Is .45ACP an obsolete cartridge?

It goes bang, so no.

Also created by our lord and saviour JMB.

Kill nigs

.45 is interesting to shoot and is very good for suppressors, but with modern defensive JHP ammunition 9mm performs close enough that it's generally a better choice for weight, capacity and recoil management.

It makes bigger holes and is more easily suppressed.

>but with modern defensive JHP ammunition 9mm performs close enough

>muh gel tests are indicative of terminal ballistics on human bodies

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Yes
.45 super/10mm or go home

>.45 super
Mexican detected

.45 has better recoil, it's a much lower pressure cartridge

Doesn't high caliber ammo recoil more though. So it cancels out.

yes and no
its becoming more obsolete in pistols
and less obsolete in PCC
also makes a great suppressor round

I shoot them both and the .45 recoil is less a sharp snap and more of a heavy roll
it's more pleasant to shoot the .45 than the 9mm imo

.45 is more effective, but it runs into the same problem as .40 does. Is it really better enough to justify the loss of magazine capacity, added weight and added bulkiness?

Of course you can still carry a .45 with all of those downsides and still be very well armed, but is someone carrying a 9mm doing it wrong? I think not (unless they're carrying FMJ ball).
That hasn't been my experience at all, but if it works for you then it works for you.

I don't seem to have trouble with recoil from high velocity cartridges, but high mass is different. I can deal with the snap but struggle with push, so for me and most other people I've shot with 9mm is easier to handle.

>I don't seem to have trouble with recoil from high velocity cartridges, but high mass is different. I can deal with the snap but struggle with push, so for me and most other people I've shot with 9mm is easier to handle.
I like the .45 and you like 9mm. Use what you're most comfortable with if you're not forced to use an issued weapon. All these threads about what cartridge is best/obsolete are just arguing about things that are all in the same basic category and will all get the job done.

Punchs an 18.42% bigger hole thats most likely going to be deeper as well.

it's the cuckservative boomer round, did nothing to stop the invasion of the US.

meanwhile, 9mm continues to serve our people by killing thousands of nogs a year

Subsonic rounds. Good for lower report in general, and with silencers especially.

>Is it really better enough to justify the loss of magazine capacity,
The vast majority of defensive shootings use 3 rounds or less, obviously there are exceptions but preparing for the exceptionally rare instance of an already unlikely occurrence seems excessive.

>added weight and added bulkiness?
I will give you weight simply due to barrel specifications, I would argue that bulkiness is really only a factor if you go for additional capacity, but either way unless you need absolute concealment or are sickly these are really non issues for EDC.

I would argue that in the event I am going to be shooting someone and the likelihood of magdumping/mag changing is low I would prefer the cartridge which is going to perform better. But I am also looking at it from the perspective of an individual with an interest in firearms training.
9mm is perfectly adequate for a sidearm that wil rarely be used in the military or for law enforcement officers with less training to magdump repeatedly.

60% bigger dumb hoe. Ever heard of area of a circle?

Depends on the purpose negro, for self defense I personally think 9mm is the most effective with modern hollow points + you gain capacity and controllability in much smaller, conceable handguns.

If you want a full size duty-style pistol, .45 seems more at home there. Plus as others have mentioned 45 is inherently sub sonic so awesome for suppressor use.

I carry a 9mm but I will be buying a .45 carbine for suppressor fun, so buy the shit you want nigga

.45 ACP is no more likely to stop an opponent than 9mm or even .380 ACP.

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.45 ACP is great for self defense in a public space. It has low penetration so it doesn't pass through the intended target but also packs enough of a punch that you don't have to unload an entire mag.

>The vast majority of defensive shootings use 3 rounds or less
>magdumping/mag changing is low I would prefer the cartridge which is going to perform better.

Say hello to your perfect CCW...

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>I've never fired a single round in my life
Jesus christ, why even come to this board?

There are good reasons to consider non-expanding bullets: they're cheaper, you can make them at home, you only ever use one type of ammunition for practice and defense, the barrier penetration is superior, it hurts more through a soft vest, the deeper penetration makes it more likely to kill large animals, and for defense against multiple attackers, especially when cornered, you might want to shoot through one man into a second, and through a second into a third.

For these reasons, .45 ACP flatnose is a credible defensive load. It's less optimized for common civilian self-defense cases, but more versatile in less common cases, such as stopping a vehicular charge, killing a bear, sniping a rifle-armed mass shooter from a distance, or fighting determined home invaders who use cover.

