like shell shock or cowardice, and some were executed for having it.

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>shellshock
>pre-gunpowder
What was in the shells that were giving the soldiers shock before gunpowder? A bunch of a court midget jesters who jumped out and said "BOO!"?

Knights , that say NEEE

Because men didnt cry about their feelings back in the day. They weren't raised by 70 years of feminist lies that convinced them their masculinity is evil and needs to checked and controled and that its ok to cry etc etc. They went to war and probably enjoyed themselves. Everyone died young in those days. Having a couple of years of excitement, travel and violence plus a nice uniform and 3 square a day was worth it.

Besides these points I also believe they had a better support system for soldiers returning from battle
you had the church, a close knit community, families that tended to stay together

Really it was how culturally acceptable it was to sperg out and beat the shit out of your wife and children for no reason.

Most likely even longer.

Kek
But if you can filter all the shit away he has a lot of good points.

seeker.com/medieval-knights-may-have-had-ptsd-1765567422.html
thetemplarknight.com/2016/01/04/did-medieval-knights-suffer-from-post-traumatic-stress/
sciencenordic.com/violent-knights-feared-posttraumatic-stress
dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2923799/Did-ancient-warriors-suffer-PTSD-Texts-reveal-battles-3-000-years-ago-left-soldiers-traumatised-saw.html
militaryhistorynow.com/2012/09/17/walking-wounded-ptsd-from-ancient-greece-to-afghanistan/

Daily reminder that OP is a faggot

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FPBP
just think of how many times we have given it different names in the last hundred years

It's true though. It would be more realistic to say 60.

Stop no longer wanting it. I'm trying to get back in because I stupidly got out thinking I'd have lots waiting for me and I don't have a god damned thing. The military was the closest thing I've ever had to a family. I'm done with civvy life. Millennials are not worth getting close to. Gen z is too young, and genx/ boomers are getting too old to want to do anything. They can have their normie life. It's the same crap over and over wherever you go

Soldiers were free drink, chew, snort any kind of chemicals that helped them cope. Most of them were shitfaced in battle.

And the pillaging rights!

Because young minds are impressionable. Young soldiers undergo an indoctrination program that's with most of us for life. While on active duty, especially when deployed, you are to a degree cutoff from what everyone else is doing. You miss movies. You miss other trendy things people do. They bond while you're away and when you get back, it's a new environment. Not to mention lots of people who go in in the first place don't come from the same cookie cutter most normie do. For an example, go back to a neighborhood you used to love in but haven't been to in about 4 years

You fucks are mentally weak, did a tour in afghan and yeah it sucked but being back to civie life is easy as fuck. I always hear ‘I’m always on edge! I’m thinking about ied’s when I’m driving!’ Just chill the fuck out, what’s done is done your home and not in a war zone. If your having a hard time get a normal job and routine or just go back to the forces if you can’t handle regular life.

Theirs a book about this called "Achilles in Vietnam."

Brandon2495/Brandon F. On YouTube made a video a while back about it. It did happen it's just not covered a lot and the video got deleted for showing a less than 5 second scene from Barry Lyndon.

-years of excitement
Time in pre Victorian military service was for the scum of the earth, you get paid shit, and are more likely to die of illness than in combat. The only guys who would somewhat enjoy themselves were officers. The field officers still went through the horrible shit the enlisted men went though. The Prussian Army had a doctrine of not establishing camps near woods due to men deserting. Desertion was extremely common for the various German auxiliies sent to the colonies during the rev war. Plus not only are they in East bumblefuck and have no idea what's where, they barely even are able to bury their dead. And other times (like in Bennington) the dead are beheaded by Bubba's great great grandfather. It was hell for them.

Even in the ancient times ambushes and unexpected battles did occur. Famous cases are Battle of Teutoburg forest, which came as suprise to the romans and Battle of Cynoscephalae where a small skirmish turned into large scale battle. The latter has a written record of the commander of the roman army telling that he would still see the macedonian phalanx coming over the hill in his dreams.

Drug abuse during colonial and later american warfare was limited, but blue ball (opium) was basically given out at hospital. Opium addiction was not caused by guys getting high, it was due to it being given out too much by medics.

After the rev war lots of vets had very little to absolutely no money and they drunk themselves to death. Only a few managed to find charity from churches or private societies, and those are the ones that are mostly heard about which leads to the misconception of social networks helping them.

I said nothing about it sucking over there. All I said is that some people aren't cut out for civvies like. As for getting back in? Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Next, could you tell me the color of the sky? You seem to have all the answers

Just take your time, dude. You've done your duty. I'm sure eventually you'll get used to civ life again.

I highly doubt that there were big enough bombardments to cause shell shock before gun powder.

suck it up babycakes

This. PTSD is very well documented throughout history.

It was called the sword shakes back then.

