What's Jow Forums's opinion of the Gripen?
What's Jow Forums's opinion of the Gripen?
Jonathan Fisher
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flightglobal.com
africandefence.net
defenceweb.co.za
defenceweb.co.za
reuters.com
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Sebastian Kelly
I like it.
Benjamin Cook
Pretty cute.
Wyatt Bell
More expensive than a new F-16 and less capable.
Henry Martinez
Better than the meme-35 or slavaboo leftovers.
Caleb Bell
More expensive than a new F-16
No. Use Google.
Leo Hill
has a bad reputation because swedaboo shitposters like insist upon its superiority to actual 5th gen fighters. In reality it's a reasonable cut price 4.5 gen, good enough for Sweden's needs, but there's a reason not many are selling on the export market (other than BAE/Rafale bribes, of course).
Caleb Jenkins
Truth be told, the Gripen has sold far better than it had any right to do.
Sweden had no economic sway whatsoever for economic return investment, nor any political power on the global scene, unlike all manufacturers of competing systems. Despite this, Gripen has sold equal numbers as the Rafale and that only because the Rafale has been sold to a bunch of ME shitholes where the Gripen can't be exported due to Swedish export laws.
Christopher Foster
South African here
>we operate the gripen
Its a solid fighter for a military on a budget.
>low life-cycle costs - (R) 80,000 and R100,000 ($6,300-$7,800) per flying hour according to the SAAF [1]
>capable enough to beat SU30MKI's in a BVR fight [2]
>SAAB will let you put in your own avionics, for example they let us install an indigenous data-link [1]
> and were willing to cover the costs for integrating the new A-darter missile (5th gen missile) [3]
The Gripen shines in the role we use it for especially. South African fighters have always been more focused on reconnaissance - and then hitting ground targets of opportunity. Dog-fighting is generally more defensive (if you are doing a recce and get caught), the goal is to take out enemy aircraft on the ground using stand-off munitions (fighters are too rare and too expensive to risk losing in a dog-fight). Basically, fighters for us are bomb-trucks with big eyes.
Gripen is great as a recon platform, as we saw it was chosen for this tasking during NATO op's in Libya. Further, SAAB has been really helpful in getting the Gripen to fill the niche we want to use it in. Recently the SANDF demonstrated exactly what we use the Gripen for - it targeted a tank, and fed the info via (indigenous) data-link to a Rooivalk AH hiding behind a hill 10km away, which then used the data to NLOS engage the tank with a Mokopa ATGM (indigenous). SAAB allowed us to do a number of adaptions to the Gripen so that it would work in our networks.
I seriously doubt General Dynamics, Airbus, BAE, Leonardo or Dassault would have let us do that.
citations for autists:
[1] flightglobal.com
[2] africandefence.net
[3] defenceweb.co.za
Daniel Powell
Good for some token air forces like Romanian, Bulgarian, etc. to replace their MiG-21s. Sure as hell better than fucking F-16.
Brody Brooks
>hell better than fucking F-16.
That really depends on the version and I say that as a Gripen fag. Wasn't it Romania that had the option to choose between the Gripen C and the F-16 blk70?
The blk 70 is a beast that can go toe to toe with anything except state of the art 5th gens. The same can't be said for surplus Gripen C.
Had it been between the Gripen E and the Blk 70 it would have been a fair match though.
William Martin
The price, my dude. Even such a rotten washtub as second-hand F-16 has be stuffed with modern equipment. Only at what cost, $70 mil? $170 mil?
Andrew Brooks
Good post, user
Owen Jenkins
>citations
Quality post
Gavin Campbell
>this level of asshurt
wew
Julian Peterson
It (Gripen-E) is less expensive & less capable than a F-16V
Going by base model F-16 is silly.
Anthony Howard
Nice.
Isaiah Thompson
the air force isn't something you can skimp on, especially if you are serious about defending your country against actual enemies. if you don't put money into the air force, you should just becomes someones vassal state. There is no reasonable way a you can fly a 3-4th gen an expect to win the air war.
you will just get rolled by china and their shitty f-35 knock offs.