The various advantages of .45 ACP over 9mm:
- lower report (less hearing loss)
- lower chamber pressure (less chance of catastrophic, injurious failure through manufacturing defects, easier to produce homemade guns and replacement parts if necessary)
- heavier bullet (better barrier penetration, reduced deflection through windshields, loses less energy with range)
- greater wounding potential with a non-expanding bullet
- subsonic bullets give superior accuracy (less pitch and yaw from transonic aerodynamics)
- very suitable for suppressed weapons (comparable loudness and terminal effect to 300 BLK subsonic, and instead of needing a dedicated build, an ordinary pistol can be converted by two compact, light, moderately concealable accessories to a silenced carbine and back in seconds)

Revolvers have their own set of issues, like sideblast.

Are all ar45 uppers compatible with all lowers ive heard they arent?

Cylinder gap is nothing in the scheme of things until you get to big boy rounds like .44 and up.

45 is the best caliber if you want a hard hitting cheap option for a silecer to work very well with. 300 blackout is obviously better but also much more expensive and also its not more effective by a large margin

9mm is significantly better at penetrating than .45, the only advantage 45 acp even has is the larger hole if we're comparing fmj to fmj but a 9mm hollowpoint can expand to a greater diameter than .45 acp ball. Then the argument is "45 ammo is upgraded too!" But the point is that 9mm still has the fast follow up shots and high capacity it always had, but now with modern loads is more effective than 45 ball was. That's hard to beat. 45 ammo is improved but still the same issues of slower follow up shots, bulk, and reduced capacity exist.

I'm not saying 45 acp is bad, I'm just saying that it's pretty logically clear that 9mm is the optimal combat pistol round in modern times.

>9mm is the optimal combat pistol round

Actually it's 5.7 buy ok

Kinda funny, more white people were killed by .45 than nigs and sandnigs.

taste the rainbow

>such as stopping a vehicular charge, killing a bear, sniping a rifle-armed mass shooter from a distance, or fighting determined home invaders who use cover.
I'll give you the bear, but will need citation on the rest. I call BS
>- heavier bullet (better barrier penetration, reduced deflection through windshields, loses less energy with range)
>- subsonic bullets give superior accuracy (less pitch and yaw from transonic aerodynamics)
these I believe are also bullshit

LOL you autofags are having to get creative when shitting on wheelybois.

>I would have lived but for the SIDEBLAST

Attached: sides.jpg (640x370, 37K)

yes

We don't have to sit on revolverfags, revolverfags shit on themselves using something that became obsolete in the 1800s.

> revolvers became obsolete in the 1800s.

The US education system everyone.

Admit you're bootyblasted because the points for .45acp being viable despite being limited in capacity apply even better to .357 since it's the superior cartridge by every metric.

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Pretty good for silencing

Kinda. It's bigger than 10mm but significantly less powerful so I feel like it's inferior if we're talking about larger pistols. 9mm has the capacity advantage. 357 would be my preference in small, low capacity firearms though.

>obsolete in the 1800s
>still more reliable and overall better than the newest plastic memegun

the absolute state of autofags

A buddy of mine was a paramedic for over a decade.
9mm victims were usually coherent when they arrived on scene. Most walked out of the hospital a couple days later.
.357 and .45 victims rarely survived and were usually DOA.
The tired excuse that "9mm has bridged the gap with modern ammunition" seems to avoid the fact that .357, .40 and .45 have all benefitted from the same advancements and the performance gap has remained.

Reminder that tupac was shot 9 times by 9meme before he ever had a recording contract.

guess I should have done my .357 earlier, but looked too much like a derail.
there you have it OP. Yes it is worst than .357mag made for revolvers, which semi-auto fanatics call obsolete.
a crossbow would be better

I'm not "shitting on wheelybois", that's just an example of how complicated the choice is. I think revolvers are a very viable option.

Sideblast matters, just like hot brass ejection and slidebite matter. It's something you have to take into account every time you fire your revolver. It's important to remember that the vast majority of times when you fire a handgun, it will be for practice, not to save your life. If you're serious about being prepared for self-defense shooting, you should try firing from awkward postures and with your off hand. Sideblast can injure your eyes, or the eyes of someone standing beside you. (and yes, you should wear eye protection, but sometimes you forget or stuff gets around your glasses, and in the chaos of a real self-defense shooting, you may have need to discharge your weapon to the side while holding it in front of your face, without eye protection on)

As for other non-obvious disadvantages, revolvers are generally more delicate in their workings than steel-frame automatics. The cylinder is a weak point that often breaks when a revolver is dropped, and which can easily be damaged by rough handling during fast reloading.

.357 Magnum isn't superior by every metric (lighter bullets, much louder), and while .45 ACP limits your capacity, it doesn't do so nearly as badly as a revolver does. A typical 45 pistol carries 8 (though double-stack 45s do exist), while a typical revolver carries 6 or 5. Even with speedloaders, reloading an automatic is faster, and your reload can be a higher-capacity extended magazine.

