The US Air Force has been holding a competition for a new "light attack" aircraft: old fashioned prop-driven airplanes, meant to be used to bomb and strafe shit on the ground.
youtube.com
What does Jow Forums think about this?
The US Air Force has been holding a competition for a new "light attack" aircraft: old fashioned prop-driven airplanes...
Logan Nelson
Isaac Reed
About fucking time people realized you don't need to blow hundreds of thousands of dollars for each sortie in a low intensity theater.
Isaiah Evans
It’s a good idea and the AT-6 should be selected regardless of any slight performance differences assuming that it works properly.
Caleb Hall
>the at-6 must be choosen even if it's shit
Adrian Reed
Super huecano is gay and they should just be using OV-10s.
Landon Thomas
>OV-10
They got entered into the competition but were eliminated.
Dominic Carter
Turboprop engine in A-1 Skyraider airframes.
Or double down on the freedom and fit the airframes with Pratt and Whitney R4360's.
Cameron Green
They finished the competition years ago, the Super Tucano won. It should already be in service, but those butthurt fags at Beechcraft have been holding everything up with appeals, even though their shitty plane is demonstrably inferior and is totally unproven.
Even if we didn't care about actual effectiveness, and just wanted a meme plane, that meme plane would either have to be the OV-10 like said, or it would have been the Air Tractor AT-802, because it kinda looks like an IL-2 Sturmovik.
Juan Russell
it was one of the first planes to lose the competition,just to show how shit it is.
Carter Reed
And yet when they were tested in the real life middle east they did fine. Turns out you don't need much to drop dumb bombs on mud huts.
Logan Fisher
Piper did do something similar with P-51s... pic related, PA-48 Enforcer.
Mason Hill
en.wikipedia.org
Did you forget about this?
Aiden Price
How did a bunch of monkeys manage to glue together a decent attack plane?
Ian Davis
>Turns out you don't need much to drop dumb bombs on mud huts.
You may not NEED much, but it's not unreasonable to ask for the best within what you're willing to spend on it.
Easton Mitchell
our monkey plane BTFO'd your 56% paper plane.
Jayden Reed
You're still a monkey >:(
Tyler Thomas
>Let's give insurgents a better chance of shooting down and capturing our pilots for propaganda purposes
What could go wrong?
Colton Hill
Congrats, you made something that wasn’t societal legislation to shit in your own streets
Parker Reyes
The performance of the AT-6 and A-29 is nearly identical.
Jeremiah Scott
>What could go wrong?
People thinking low and slow is a thing.
Nathaniel Edwards
If the performance is identical then they probably took a look at other things to judge them on that don't have to do with performance. Like cost per unit, cost to operate, availability of spare parts, etc. etc.
Or they just decided that since the Tucano has two built-in .50 cals and the Wolverine doesn't, they gave it to the Tucano.
Jason Jenkins
Should have kept the super tweet
Anthony Hall
are we bringing back prop sky battles
Oliver Sullivan
To say, actually having guns is a good idea, with drones becoming so fucking common and all. Other than that, airborne .50cal is a good way to pepper enemy position at virtually no cost if only to annoy the hajis&co. It's only so bad that everyone and their goats in the middle-east have access to HMGs, but that never stopped Kiowa pilots so I don't see why it would stop turboprop fuckery.
Ryan Edwards
Nah. If an enemy plane/drone ever makes it into the air I would imagine the prop-driven birds run away and the jets get called out.
Chase Thompson
>.50cal is a good way to pepper enemy position at virtually no cost if only to annoy the hajis&co. It's only so bad that everyone and their goats in the middle-east have access to HMGs, but that never stopped Kiowa pilots so I don't see why it would stop turboprop fuckery.
I'm no expert on the matter but I would imagine a plane with a .50cal has an easier time shooting stuff on the ground, than a .50cal on the ground can shoot even a prop-driven plane out of the air.
Aiden Russell
How hard would it be for an AT6 to have gun pods since it doesn't have built-in .50 cals, and how would they affect performance and ability to carry other ordnance?
Benjamin Brown
They haven't given it to either aircraft yet. If it goes to the A-29 I suspect it will be because it's mean as a way to partner will smaller allied airforces. Also we are only buying ~20 planes.
Easton Diaz
As long as the pilot doesn't 'buzz' his target repeatedly, they would be relatively safe. At a downward angle, with good ranging, 50cal would probably be pretty effective. It's no GAU8 but it'll do pretty damn fine against towelheads.