Dominic Rodriguez
>>capable enough to beat SU30MKI's in a BVR fight [2]
Nice meme.
John Scott
The Su-30 is really hampered by the crude and inferior russian electronics as well as having the RCS of a freight train.
Jace Perez
>less capable
By what metric? Less capable as a smaller plane has smaller combat radius and payload? In the BVR role, Gripen E having Meteors as well as a total 200 degree of radar coverage, that makes it more than a match for pretty much everything except stealthy 5th gens.
Camden King
Wtf...
Brandon Hernandez
If by less capable you mean it is 6 km/hr slower at top speed and has lower max. payload then yes.
But, it flies better, lands bettee, takes off faster and better and has better avionics.
To be honest, I think they are not so comparable. Both are supposed to fill the MPF role but F16 has always been leaning toward bombing and A2S missions while the gripen always was more of a recon a2a mission bird.
If we take into account the pilots, the F16 would probably come out on top every time. The amount of veterans in F16 is just wy greater than the amount of veterans in gripen.
Liam Garcia
Gripen a cutest.
Michael Gutierrez
THIS
Gavin Cook
>lack ramjet A2A missile
>no mechanical steering of the AESA
>capable
Jace Jackson
>Being this salty
Hunter Baker
Gripen is lewd.
Liam Diaz
Angel Scott
I see no Su-30 here. Stay mad.
Adrian Brooks
>o-our western killing aircraft is surely the best THIS time! P-please ignore our track record of making overhyped garbage!
>t-this exercise where the Western jet was prohibited from using BVR missiles proves it!
Vatniks, not even once.
Chase Clark
>Still no Su-30 there
>Still lost to Su-30
Stay mad, lol.
Carson Jenkins
>India set exercise where redfor to lose
>redfor loses
>vatniks go XAXAXA SU-30 STROOOONG
Meanwhile in the real world, russian planes of 80s vintage gets BTFO by Sparrows and AIM-9s, missiles first introduced in the 50s.
Russia is several decades behind the west, as usual :^)
Jeremiah Wood
>Still no Su-30 there
>Still lost to Su-30
>He's still mad
Lol, fucking loser.
Cameron Lewis
>the original supercruiser
Gavin Nguyen
There is no Gripen there either. Gripen with its superior AESA, Meteor missiles and RCS would rape the Su-30 in every engagement.
>pic related, the missile that relegates the russian air "force" to 3rd world status.
Matthew Gomez
>gets killed by missile 30 years older than his aircraft
GG Vatnikistan :^)
Lucas Stewart
Russian planes being good is a meme.
Bentley Moore
Is there ANY engagement where russian planes has even been able to draw even with Western contemporaries?
Since WWII, russian planes has universally been shat on in every conflict.
Grayson Gray
I think the Lightning P.1A flew the year before the Draken in 54.
Eli Roberts
Yeah, there was Typhoon, which is better than Gripen.
>Still no Su-30 there
>Still lost to Su-30
>He's still mad
Take a pill, loser.
Brandon Wood
>That makes it as capable as anything except 5th gen.
That does not.
Charles White
God I hate anime.
Ian Gomez
Currently russia have NOTHING in production that can deal with the Gripen E.
Deal with it vatnik.
No, the Su-27+++ that is the PAK-FAilure is not in production.
Jayden Sullivan
Yes it does.
Parker Cox
>God I hate anime
Nicholas Flores
>"The parameters of the exercise heavily favored the IAF; none of the six 3rd Wing F-15Cs were equipped with the newer long-range, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars and, at India's request, the U.S. agreed to mock combat at 3-to-1 odds and without the use of simulated long-range, radar-guided AIM-120 AMRAAMs for beyond-visual-range kills"
GG russia, the Su-30 is truly impressive.
Carter Clark
>indigenous data-link
Is this some device that controls the minds of indigenous people making them less drunk and savage?
Ryder Gutierrez
MiG-21 did reasonably well in Vietnam. That's about it.