Speaking of .45, what are some good SD rounds for it? I heard HSTs don't perform as well in .45 though.

Look it's ok to LIKE your revolver, but it's not like you know better than literally every single military and police force that can afford autoloaders

Ditch the toy, get a Mark IV

>Sideblast matters, just like hot brass ejection and slidebite matter. It's something you have to take into account every time you fire your revolver.

Please explain the negatives of the "sideblast". I have put untold thousands of rounds downrange with revolvers in the past 30 odd years and I've never experienced any issues. Revolvers were the dominant law enforcement sidearm for decades and an enormous amount of institutional knowledge filtered out to the general public in their employment in actual gunfights. I've never heard the term "sideblast" before this thread.

I'm not saying you made that shit up and are talking out of your ass about shit you have little practical experience with. I'm just saying that you made that shit up and are talking out of your ass about shit you have little practical experience with.

What's gonna happen to pic related bitches if one of them touches a round off?

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>but it's not like you know better than literally every single military and police force that can afford autoloaders

If you're not a cop or a soldier then their equipment choices have fuck all to do with you because you are not employing weapons in the same way for the same reasons.

>I've never heard the term "sideblast" before this thread.
>I'm just saying that you made that shit up
Yes, I made side blast up. You moron.

>I have put untold thousands of rounds downrange with revolvers in the past 30 odd years
Want to know how I know you're lying?

>LIKE your revolver

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>Yes, I made side blast up.

Thanks for admitting it because google thinks you're talking about some metal band.

>Want to know how I know you're lying?

Because I haven't updated my wheelgun family pic in a year and there's like 3 new ones to fit in?

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How desperate do you have to be for attention to come to Jow Forums and try to pose as a revolver enthusiast while denying that side blast exists and pretending to have never heard of it in 30 years of avid shooting?

I'm asking you to explain why "sideblast" would be a negative in a defensive shooting. Can you do that? Help me out bro I must have been doing some shit very wrong all these years. I hate to think what might have happened if I ever had had to use a revolver for self defense without knowing whatever it is you know.

You (and I) are in CA, where 10 rounds of .45 ACP is much preferred to 10 rounds of 9mm

>I'm asking you to explain why "sideblast" would be a negative
I've already explained it, and you're being a little bitch about it because you wanted to pose as an expert but it's too obvious that you're an ignorant idiot.

Link the post I can't find it.

Also you might want to inform the FBI so they can update their archives. They missed the whole "sideblast" issue when they were issuing revolvers...

youtube.com/watch?v=x28X4FK8Hkk

youtube.com/watch?v=BaiGSDiaI_w

Oh here's a video with sideblast...stupid me...
youtube.com/watch?v=O05yuuMOH-g

No.

If it exists I should shoot it.

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.45 is a great round because pistol rounds are all relatively weak compared to intermediate and rifle cartridges. Doesnt matter if you shoot someone three times with 9mm or twice with.45, they're gonna be killed dead anyway

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>Link the post I can't find it.
oh nm I see it:

>Sideblast can injure your eyes, or the eyes of someone standing beside you.

>you may have need to discharge your weapon to the side while holding it in front of your face

Post a pic of you holding a revolver? I think you're doing it wrong.

as someone who shoots a lot of both semi and revolver I can tell you guys don't
revolver cylinder gap on a well built revolver is narrower than a piece of bond paper
you can put your hand at the side of a .44mag being fired and feel some gas escaping but it's not much
you'll feel more out of a blow back semi

OMG it's real! they put it in a moviefilm! SO as long as I don't do this I can use revolvers for self defense?

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.45 is not a slower follow up shot
.45 carries more energy down range
capacity is a meme, learn to shoot and learn to reload

your entire post lets me know you haven't shot enough .45 to make intelligent statements about it
as a guy who shoots a lot of both, I am

>.45 is not a slower follow up shot
You can't beat physics.

p=m*v

>- subsonic bullets give superior accuracy (less pitch and yaw from transonic aerodynamics)
>these I believe are also bullshit
dropping from super sonic to sub sonic causes a bit of turbulence
that's part of the advantage of boat tails is that they handle the transonic change better
hand gun bullets wobble a little bit and thereby loose a little accuracy
there was, and hopefully it's still up, a high speed film recording of this on youtube
aside from that, there is something really interesting about the accuracy of .44 and .45 bullets
I have seen .45acp shot at 120 yard and hold a 3 inch group and Elmer Keith killed a deer at 600yd with a hot .44spl

look man, I have seen the clock on it
there is no practical difference between a 9mm and a .45acp when it comes to accurate follow up shots

>Capacity is a meme
lol
All your arguments can be made for 10mm against .45 too

Look, this isn't an argument. Everyone with basic knowledge of revolver operation understands side blast (or "sideblast" or "cylinder blast" as it's also called). It's mentioned in every revolver manual. It's mentioned early on in every introductory class on firing a revolver. It's explained when you're told how to hold the revolver with two hands, and why to ensure that any people you're with are standing behind you, not to the side.

