Define "victory" when it comes to the Afghanistan war

Glass the 25 largest population centers then GTFO.

Fuck that place and fuck everyone endemic to it.

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Using KGB-tier tactics to fuck over the insurgency.

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I don't buy the bullshit line about how thermite cannot melt steel, but if we had a legit reason to do anything to that shithole then glassing it was the only reasonable option.

Nuke or Moab every spot of resistance. Then leave.

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The Taliban have never, to the best of my knowledge, conducted terrorist attacks against the US or other NATO allies themselves. We got into a war with them because they sheltered other groups that did.

If the Afghan national government reached a peace agreement with the Taliban that excluded ISIS and Al Qaeda from the country, ended the fighting, and had an enforcement mechanism to prevent jihadists from using Afghanistan as a base of operations for attacks against the west, that would be great for America.

This was actually really interesting to read

Shit-skins stop being shit-skins.

That being in the grand scheme of things, never happening.

groups like al-qaeda user, that includes the talis, ISIS, muj, etc.

I don't give a shit if the Taliban wants to do jihad shit in Afghanistan. It only becomes a problem for us when people start attacking us.

Remember, the Clinton administration could not possibly have given less of a shit about the Taliban when they were taking over Afghanistan in the 90s.

Here's something much more interesting. The Algerian civil war.

nationalinterest.org/commentary/the-ugly-truth-about-algeria-7146

I doubt the Taliban would ever disavow Al-Qaeda and other jihadi groups operating in Afghanistan. That's the real problem.

Victory would have been to stay the fuck out of it. Too late for that now.

>the Clinton administration could not possibly have given less of a shit about the Taliban when they were taking over Afghanistan in the 90s.
yep, we made our bed mighty fine in the '90's and look at the sack of shit we're sleeping in now.

You let fuckers like the Talis gain power, legitimacy and they'll only come back to bite you in the ass. Better to just annihilate them.

If Amerikkka had a problem with Wahhabism, it wouldn't be allied with Saudi Arabia

no arguments from me there user

Does the ground look like glass? Then no victory.

Thermite was designed specifically to melt steel, idk who the fuck tits said it doesn’t

The problem is that the Taliban aren't any closer to annihilation now than they were in 2002.

It's a simple question of power vacuums. The Afghan government can not control an area. The Taliban can. The US can control areas, but for every month that the US is in charge of an area, there is a cost in money and a cost in lives for the US.

So the US takes over specific parts of Afghanistan in the hopes that the Afghan government can grow into an organization that's capable of governing, and the Afghan government simply doesn't because they can make a lot more money by embezzling US aid than they can by being honest.

And then when the US gets fed up of waiting for Afghan government that can actually run a country, they leave, and the Taliban gets pulled back into these areas because they're begging for somebody who can govern them.

At this point, the idea of a negotiated settlement with the Taliban that excludes Al Qaeda and IS is actually looking more likely than the idea of a total Afghan victory. It would probably break down later on the line, but I'd rather have a break in the fighting where the Afghan government can consolidate and start to function like a normal country.

The afghan military costs 50% of the countries GDP to maintain, without US money they fall apart.

Yeah, but paying the Afghan government costs absolute peanuts compared to fighting a separate war against the Taliban using the US military.

The entire GDP of Afghanistan is less than 5% of the US military budget.

It wouldn't be a real problem for the US if Afghanistan needed US assistance forever. It would be a problem if the US had to conduct air strikes and special operations in Afghanistan forever.

>The US can control areas,
No they can't because
>cost in money and a cost in lives for the US.

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Drive economic growth thru defense contracting. excuse for global force projection and positioning of occupation forces near China and Russia. Deflecting terrorism away from US territories. Rewarding defense companies to keep them ready for the next fight. Keep our military busy, trained and experienced in combat. Killing turrists. having proving grounds for future weapons and tactics.

Winning wars as a large over arching objective is kind of old hat when the US is literally the world's only superpower left. Now the goal is sustaining clear dominance and driving foreign policy and trade agreements in US favor through force projection. Afghanistan doesn't have to be a conclusion. It's just another chess piece on the board that's already at checkmate.