Benjamin Gonzalez
everyone loves Gripen
Kayden White
also lewd
Jordan Turner
God I FUCKING HATE ANIME
Andrew Gomez
then why are you in this thread?
Tyler Thomas
Jokes on you, Flight High School is drawn by a gook and is as such, not anime.
James Lewis
Buzz off, Ivan
Carson Bell
The Gripen had a Swedish data link called TIDLS, a system that was/is very capable, often promoted as having a significant jamming resistance and generally more capable than the Link 16.
The truth to these claims are hard to verify but TIDLS got ripped out from the Swedish Gripen planes and replaced with Link 16. This generated considerable butthurt in the Swedish air force but the politicians deemed NATO interoperability more important than any benefits of TIDLS and there is some merit to this claim as the Swedish military was at that point, gutted to the point where it was hard pressed to fight itself out of a wet paper bag.
SA got Gripens lacking data links as I remember it, so they where free to install whatever homebrew they could fit in there.
If the SA data link can de-savage the locals remains classified to this day.
Joshua Gutierrez
Because I like planes you twat.
You know, like the gripen, the thing that this thread is about.
Gabriel Richardson
you're good. you can stay
Adrian Reyes
>SA got Gripens lacking data links as I remember it, so they where free to install whatever homebrew they could fit in there
So then are SA gripens not able to interface or coordinate with NATO forces? or am I retarded as I suspect?
>If the SA data link can de-savage the locals remains classified to this day.
bullets tend to work well if it can't.
Tyler Turner
It is important to note that russia still relies on obsolete R-27s as their mainstay for air superiority roles.
The R-77 has not been spotted in the wild other than a propaganda shoot in Syria.
What more is, russia still uses bitch basic Su-27 over the Baltic sea. In any air conflict over the Baltic Sea, the only damage the russian air force would inflict would be to the local eco system, on account of their planes would immediately become burning oil puddles in the sea.
Connor Morris
Yeah it's still a thread on anime website, there are hundreds of military-related sites that aren't inside an anime imageboard so nut up or shut up
Eli Torres
>So then are SA gripens not able to interface or coordinate with NATO forces?
NATO being the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, SA doesn't really have the same need as Sweden for NATO interoperability.
No idea if they managed to mesh their datalinks with Link-16 though. Even if they didn't, Gripen follow many NATO standards, so even if it don't communicate with Link-16, it can probably do joint ops, albeit being hampered.
Isaiah Miller
I think the new Gripen E will use a WAD instead of normal screens. It's possibly the only jet besides F-35 and F-22 with that tech.
Jace Scott
It is kind of impressive that the Gripen can haul four huge fuckoff AShMs while also carrying four A2A missiles for self defense.
It would probably be pretty limited in range doing this though, albeit having a wet center pylon for fuel tanks might offset that a little.
Hudson Brooks
Against Chinkshit which is better? A Block 70ish F-16 or the newest Gripen?
t. asking for a friend
Jackson Murphy
Holy kek did the IAF really want a PR win that badly?
Jaxon Davis
That is the general experience when dealing with poos, appearance is far more important than anything actually useful. The poos will flat out refuse to participate in exercises unless they can walk home with the "victory".
To the west, the "win" is not important, here what people care about is what can ve learnt and testing systems. Things you can gain by playing redfor.
That is why it's so fun to see vatniks lampoon onto poo-in-loo "victories", because when you scratch below the surface you see how horribly you need to gimp the Western planes for the russian made planes to be able to compete.
Anthony Powell
But Jow Forums is not an anime website, it's reddit 2.0
Connor Garcia
Can it actually take off in this configuration?
John Morales
I literally provided a citation which explains how:
>The first can be mitigated somewhat by the use of a single Gripen in the AEW role feeding radar data to the attacking Gripens which operate in EMCON nose-cold mode, with all active transmitting sensors turned off. The Gripen has an impressively small RCS, making it difficult to detect unless the Su-30Ks are burning the sky with their radars on full power, which would make them vulnerable to being detected from far out by the Gripen EW systems.