I'm not going to watch every second of your cherry-picked videos to see whether they were advanced or supplementary enough to skip over certain basics.

>you can put your hand at the side of a .44mag being fired and feel some gas escaping but it's not much
youtube.com/watch?v=VFBAcz16GvU

Pic from:
freerepublic.com/focus/news/2313371/posts

It's great for zip guns because it's surprisingly low pressure

>.40S&W but slower and with less capacity
idk man

Sorry, lost my pic. The captchas are so fucking bad for me today.

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Subsonic 9mm is better suppressed. Smaller hole on the endcap for gas to escape.

>.45
>NOT being obsolete
>NOT being able to dodge them mid-air

Can literally see the bullets moving

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It's a feature user. Revolvers are weapons in a 270 degree arc. Shotguns eternally BTFO.

You literally have to stick your fingers right up against the gun for this to be an issue. It's a total non-issue for using a revolver in self-defense if you're not a mouthbreathing autofag.

No such thing as an obsolete cartridge, if it punches an hole through someone it's doing its job.

It's much weaker, though. A far lighter bullet that's not moving any faster.

I like and shoot 10mm
unlike most of you moronic fags I actually shoot every cartridge I talk about
the 10mm has more energy at the muzzle than a .45 but the .45 looses less on it's way down range
it really depends on the distance you're shooting but over all I'm happy with either cartridge in hand

But you're going to have less energy than a heavy bullet like .45 going at the same speed.

What about stuff like old .45-70 loads that are meant for guns that can't handle anything close to the pressures modern guns can?

I said a well built revolver
yes side gas can be dangerous if the gap is too large and you shouldn't be an idiot by checking it that way
however, my gunsmith tests the gap with paper hung next to it
if the blast damages the paper the gap is too big

Neo? is that you?

Well, to each his own. Some perform better than others in different fields. Some just aren't as efficient, because of aerodynamics for example. Wouldn't call it obsolete though.

>What about stuff like old .45-70 loads that are meant for guns that can't handle anything close to the pressures modern guns can?
still used, still kills

Having a tighter cylinder gap is not necessarily an indication of a better gun. Revolvers are manufactured with a specific cylinder gap in mind and that gap should be maintained. I have seen Smith and Wesson revolvers throw lead shavings out of the side of the barrel and hit bystanders.

Do not be a retard. Hold the gun with a proper grip and you will not get hurt. Do not take your revolver to Bubba Fudd who swears he gets the best performance out of his Ruger Security Six by shooting .38 Super out of it and twisting the barrel in until it scrapes against the cylinder face.

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>firing in self-defense you may have to shoot at weird angles
>gun can blind or injure you at 90 degrees from where it's being pointed
>It's a total non-issue for using a revolver in self-defense
Just digging yourself in deeper.

>I said a true scotsman
>weapons are always in fresh-from-the-gunsmith condition when fired
>there is no disadvantage or potential for mechanical failure when you have an extremely tight cylinder gap

Yeah but it could be killing harder with the same dimensions!

>I have seen Smith and Wesson revolvers throw lead shavings out of the side of the barrel and hit bystanders.

If your gun is shaving/spitting lead the timing is fucked. Cylinder gap is not causing the issue

>gun can blind or injure you at 90 degrees from where it's being pointed

Like I said please post a pic of how you achieve this mythical orientation. Because I can guarantee you the chances of having to hold a gun up to your face but pointing 90 degrees off your sightline is exactly ZERO lol.

>I can guarantee you the chances of having to hold a gun up to your face but pointing 90 degrees off your sightline is exactly ZERO
It could happen when you're resisting a carjacking, while belted into the driver's seat, or during grappling with an unarmed assailant, but obviously hurting others to the side or injuring some other part of your body by having the revolver pressed up against it when you fire is a bigger issue.

I've never claimed this is a major concern, but it obviously is a real one. Then there's stuff like hang fires exploding in a cylinder that's not behind the barrel, because by its nature the action doesn't stop you (again, if you're going to carry something for self-defense, you ought to shoot it a lot on the range, and the potential for range accidents matter).

Hot brass ejection is a minor but real issue, too. It wasn't long ago that a man in Florida bounced a shot shell down his shirt at the range, instinctively reached toward the pain, and shot his son standing behind him.

Sometimes I wish for well-made 4-shot derringers.

It can still kill you.