Trying to bust the camera and vision slits with bullet fire? Throw a dozen molotovs and two jerry cans of fuel and light it on fire without the crew breaking a sweat? Trying to jam or derail the treads/exposed drive wheel with logs, debris, or a thrown explosive?
Obviously it would be dumb to ever have an MBT anywhere unsupported, but are MBT's immune to the old tricks that worked on WW2 era tanks?
>but are MBT's immune to the old tricks that worked on WW2 era tanks? No. Best case scenario the damage is more limited.
Tracks still get thrown, optics can still be destroyed, the engine still has an air intake and the crew still needs air. As long as you can get a person close enough to the metal box there'll be a way to get a mobility kill at the very least. But then therein lies the difficulty in competent militaries.
Josiah Phillips
I thought MBT tanks were rated for NBT and can withstand napalm
Ryan Green
RPG people worry about them good reason to worry
Nicholas Perry
RPGs don’t do shit
They can disable them but it would take like 100 to harm the crew
James Gomez
Lets see how long they last buttoned up, detracked with niggers throwing consecutive molotovs bathing it in flames for multiple hours.
Tankers that have brains worry about RPGs coming from the sides or elevated positions, don't you worry. It's why the tank generally trails the infantry in city environment.
Jaxson Lewis
>MBTs have an average of 25-45 mm of just basic bitch welded RHA plate for protection of the flanks and rear. Depends on the MBT and specific armor package, but your point still stands.
But yeah the entire premise of this thread ignores the fact that a tank is a part of a combined arms force and thus by the time you get anyone near enough to destroy it with improvised weapons or get an angle with a barely sufficient AT weapon someone has made grave mistakes already.
Parker Nelson
>Are MBT's virtually immune to all forms of improvised Anti-Tank weapons
>Thermal vision >The tank is on fire It will work perfectly fine. Lights up all heat signatures like its supposed to.
Bentley Cooper
The tank breathe The crew breath The crew have limited visibility buttoned up This why crew hates being buttoned up Old WW2 tactic is still valid Stop em Blind em Break em
That being said mbt is still pretty tough But a tankers worst nightmare is mobility kill, infantry on the tank, and vision ports getting speediness spray painted. Because next the engine air intake will be choked off and then without relief the tank is a coffin
Jace Martin
I know they are mostly shitty outdated slavshit but something syrians did really early on in the uprising before ATGMs became a thing was shove grenades or explosives or something down the tank barrel.
Christopher Green
>what is the PG-7VR warhead
Elijah Morris
Because they’re just gonna sit there waiting for you to do that. You realize how fast that turret spins right? Not to mention Abrams usually work in teams or at least have some form of back up.
Owen Carter
The hatch seals have a good chance of being fucked.
Ryder Kelly
It's not the tanks it's the tactics. Plenty of fottage of Habiib wrecking iraqi and saudi MBTs because they cannot into modern warfare.
It's much harder to sneak up on a US or British tank like that because there's usually going to be a bunch of infantry and/or IFVs supporting them and they're pretty much never alone.
That said things like AT trenches, hedgehogs, and even simple boulders will always have some sort of effectiveness in the right places. You're probably not going to go full winter war and succeed at dropping a tank (or survive the attempt) but you can always hinder an advance by being an annoying little shit with an excavator or backhoe. Making life hell for an advancing force is probably more effective at this point than outright attacking if you'd be using improvised gear.
Jonathan Barnes
This is especially true outside of a desert where pretty much any 1st world army will DOMINATE because a desert is open terrain and allows for pure undiluted warfare.
But in places like Europe and especially jungle regions where foliage and terrain is much more difficult, the right blockades in the right places can be vital.
Just don't get too cocky. The French presumed the terrain would give supreme advantages in the Ardennes that they didn't bother with any anti-tank weapons there at all.
Isaac Jones
>25-45 mm RHA >flanks of an Abrams >literally covered in DU plates in addition to the composite armor it has >a good portion of the rear is pretty inert too No, stop that.
thats not exactly accurate, but sand niggers are so dumb they dont shoot the back part of the turret.
Anthony Carter
Depends on the IED. Floor armor is generally pretty thin on an MBT (in relative terms) so if you could include some form of penetrator you would get a pen. >6 April 2007: in Basra, Iraq, a shaped charge from an IED penetrated the underside of a tank (Challenger 2) resulting in the driver losing three of his toes and causing minor injuries to another soldier
Generally though, you could use an IED to de-track the vehicle and then try to get in close and fuck with it.