>The first thing the SAAF would do is send a single Gripen D up near its service ceiling behind the lines, with its radar on full power and the picture being data-linked to the four Gripen Cs in the advance flight. The SAAF Gripens might fly in a wide formation of two each, providing good separation for their EW sensors and the ability to initiate a pincer movement if necessary. The SAAF pilots will constantly adjust positioning to ensure that they’re not outpacing the Gripen D in the AEW role and moving outside its protective radar umbrella.
>Angola’s Su-30Ks carry the relatively old NIIP N001 Myech radar, which features an older conventional mechanically-steered cassegrain antenna and few of the electronic niceties that came in later variants. As a result of its age and widespread use, the radar has been quite well-studied and its capabilities are known. For one, it can detect a 1 m2 – 3 m2 target at between 80 km – 100 km depending on flight profile and when at full power. The Gripen C has a frontal ideal RCS of 0.1 m2, going higher depending on angle, so let’s call it 0.5 m2 to be fair and to account for marketing exaggerations. Simplifying things a lot, that would drop the Su-30K detection range down to 40 km – 50 km at best and the tracking range down to somewhere around 15 km – 20 km.
Mason Garcia
contd
>Note too that the Swedes have been developing and customising the Gripen’s systems to handle new-generation Sukhois and MiGs from the start, as a result of which there is serious capability in the onboard EW systems and radar.
>The Gripen’s PS-05/A, on the other hand, which in this scenario is up at 50 000ft, is said to be able to acquire a Su-30K-sized aircraft at 120km and track it for a firing solution not much later. And the moment the Su-30Ks appear on that radar, the information is immediately sent to the four Gripen Cs flying ahead allowing them to use it to launch Meteor or Marlin missiles. As they’d be about 60 km away from the Flankers and out of detection range and don’t turn on their radars the entire time they won’t be seen until missile release.
>In other words, given current capabilities plus the acquisition of a BVR missile, the Su-30K pilots would get missile launch warnings before they could see a single one of the launch aircraft. They’d be able to detect the Gripen D in the AEW role, but it would be too far away to do anything about and the Meteor has a good probability of kill for a long-range missile. Splash four Flankers.
>This is without the PS-05/A Mk4 and Mk5 upgrades, which double detection and acquisition range. It also ignores the use of the Gripen EW system to jam the N001, which it’s quite effective at as the N001 does not have spectacular peak transmitting power.
Samuel Rodriguez
>Turkey shooted down Russian Su-24
>Turkey turned into Putin bitch, begged for S-400
>US sanction Turkey
Hahaha
Jose Morales
yes
Jose Morgan
Ive always been taught that the Draken was the first supercruiser. Whether this comes from some sort of technical disagreement as to what supercruise entails or something along those lines, i do not know.
Nolan Allen
Yep, it was one of the big selling points of the Gripen E. They stuffed a GE F414 into the Gripen E, the same engine used in the Super Hornet, so it now has the power to carry a substantially increased payload. Granted, while carrying 4 AShMs + 4 A2A missiles, the range is fuck all even with a fuel tank. This would be a problem in the expeditionary missions that the US or UK need to do but from a Swedish perspective it is plenty enough, the limited range is not a problem when the mission is to sink the russian Baltic fleet should it get uppity outside Gotland.
Lincoln Smith
It’s rare to see quality posting on Jow Forums, especially when vatniks are around but here we are.
Jeremiah Rodriguez
TIDLS is a great datalink, but you are wrong if you think it was replaced by link 16. Link 16 (communication in the L-band) is nowhere near TIDLS, and they aren't even in the same category of datalinks. TIDLS is a tactical datalink that allows Gripen to share data within its squadron, whereas link 16 seems to be a way for say, an aircraft to "talk" to a ship or AA-unit etc.
Sweden was unwilling to sell TIDLS, NATO was unwilling to give SA access to L16, so they contracted SAAB to build their own datalink called Link-Za. Link-Za is, to the best of my knowledge comperable with commercially available analogues in function but with the efficiency and reliability that a tailored military solution brings.
Christian Fisher
Jesus, Russian planes suck dick.