Landon Rogers
It wouldn't bother when APKWS are an alternative.
Noah Phillips
>strafe shit on the ground
If the enemy isn't going to have reliable anti-air, why not make a small, light plane with a belly mounted ball turret that can just loiter around, circling battlefields while the gunner just sprays at soft targets, and then have a nose mounted autocannon and/or wing mounted bombs/missiles for hard targets?
Gabriel Nelson
mfw we might as well use WW2 tech because all our current enemies are cave-dwelling retards with Soviet milsurp. Carpet-bombing the Taliban with modernized B-17s when?
Brandon Sullivan
We've already got something like that.
Jace Anderson
Bring back the Mustangs!
... and the Iowas.
Oliver Green
The AC-130 isn't exactly small and fast though, and it's guns are broadside mounted, which (marginally) less flexible than a ball turret in terms of how much area it can cover at a time
Michael Thompson
>He doesn't have 6 forward facing .50s
Ryder Morris
>bringing back prop planes
based
Jackson Stewart
Turkish Hürkuş-C COIN aircraft.
There is a naval model too. A total of 40 aircraft on order now.
Quite a machine with 5.5 hours flight time, FLIR and guided missiles.
Nolan Ramirez
>putting a cannon on the side of plane
god it must suck to be a yuropoor, I love america
Adam Garcia
>>prop based attack aircraft
Planning for the last war again.
Owen Jones
>... and the Iowas.
Liam Garcia
In case you didn't notice, we're kind of up against a bunch of sand monkeys with AKs living out of caves. Not the massive military powers we were worried about during the cold war.
Gabriel Morales
We're poor little lambs who have lost our way
Baa, baa, baa
Lincoln Lopez
the US bombed a russian "mercenary" armored column attacking a US special operations team earlier this year.
tell me again how the next war is going to definitely be COIN and 100% not highside, either in a Iran, NK, South China Sea/Strait of Taiwan, or Russia acting the fool in Syria scenario?
Aiden Robinson
>the US bombed a russian "mercenary" armored column attacking a US special operations team earlier this year.
Sounds like a low intensity operation to me.
>tell me again how the next war is going to definitely be COIN and 100% not highside, either in a Iran, NK, South China Sea/Strait of Taiwan, or Russia acting the fool in Syria scenario?
Because none of the nations with big armies really want to go to war with each other anymore. Everybody's figured out that it's bad for business and so we'd rather just wag our dicks at each other on the world stage instead of ever declaring war on each other ever again.
Caleb Brown
Of course not. Nobody is suggesting using props on an all out war between nations with modern AA defenses.
Henry Sullivan
>implying Haji's are even close to matching the kind of opposition vintage props used to overcome back in the day.
it takes more than big guns to bring down birds manned by properly trained pilots. Your average AA system in the ME in the hands of the expected opposition are those swiveling 23mms.
Brody Cooper
>super tucano is superior
>has gravity feed fuel line and cant fly inverted
Stfu if you actually have no clue what youre talking about.
Kevin White
maybe it would be low-intensity if we weren't in a SAM MEZ the entire time. only the fact that they were "mercenaries" and not "Kremlin proxies" prevented the SAM from lighting us up and escalating
and if you know anything from history, it's that it's when a little thing snowballs that you end up with the next conflict. i mean jesus we killed Russians, that could have ended up with us shooting down Flankers and trying to take out SA-20s right quick.
the next fight isn't the time that you realize you need to have bought more fighters
Gavin Hall
>strafing ground targets
Go full Hawker Hurricane MkIIb on it.
Mount 12 50 cals on it
John Turner
Just because some prop attackers to be used in low intensity scenerios are acquired doesn't mean the entire fleet of fast movers and bombers gets kicked out of service.
The US Navy are still the ones carrying out high value strikes anyway and this is an Airforce project.
Andrew Barnes
ww2 era planes like this tucano and wolverine shit were shot down by the thousands... by ww2 era munitions and weapons.
These things wouldn't last a second against even 70s era soviet tech. 50 cal technicals are fucking all over the place, incredibly well hidden and out of sight. And those are fucking old school as it gets. They are easily enough to bring down one of these prop planes.
Not too mention that one warthog can hold more munitions than an entire squadron of these shit crop dusters. You would end up spending more money having to use multiple planes than you would save on whatever cost a worthog has.
