Can we talk about .410 gauge shells

Yes the energy is divided up among the pellets. So each will do less damage individually. Plus the rifling in these .410 pistols makes the shot pattern spread very fast. Beyond like 20 feet the spread is already so wide even if you aim at the center of their chest some pellets will miss to the right and left of their chest.

It's a decent choice if you only plan on self defense from an assailant right in your face. Perhaps an anti-car jacking gun. Loaded with bird shot they make excellent anti-snake guns for hikers.

A quick google search shows this picture shooting a .410 pistol at 15 feet. As you can see the spread is already the size of a human torso. By 20 feet pellets are going to be missing on all sides.

So not only is the muzzle energy divided up among the pellets. But at any sort of range multiple pellets are going to be missing no matter how good your aim is meaning you aren't hitting the target with all that muzzle energy. And if the muzzle energy was only 9mm tier to start with, that means once pellets are missing the target you are putting .380 ACP, .32, or maybe even .22 lr levels of muzzle energy on target.

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The cone sure gets wiley after a few yards. Woe to anyone else in the house

And .410 slug? Say vs the .45lc that would also fit the chamber

>Perhaps an anti-car jacking gun. Loaded with bird shot they make excellent anti-snake guns for hikers.
That's precisely what I was potentially interested in it for the most part. I've always had a fascination with derringers and figured maybe I'd get some after I rounded out my pistol collection with some practical stuff. Which kind of got me thinking of something like thisThe barrels are so short on them it just seems like there is some big diminishing returns on bullets that are usually considered decent. I always just sort of felt 410's were probably kinda of weak and shitty unless they're in a rifle length barrel, but I really haven't had anything to base that assumption on.

Well as I posted earlier here
My searching shows .410 buckshot as having about 300-350 ft-lbs of muzzle energy out of a 2.5 inch barrel pistol. That's pretty mediocre, but certainly lethal with a well placed shot. But as I said before, about on par with a 9mm +P out of a 2.5 inch barrel as energy.

It's not the hand cannon it is memed to be.

much of Jow Forums memes 9x19 out to be a hand cannon

The mini 14 threads were better.

Please leave. mini14 triggers my autism. I just can't stand it. The overall look and action of it looks like a m14, it's a close as you can get to it looking like an assault rifle that grabbers call semi's and they're perfectly okay with them but they go ape shit over a fucking AR firing the same round. If I wasn't convinced the gun grabbers were going to try calling every single semi-automatic weapon in existence assault weapons to attempt getting stuff banned I'd think I was the crazy person. Besides why would you want a fucking m14 in .223 the entire fucking point of the thing was having it in 7.62x51 in the first place

I'm just interested in the shotshell. Do the lengths on these effect the power like larger gauges? It seems like there is a lot of different styles for the type of shot thrown in there and a couple pumpkin balls or disks sounds kinda cool. That's another thing, what's the fucking deal with discs? I never see these used in other gauges. Do they just engage rifling better? Or is there some other reason for them?

and it's like fucking .223 isn't even a full rifle round, it's an intermediate cartridge. It's a carbine not an assault rifle, the m14 was an assault rifle. I just don't fucking get it.

Lol ok.

Not really

They just understand that since pistol bullets aren't going at rifle velocities they don't have hydrostatic schock. So you are pretty much just punching a hole in somebody. And a 0.38 inch hole isn't really any less deadly than a 0.45 hole.

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Youd be much better off with .45lc unless you're shooting rats or snakes.

>300 ft lbs is 9mm +P
only fucking retards believe this
actual 9mm +P is 400 ft lbs-500 ft lbs (buffalo bore +P+ 115 grain).
300 ft lbs is like 9mm standard from a compact length barrel. And you're carrying a 3 lb 410 pistol that is impossible to conceal and the rounds won't penetrate for shit.

>b-but muh copper rounds!
Too bad 95% of fudds are carrying birdshot loads in their Taurus Judge.

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Not really usually their argument is that a 9mm can expand to up to half it's size so .355+50% of .355
If someone had just started making .45acp cartridges with stronger brass a couple decades ago nobody would have ever adopted 9x19

When it comes to shorter barrel guns though I think it makes a bit of sense it's not going to reach some of the higher speed thresholds of most pistol rounds which sort of got me wondering about .410 in the first place since it can make multiple holes around the same speed potentially. That and there are some oddity/interesting .410 pistols that seem like they'd fit in my boot or pocket kind of nicely

Why though? I understand .45lc can be loaded really hot and something like a ruger 6 shooter can use them really effectively but when you get into shorter barrel lengths?