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Doing better than the Soviets, Alexander, Khans, British Empire and Persians

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>get BTFO for 17 years with no end in sight
>hehe all part of my master plan

Allow Americans a western style land grab and settle the country. Cowboys vs Indians round 2

Money going to right hands.
Not enough citizens complaining to end the gravy train.

I'd move tomorrow.

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By control I mean "prevent the Taliban from openly ruling"

In terms of actually neutralizing all of the insurgents in an area and providing basic public services, the US generally hasn't done that.

This is largely because the US knows that if they do these things instead of the Afghan government doing them, and then they withdraw from an area, the Afghan government will have no experience or capacity to rule the area, and the Taliban will come back.

Remember, the US is fighting as an ally of the Afghan government, not as a substitute.

>this thread again
Heroin, but also geopolitics. "Victory" is neutralizing the threats to the United States that have used the lawless and sharia-controlled parts of Afghanistan as a safe haven. Whether that means killing all of the AQ/ISIS/whatever or establishing a strong enough governmental structure to hunt them down for us and keep Afghanistan from being a haven for them is irrelevant. "Victory" also means maintaining a small American/Western-aligned presence there for the foreseeable future like we have in South Korea, Japan, and Germany. Afghanistan is a key country historically because of its geographic position and the implications that control over the region has for world geopolitics. Control over Afghanistan is important because it's that last bit of Central Asia that has yet to be "claimed" either as territory or as a buffer by a global power. Having a point to extend your geopolitical influence from in Central Asia is critical to containing Russian and Chinese geopolitical ambitions. An Afghan royal who didn't understand the global importance of his nation famously asked why Britain cared so much about his dusty, poor kingdom. He didn't understand how much leverage he had. Russia and the UK conquered these dusty Central Asian backwaters and played the "Great Game" for these reasons. It's why US consolidated its presence in Iran, and then shifted to consolidating its influence in Saudi Arabia to take down the new Iranian regime. The USSR invaded Afghanistan to ensure that the US couldn't get its hands on it. The US invaded so that we could eliminate the threats to the United States posed by groups hiding out there, to exert geopolitical influence from Afghanistan, and to block Chinese and Russian ambitions in Central Asia and in breaking free of the Eurasian Heartland. Read Halford MacKinder's "The Geopolitical Pivot of History." It's a very important essay, and not too long, and has influenced the geopolitical thinking of many world leaders.

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Securing the opium fields for an almost endless, cheap supply to sell cheaply to pharmaceutical companies when in turn mark the finished product 2500% up and sell it to addicted Americans. That was the only reason we went.

Our defence contractors are richer than ever.

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If this were actually why, Obama never would have sequestered the military budget after the Great Recession.

Spending cuts in the Obama years more than made up for the cost of the war in Afghanistan, in terms of taxpayer dollars going to defense contractors.

>Central Asian Homestead Act of 2019
>TV commercials about applying for government-subsidized flights and initial investments
>country-western songs about taming the wild (Afghan) frontier become a real thing about real shit again, not just a stupid folk singer affectation
>the pakul becomes the Stetson of the 21st century
>tfw this was the plan all along and lefties crying over "neo-colonialism" actually got that part right

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But the US lost in Afganistan

better question to ask yourself,

was war ever declared?

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when the military industrial complex feels like it's made enough money

>Fat retarded american larpers vs hard as nails guerilla pros who have been at war continuously for nearly 40 years
Holy fucking shit it'd be hilarious. They'd rip through the yanks like a knife through hot lard. You couldn't subdue the afghans with your best special forces and massive troops numbers, but you think some beer swilling pot bellied mouth breathers from North Carolina will manage it?
You'd be squeeling to the USAF to save you within a week.

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Read about Botswana, el Goblino...

youtube.com/watch?v=_CSPbzitPL8
I know you were 2 years old and dont remeber this.

T. Vasya Olegovich
youtube.com/watch?v=K69_m4gtZDk

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Where the fuck have you been? National Geographic did a documentary to show America that this stuff that was made to cut steel cannot cut steel. One theory holds that thermite was used to cut steel members in the Twin Towers. It's a thing. Take a peek some time. They were very well publicly BTFOd.