Owen Robinson
>i mean jesus we killed Russians, that could have ended up with us shooting down Flankers and trying to take out SA-20s right quick.
You take Call of Duty too seriously.
Matthew James
What are helicopters?
Jordan Rodriguez
Why not make a modernized AD-2?,?
Jace Clark
You need to read and reread until it sinks in.
If the Army decides to buy a few HMMWVs with missile launchers on the roof, it doesn't mean they are going to replace their entire inventory of tanks with them.
Samuel Foster
Holy fugg...you could fly old-school in trashcanistan blasting away for pennies on the dollar comparitively...Sign me tha fuck up. Fuck jets.
Course I'd be very specialized, and toast the minute a fair fight between world/regional powers erupted.
Have a blessed Caturday, Jow Forums. This is giving me some food for thought.
Juan Reed
What is cost-per-flight, Alex.
Daniel Rogers
SHUT UP NIGGER!!! BIGGER IS BETTER! BIGGER GUNS MAKE BIGGER EXPLOSIONS AND THAT IS COOL!!! NEEAAAARRRRRRRR TATATATATATATATATA BOOM!!!!!
>t. United States Air Force General
Eli Lewis
maybe if i wasn't in the air that night it'd be a COD fantasy. it took a lot of talking on the deconfliction hotline to prevent escalation, and i thought we were gonna drop the SAM site.
this whole light attack thing started off as a Navy project. and the CAOC assigns whoever bitches the most about being left out to strikes. not a single Navy jet fought on Feburary 7th.
we have a reduced combat aircraft inventory and a pilot shortage. why reduce that further with specifically low side aircraft that are bought in significant numbers which eat into the fighter pilot numbers? we've proven that a fast mover can do CAS just fine. the A-10 guys are better at it for the same reason a F-15C guy is really good at launch and leave tactics: it's the majority of their training.
there's like 20 AC-130s of all flavors total in the US inventory, and that's just about right.
Jose Ortiz
and you should realize that there are already a fucking dozen aircraft that already fill this role and they do it better in every way.
Zachary Walker
this.
the only reason we fly A-29s now is to train poverty countries so we don't have to fly CAS for them one day.
Daniel Evans
>we have a reduced combat aircraft inventory and a pilot shortage. why reduce that further with specifically low side aircraft that are bought in significant numbers which eat into the fighter pilot numbers? we've proven that a fast mover can do CAS just fine. the A-10 guys are better at it for the same reason a F-15C guy is really good at launch and leave tactics: it's the majority of their training.
>there's like 20 AC-130s of all flavors total in the US inventory, and that's just about right.
Because we all know how valuable the F-35 project is. Super-expensive cutting edge of technology is ALWAYS the way to go for future cyber conflicts. :^)
Lincoln Johnson
better than a converted trainer.
Brayden Ramirez
What a piece of shit.
Just buy Chinese
Aaron Walker
>ball turret
Are you an actual subuhuman?
Anthony Gray
Get boned
Michael Ross
I always like the p48 enforcer.
On another note wouldn't a modern light aircraft be extremely vulnerable to AA and Surface to air missles? What does a light aircraft do that an AC-130 cant?
Aaron Edwards
Is cheaper to fly. And purpose would be for conficts where the opponent doesnt have even MANPADS, only maybe some old aa guns.
Adam Lopez
> new "light attack" aircraft:
there is only one correct answer
a motherfucking stuka
youtube.com
Isaac Fisher
Single engine planes can actually fly faster than a heavy cargo platform loaded with a light howitzer and 40mms.
Also it can still drop JDAMs higher than expected AA ranges, it's not going to do literal dive bombing like its 1941.
Andrew Lee
Would prefer pic related even though it’s not prop and definitely more expensive.
Ryan Moore
Wups
Gavin Edwards
wrong
Lucas Bennett
I think the other idea is you give them to people who you want to fight rebels for you. So rather than trying to teach Kurds or Afghans or whoever how to care and feed a modern attack helicopter or some equivalent, you give 'em far simpler prop planes.
They (the planes and your proxies) are cheap enough that you don't care too much if they get shot down, simple and basic enough that you don't care too much if they get captured, and you don't have to answer annoying questions about why you blew up a bus full of schoolkids because someone decided to use you to settle some tribal grudge.