WTF is happening in this webm

My view why contemporary vets have a hard time with PTSD compared to ancient fighters

>Ancient fighters did have emotional trauma due to wars, just went by a different name
>Their society was more based more around war and survival compared to today (essentially all men had probably been in a life or death situation before due to the necessity of having an immediate use army, compared to today where we have a volunteer force with a small amount of infantry and a shit ton of rear echelon)
>Back then (even 60 years ago) a large amount of our population was rural, where you had to hunt for supper and injuries and death was fairly common due to a lack of modern medicine, compared to today where mom and dad would get supper from Safeway and if a fever got scary you could go to the hospital

>Type of battles. In ancient times, they would be probably pitched battles with extended length of time for marching, and where it was arrows and cuts with swords against probably some hungry barbarians with cheaper metal. Compared to today where we have artillery/explosives used by both sides where guys can literally be turned into piles of meat.

>Contstant fighting: back then it was manouver and manouver where both sides would send superior forces against weak forces, rock paper scissors style, with time in between where you know you would meet the enemy. Today we have constant threats of being bombed by civilians and constantly needing to be on patrol to hold territory from the enemy, where they can constantly be firing on your position.

>Travel time: back then you would fight and then march for several weeks back home with the same guys you fought with and return to a house where your wife knows what you went through due to all males in her family having gone through that and also having to kill something for dinner, and where all the guys you meet were likely to have experienced something similar. Today, you go from being mortared and pot shotted/IED to being in home in 72 H

A lot of modern historians believe Alexander the Great suffered from PTSD and the death of Hephestian drove him over the edge. The Macedonians were really really big on drinking. So much so that people would often die at symposiums. But in addition to this, accounts of PTSD would be chalked off at the time as being a result of drinking, but we know better now. From Roman accounts of captured Macedon prisoners we know they were horrified to see dismembered bodies. Mainly since loss of limbs in traditional Greek warfare was pretty rare, the Metatron brefily covers how dismembering of limbs happened during the Roman-Macedon war.

yeah it was called being a pussy

t.someone who's never killed anyone

I'm sure you've considered working as a private contractor?

It's a documentation gap. The condition started being recorded with the advent of Psychology and Sociology.

Not in the Roman Army. They took clean health *very* seriously, and drunk/disorderly conduct was punished by crucifixion.

niggers and arabs arent people so i guess you're right.

How was meps, bro? Sorry you never got further.

they did

durring the victorian era they had lots of returning soilders they knew they would be a problem so when they were comming back they were sent to guarding jobs out side of the main cities

The average soldier wasn't literate until WW1. As a result, previous accounts of war would be written by commanders or chroniclers viewing the battle from afar. They would usually be either very sterile or romanticized, and provide very little insight into the experience of the average soldier.

Another reason is that European armies grew as gunpowder was more widely adopted. Medieval warfare was typically waged by professional soldiers - knights (landed elite) and mercenaries who spend most of their time training and fighting, and so they probably got a little more used to violence than the average peasant. Medieval warfare was also typically less violent in a way, because knights would try to capture their enemy to get a ransom, since they were mostly landed elites. When gunpowder weapons became popular, the average peasant was flung into war en masse, and since then armies have been mostly comprised of average people who typically aren't used to killing. The US army did a study after WW2 and found that only 25% of its infantry were shooting at the enemy to kill. Most were not shooting directly at the enemy, because most people don't want to kill and so when they kill, it haunts them.

Because they were dead.

Veterans with severe PTSD were sent to mental hospitals or were lobotomized during the Victorian era and even some vets were lobotomized after ww2

As many have stated already, they did. A better question would probably be, if soldiers in ancient wars and battles suffered more or less traumatic experiences than soldiers in modern conflicts.

Typical weeb poster. Knows zero percent of a subject, too dumb to know they don't know, shit posts anyway, will claim they were trolling when they get called out .

Falling asleep while on guard duty would result in execution. Mostly stabbed in the back of the neck. Loss of gear would result in execution or decimation of a unit. The idiot who said they got drunk in combat doesn't know shit

amazon.com/Killing-Psychological-Cost-Learning-Society/dp/0316040932/

amazon.com/What-Like-War-Karl-Marlantes/dp/0802145922/

These are good reads. It also mentions that Soldiers where given a welcome when coming home, and it was easier for them to fold back into society, rather than just being spat on by some fucking hippies

What is this film?

WW1 US vets had a higher rate of PTSD than Vietnam ones. They had parades, it didnt help the ones with it. welcomes don't equal recovery

Made me chuckle

fpbp

>what is the Iliad

>Spend 12 months in an environment where any piece of trash could be an IED, any civi walking past could be suicide bomber, any glint of light could be a rifle scope and any friendly could turn on you.

Add to that, that when you leave the place is just as fucked up as when you arrived making the whole ordeal pointless.

>T. Armchair General

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Ayyy
Who else Rome here

Because getting drunk, fucking whores and beating up your wife were excepted back then.

I remember watching an interview with a Vietnam vet who said everytime he brought up possibly having PTSD around his friends they'd tell him 'you're fine just have another beer', so he'd wind up getting black out drunk every night in order to be able to sleep.