But even getting close normally isnt enough, again the Chally 2 provides a good example: > a Challenger 2 came under attack from irregular forces with machine guns and rocket propelled grenades. The driver's sight was damaged and while attempting to back away under the commander's directions, the other sights were damaged and the tank threw its tracks entering a ditch. It was hit by 14 rocket propelled grenades from close range and a MILAN anti-tank missile.[32] The crew survived, safe within the tank until it was recovered for repairs, the worst damage being to the sighting system. It was back in operation six hours later. One Challenger 2 operating near Basra survived being hit by 70 RPGs in another incident
Lucas Hill
As an aside, can anyone explain wtf the bongs were doing in Basra >survived 70 RPG hits
How do you fuck up so bad that you leave a tank exposed enough for it to even be shot at that much?
Hudson Hernandez
Only the first 3 plates are ballistic though. To let the vehicle move around a corner with some extra protection until it can fire the main gun.
Austin Torres
What I'm wondering is, how will tanks hold up to an EFP? They're not rocket science to make, since the ay-rabs just use explosives from old arty shells and copper cones. Depending on how well it's made, it can optimally send a 5 pound copper slug at mach 6. Do Modern MBTs have armor that protects against these?
Jason Davis
>Do Modern MBTs have armor that protects against these? Pretty sure the whole idea of cermic armor was to defend against copper penetration
Adam Walker
Hadji zerg rushing cant be arsed to look for it but there is footage of about a hundred of these roaches rushing out of a alley to molotov a APC. Usually doesnt end to well for hadji though.
Logan Taylor
just shoot the smoke, at the point you've popped smoke and are hiding inside it, it's just a matter of saturating that area with MG fire, and if you're hiding outside of the smoke, well... we did just mention the thermal opticts didn't we?
Jordan Davis
HEAT penetration is 5 to 7x the charge diameter for copper, 8-10x for tantalum.
EFP penetration is about half the CD for copper.
Anyone can make a shitty shaped charge but eking out the last 2-3x of pen is indeed serious business with a lot of fluid dynamics. Modern first world EFPs are built to forge crude fins for stabilization and can be tuned on the fly for longer rod shapes for armor pen, patterned shrapnel or longer ranged projectiles.
Jordan Jenkins
tanks *clap* are *clap* never *clap* alone *clap*.
While you're trying to do one weird trick on tank A, tank B is overwatching and C & are flanking.
Tanks use the same tactics infantry fire teams, platoons, and squads do.
Ryan Gonzalez
You do know that tanks do not operate alone right? At the very least they move as a platoon of 4.
And if it came down to it they would start mounting claymores to the side of the tank, I know that the riot vehicles used in Iraqi temporary prisons did this.
Camden Brooks
Not true. Rare, but a US Abrams driver was killed in Iraq by an RPG-7 when it got a good hit.
John Morris
Wasn't that an underbelly strike when the tank was climbing up a berm? Or was that the Chally driver that lost his toes?
Justin Evans
Probably not true.
Jeremiah Morales
I heard about it 10 years ago but now looking for it through stuff I can't find any evidence of it, so I'm probably just telling shit now.
Kayden Sanders
Ok the Challenger was hit with a RPG29 that either defeated the front hull armor or got a 1 in a million of hitting between the front and belly, the MoD isn't too forthcoming with information. The Abrams (M1A1 Persian Gulf) was struck by a RPG7 in the sweetspot between hull and turret killing one crew member while setting off the ammunition. As for other attacks (to public knowledge) from RPG7s there are no other occurrences that resulted in crew death. This does not take into account later versions of the RPG, EFPs, IEDs, exposed crew members, and so on. I also only speak for the American versions and not export models.
Samuel Kelly
RPG can easily go through side hull on the Abrams if the skirts and roadhweels don't stop it. Homemade EFPs with crappier warheads have gone clear through Abrams hulls.
There's no mystery magic flank armor, it's just 25-45 mm of steel plate. No magic composites. Just armor plate.
*are MODERN tanks immune to IMPROVISED forms of anti-tank weapons
Josiah Mitchell
Hull sides are poorly armored compared to turret sides but, using an Abrams as an example, are only that thin at the rear. This is of course not accounting for any type of ballistic skirt.