Landon Martinez
airforce require a plane with 2 seats
Juan Myers
> implying
Evan Anderson
Shits on the competitionn
Kayden Howard
Just wait until the dune coons shoot a couple down with stingers or the Ruskie equivalent and then behead the pilots on life TV. Then we'll come back to you fucking retards and ridicule your stupid propeller planes.
Blake Campbell
okay! but can your plane smile that nice its prey
Lincoln Anderson
Whatever the fuck the choose, we need to put jericho trumpets on them.
John Scott
Yes, because that procurement program was the idea of some random losers on Jow Forums.
Blake White
We should just begin mass producing modern ME-109 replicas for use against towel heads. Hitler would be proud.
John Gonzalez
Anytime... anyplace... MUSTANGS!
Xavier Robinson
Why would you want to bring back an aircraft that wasn't even meant to be a ground attacker? Both of those were high altitude air superiority fighters/interceptors.
Leo Bennett
>current year 2018
>Trying to sell your combat prop aircraft
>Has a turbine, slower, less payload and less maneuverable than a F8F bearcat from the 1940s
How do you fuck up this bad? Half the problem with making a modern cheap CAS aircraft seems to be the lack of engine options, no one still makes 2000hp+ ww2 size piston engines, turbines are still as expensive and fragile as ever.
Anyone know if the AD-4 more or less work to keep running than turboprops?
Jaxson Phillips
>turbines are still as expensive and fragile as ever.
You're trying to tell me we can't have a reliable no-fuss workhorse with turboprops?
Nolan Ross
turboprops are MUCH more reliable and easy to maintain than high-performance pistons, especially an 18 cylinder
Nathaniel Powell
>no one still makes 2000hp+ ww2 size piston engines
you have turboprops for that
the Pratt & Whitney PW150 is as big as a merlin (just 7inch longer) and can give you 4500 shaft horse power
much more efficient
easier to build
easier to maintain
Lincoln Rogers
mfw> at work and this guy gets introduced as "SFO military liason" to my boss..
>up I pop, Liason dude, I was shark fishing last wed night at Coyote Point and a black AC-130 flew into SFO at about 300 ft.
>he scowled at me and said "what do you think it was"?
> we both broke into a horse laugh and back into my cube I went.
True story. Around the time Noriega got his take down.
Bentley Sanchez
Are they more efficient? I thought they still suffer due to having to run less than optimal air fuel ratios to keep the turbine temperatures under control. On light aircraft with piston and turbine options usually the cost and fuel consumption is much higher on the turbo prop models with the turbines having a large power to weight ratio advantage. I'm not sure if complexity and friction involved in 12+ cylinder engines make the turbines better at that scale.
Chase Nelson
>COIN aircraft
>needing to fly inverted
Jacob Davis
even fighters don't fly inverted for long. a F-15E has about 7 seconds of fuel inverted (assuming you're not doing a loaded roll of some sort)
James Jones
they have a rather equal fuel consumption with the difference that the turboprop will still give you power in areas a normal piston engine cant exceed
Oliver Howard
De Havilland Mosquito with modern avionics: Low-observable ground-attack plane for the 21st century.
Levi Collins
(2/2)
they have an excellent efficiency for cruising speeds
its more efficient than any other propulsion (but doesn't have the speed)
and is still faster than a piston engine
turboprops only have benefits
Camden Smith
Surprised they don't just put guns on the drones.
Luke Allen
>slight performance differences
>shit
Try reading next time nigger. The parts availability of the T-6 and the fact that almost every USAF Pilot has hours in T-6s is super valuable.
If they perform similarly, which they likely do, the AT-6 should win for the above reasons
Elijah Long
this
just make a drone with a turret that is man controlled, give it like a 20+ hour loiter time, and have remote pilots swap in every 6 hours or whatever.
I mean I would love to see a modern turboprop aircraft doing old school dive bombing as much as the next guy but why? Why not drones?
Fuck you could just have an airman/specialist attached at squad level with like a 40 lb drone packed with HE and a drone fpv racing setup. Disposable high maneuverable high accuracy bomb that's integrated at squad or maybe platoon level, that will fuck up anything below APC/Tank level armor.
Ayden Green
>planning for the last war
The last war is a war we are still waging and have been for near 2 decades. The privates that enlisted after 9/11 are now nearing retirement age.
The current foreign policy of the united states, as well as the state of the world, suggests COIN operations will be around for a while, so having a plane dedicated to that role in order to reduce cost is a smart decision.