>That and there are some oddity/interesting .410 pistols that seem like they'd fit in my boot or pocket kind of nicely
ever seen a 410 revolver in person user?
If that's your back up, your primary is an anti-tank rifle.

Can you stop making these goddamn .410 threads. I know it's you. Nobody likes your dogshit little kid shotguns. Fuck off.

I posted the muzzle energy and barrel length info here
I was trying to stay consistent and only consider 9mm +P muzzle energy out of a similar 2.5" barrel. According to that chart, the tested 9mm +P ammo had about 300-350 ft-lbf energy at 2.5" barrel. Yes buffalo bore makes hot ammo and it is probably a little more but that is +P+ territory. +P is a specified SAAMI pressure rating and is standardized. +P+ is getting into unregulated territory and doesn't really mean anything other than that it is above +P levels. I was trying to be fair and only talk about loads that conform to some sort of standard. Buffalo bore makes some crazy stuff.

.45 super and 10mm are both basically the stronger .45 ACP. .45 super is literally .45ACP with better casings that can handle higher pressures. 10mm is also a big bullet, not quite as big as .45, but still big, operating at high pressures.

wrong
ballistics101.com/9mm.php

Why did shitter have to turn .410 into a forced meme here? I unironically like it but am well aware it is outshined by any shell.

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No I mean more like a bond arms kind of thing, or some similar stuff. I already have semi-automatic sub compacts and told myself I'm not going to expand that collection just yet, I'm not going to buy anymore pistols till I work on some of my other collection stuff. Derringers don't count as pistols like that though. It's entirely different.
Well actually a lot of people like .410 shotguns because people make a lot of survival guns that have a .410 barrel on it. Prepper or shtf types that have done any firearms research would probably be interested in it. Besides, you use the right tool for the job, how often does anyone take a .50bmg bolt action out to hunt small game, .410 has uses for that. Not so much in the type of guns I'm interested in but you'd think maybe some of those types might be around a weapons board.
I know about .45 super I avoid the living fuck out of it because with most guns, the kind of ammo you can buy commercially is loaded to a specification that isn't going to beat the living fuck out of an older gun or a poorly manufactured one that will beat itself to shit and kaboom. I can't find any info on what kind of .45acp's can survive super with a spring swap. 10mm is just an entirely different round and it's pointless with .40 being the same size yet usually having better capacity and a shorter length. 10mm is a dead round. A lot of 9mm doublestacks suck to grip, some bigger rounds give up capacity and don't even try to not suck at that.

How was I wrong?
I know of no official cup pressure for +P+ 9mm, only that it is above the 38,500 psi cup pressure of 9mm +P. 9mm +P isn't supposed to go higher than that.
The energies you posted are clearly out of longer barrels. Like I said, I was trying to compare 9mm +P out of an equal barrel as the .410 pistol. Obviously 9mm +P out of a longer barrel has more energy.

I own a CZ scorpion with a 7.75" barrel. It is loaded with HST +P ammo right now and is my go to home defense gun. I'm fully aware that 9mm +P out of longer barrels has very decent muzzle energy, closer to 600 ft-lbf.

Like I said, I was comparing 2.5" .410 to 2.5" 9mm.

Chill out.

I have a .410 break action shotgun and it's goofy and I've only ever fired 1 shell out of it because what the fuck am I gonna do with a .410 bore break action shotgun?
I've thought about shooting squirrels with it but I don't know it just seems like a goofy round to me.

It doesn't sound like a bad hunting weapon if you don't really get your hopes up and are careful.

Teach a kid to shoot with it or saw it down to a pistol

>Apparently a lot of people carry them in pistols now

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Pretty much any pistol capable of firing one can fire 45 long colt instead which is much better

How is it better though? Range is practically irrelevant in a self defense shooting and in a smaller barrel you're not even likely to take a long shot especially while someone is trying to hurt you rather than run away. If you only have a shot or two the spread could potentially be more effective than just a single hole the 45 colt would do

The little bit of shot from .410 is worse than a slug for damage, esp csince will barely spread at likely distance
.45 slug bigger than .410 slug
Go 45

The point wasn't really the spread being effective itself. You're talking about objects that are basically the same diameter. Getting 3 holes instead of one if it penetrates enough sounds like a better deal than a single bigger slug.

Its the most practical personal defense weapon out there. Pic Related

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>That fucking gun
Jesus christ, my friend has one of those. They're... odd.. and his is poorly maintained so it's sticky and bitchy.