That is just some anti-American faggot on a rant. Only Congress has the power to declare way. It was never done. The fact that there is no declaration means that the objective can be kept murky and fluid - like diarrhea.

kill all the shitskins, keep the blue eyes aryans alive. settle white people in the area and tell the world to get fucked or get nuked.

Our masters would never approve of that.

>Year is 2550
>Space Force has finally defeated the Xenomorph army on Titan P856Z
>Hope to get in on some action before hostilities finally come to a close
>Get stationed in Afghanistan instead to try and teach the fucking goatfuckers how Jumping Jack's work

>Russian VDV smashing Musl

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What would happen if we just glass essentially Northeast Africa to NorthWest India and up to Turkey/Chechnya.

I'm honestly thinking a world were I need to eat and skin cats due to a nuclear wasteland is better than having to deal with Muslims.

Glass parking lot

I'd say, just leave and let the Taliban (pashtun nationalists), do what they want. They pose literally zero threat to the west, and afaik likes ty stay in their sandbox (they don't seem to have global aspirations).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Afghanistan_opium_poppy_cultivation_1994-2007b.PNG
>tfw
Maybe they'll bring opium down to normal levels.

Also, Osama bin laden is dead, no need to waste more lives just to feed Zog's lust for endless warfare.

Leave a competent government somewhat aligned with US values in charge and capable of defeating or at least keeping down any insurgency, that will last a longer period of time than, say for example, the South Vietnamese government.
So basically not going to happen. Totally worth the past 17 years and fuck knows how much money though guys.

All the anti American Sand Niggers DEAD!

You quit before your nation collapses.

It would destroy and or irradiate the interesting landscape, and historically valuable artifacts and structures (I know, I know, muslims, but still there's some pretty good early human shit going on there). You need to re-adjust your mindset:

GAS-parking lot.

Annihilate human life but leave the rest inhabitable. I'd love to see modern cities in that landscape. Imagine if real civilized people lived in that land and took advantage of it for motorsports, camping, etc. For anyone who doesn't know I urge you to look up Afghanistan's landscape and scenery and topography and shit. I'll feel very, very bad for all the birds lost in the process though.

MFW never going to protect my land against mudskins with my ranch hands.

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you're partially correct
we can't even control the whole of the country, and you are right that the faggot proto democratic BS that we installed won't work. Make Afghanistan a confederacy, where power is more decentralized with people who we like in those regional areas. Then we'll see results.

we don't have to declare war to invade countries
t. barbary wars

git gud at history lolberterain nigger

Honestly, I don't think there's anything we can do other than just bomb the Taliban, and bomb the ever-loving shit out of any Al Qaeda or ISIS affiliates that show up.

Complete eradication of NATO and Afghan government(corrupt/puppet) forces

Hang every political head who got us to go there in the first place.

Balkanization of the corrupt US and EU. End NATO. Watch as Russia and China lead world into peace and stability. The century is theres.

Amerikkka spends trillions on war and can't even give its citizens healthcare. It is rotten from the inside

Healthcare is unconstitutional, don't be retarded.
>Implying we don't waste 65%+ of all taxes on unconstitutional entitlements

Are you implying there are blue eyed aryans in afghanistan? And are these people huwyte?

Fuck off, communist.

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Those Berezka jammies look comfy as fuck

Um, 9/11?

You'd be amazed how many blue eyed red headed whitss I saw in Helmand. I always assumed they were some sort of Russian rape baby.

Getting BTFO slightly less than the Soviets.

>Taliban committed 9/11

You're retarded

Not the Taliban.

When Kandahar looks like this

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>nationalinterest.org/commentary/the-ugly-truth-about-algeria-7146
This is like that rwanda/congo thread how was all this shit going on in the 90's and early 2000's and hardly ever got mentioned? When it did it seemed like it was never in detail.

The eradication of islamic terrorism, preferably with nukes.

Based realist poster

You'd think but central Asia is a deeply weird place genetically.
Like Russia actually has populations with red and blond hair genes introduced separately from central-western european AND central Asian sources.
Like in nuristan they have blond hair but the genes aren't the same as in blond euros

Taliban hosted Al Qaeda at the time. Heres how it went:
>we confront Talib gov at the time
>Technically Osama hasnt claimed it yet as AQ terror attack
>Talibs dont like Arab AQ sunnis, but are hosts due to Osama having helped during Soviet occupation
>islamic and talib honor law dictates protecting your guests
>Talibs say "hey, we can send him to Switzerland for a neutral trial"
>US says "nah we want that fucker NOW" (remember the embers are still burning)
>We go to Northern Alliance tribes, or what WOULD be
>cia shennanigans trying to teach rules of engagement, because the CIA actually cant assassinate people easily atm (literally, theres an executive order about it).
>we try to convince the Talibs to hate Osama more, but negotiating tribal politics means no one in the Talib government can be trusted to actually DO anything without involving 50 people
>all we manage to do is make half the bureaucrats not want to come to work
>CIA and state department manages to make headway with leadership, warning them that war will be ruinous
>some talibs are REALLY stubborn and get Red Dawn fever after winning against the USSR
>apparently the Air Force got excited and ejacc'd 2,000 lb bombs on the Talib leaders empty house literally hours after the Talibs met to discuss war with Americans
>Talibs decide it's worth not screwing over another muslim leader who helped their independance, and figure Americans will leave when Osama does
>Northern Alliance led by Karzai says it'll take over, be US friendly, and give us Osama
>we show up, government 100% collapses
>NA starts to take "control", sparking a crips vs bloods gang war between NA/Talibs
>Osama escapes around Tora Bora
>we dont want to abandon NA, hunt for Osama who we think is around there
>pakistan says they'll help due to border and ISI ties
>oops Osama was in Pakistan all along :^)

Thats more or less how it happened.

>Define "victory" when it comes to the Afghanistan war.
All afags convert to christianity and start a crusade against the mudslimes

Stalemate is victory. That's just how war is, get over it.

A glass parking lot.

Getting as much opium as possible on the plane.

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Depends on whose victory it is.

If we're talking about the people who wanted us going to war in the first place, people who have massive stocks and ownership of MIC companies or PMC groups, the war is a resounding success and they're going to keep lobbying for the war to never end.

this.
the middle east poses no real threat, and el goblino memes aside, a lot of the middle east is whiter and has higher IQs than all the mutts coming from mexico, south america, and africa south of the sahara and egypt.

Victory in Afghanistan can be defined as left alone, because Afghanistan like Ukraine is a buffer zone, and to try and control the buffer zone brings larger countries and peoples closer to the nigger hordes of Africa, regarding the southern Middle East, and the hordes of shitskins from Pakistan in regards to Afghanistan.

All their base is now ours.

>Doing better than the Soviets
The soviets outright won the whole war before pulling out.

US pretty much left to save face.

Killing the idea is far cheaper

Uh, they host internationally wanted terrorist groups that launch attacks from their base. Also the Taliban said that it's apart of the "global jihad". They don't care if you'll leave them alone, they'll still host terrorist groups.

longwarjournal.org/archives/2016/12/taliban-rejects-peace-talks-emphasizes-alliance-with-al-qaeda-in-new-video.php

Afghanistan isn't in the Middle East you dumbass.

the middle east is interchangeable with the muslim world, dumbass.

no brown people are left

No it's not.

Yes it is. No one cares about Muslims in Indonesia and they're never relevant in any discussion of "issues facing the Muslim world".

I don't think you care about any Muslims. It's clear you know nothing about Afghanistan. Maybe just stop posting.

The sides involved weren't really friendly to the West, were dangerous and hard to negotiate into for journalists, and were in areas where English was rarely spoken. Each factor makes it less likely to hit the news, but all three tends to compound things. It was probably more prominent in French-speaking media, I'm guessing.

Think about how little you hear about Turkic speaking, former USSR areas of Central Asia today. Sounds like nothing is going on because they hit those same factors, but they've got a bunch of problems with ISIS, especially Uzbeks it seems. Yet Boko Haram was giant news, because it was happening in a former British colony and a friend of the West, so the network is already established to spread news.

Matter of perspective. They are quite relevant in Australia.