Cooper Thomas
South Africa uses Link-ZA which was developed by Thales Advanced Engineering (South Africa) with assistance from Thales (france)[1].
When we got the arms package in 1996 (Gripen, bunch of frigates and subs, helos a jet trainers) we tried to get Link 16 but NATO said "No link-16 for niggers".
>“We asked and were told we would never be allowed access” to NATO’s Links 11, 16 and 22, Hanley says. He adds that SA recently obtained the code for Link 11, which is 20 years old, but he didn’t disclose how.
So we built our own based on Link 11 and upgraded over the years to try modernise, its pretty good:
>For the artillery, it has brought down the time from when an observer spots a target to when the first round is fired at it from six to 10 minutes to just 90 seconds. “You can just about hit a moving truck,” says Hanley.
>One practical application of Link ZA is as catalyst for the SA Air Force’s BAE Systems Mk 120 Hawk LIFT radar-simulation system (RSS), which uses a radio-frequency network established among as many as eight aircraft engaged in an exercise. Each aircraft constantly transmits its position via a Link ZA datalink, and each aircraft's mission computer calculates the positions of the other aircraft relative to itself. That picture is displayed as a real-time radar image on one of each pilot’s three multifunction displays (MFD).
[1] defenceweb.co.za
Brandon Moore
They are talking about S-400 so they get cheaper deal on next gen Patriots Poland is getting now you dumb shit.
Jace Sanchez
better than the F-35 or the SU-50 BUT NOT AS COOL AS THE F/A-18
Daniel Hughes
Not sure about the details but there where definitely butthurt going on in Swedish defense circles during the upgrade to the Gripen C and the NATO integration. I think the TIDLS was not only used as a tactical link between the squadron but also to communicate with the ground control system and IADS network called LuLIS.
I think the switch was done before the LuLIS was capable of handling Link 16 or something to that extent.
Jacob Campbell
I don’t know about Sukhoi, but MiGs just suck so badly. Meme planes if there ever were any.
Jaxon Campbell
At least SAAB managed to figure out proper weapons separation without fucking up their pylons.
Levi Lopez
I heard that Brazil will have their own version or some shit.
Grayson Turner
The last time a Sukhoi tangled with a Swedish contemporary, the Su got outskilled so badly that he plowed his plane into the soup, killing the pilot.
Camden Phillips
>1985
Eh, I was moreso talking about more current day Sukhois, but at least they have some good/decent planes. MiG has always been trash once jet engines became a thing, maybe even beforehand.
Jonathan Russell
But haven’t you heard, MiG will build a new super 6th gen interceptor that will into S-P-A-C-E? MiG 41 I think it was called.
It will be ready any day now.
John Gutierrez
I suppose when you are at complete rock bottom the only way to go is up. Doubt it would be able to reliably reach near space though.
Mason Jones
Mostly correct except that it was the TARAS that was replaced with Link 16.
TARAS did roughly the same thing as Link-16 but it was considered more capable or at least better suited to the Swedish Air Force needs.
Levi Barnes
I doubt it will exist outside kremls propaganda CG department.
Ayden Adams
Poland Patriot is already dead cheap, you idiot.
Hudson Brown
It still costs 5 billion $ and Turkish economy is falling apart.
Samuel Peterson
It falling apart after they signed the deal for S-400.
Nolan Sullivan
yeah, that happened a few times. Soviet pilots tended to overestimate their own capacity and disregard the limitations of their aircraft.
Or perhaps the swedish pilot training was just that crazy. The swedish mortality rate of fighter pilots during the cold war (per flight hour) was something like 10 times higher than the US figure during the 60s, despite not doing a single combat mission.
And thats not due to technical issues either.
Isaiah Parker
Su-15 is an interceptor, imbecile. Pilot's own fault he did that dumb maneuver just to show off balls.
Ian Cook
So either the russian pilots are retarded niggers, the russian training is so abysmal that the pilots don't learn the limitations of their aircraft or the russian jets are inferior pieces of garbage?
I'm leaning towards a combination of all three.
Juan Fisher
>One pilot pulls an unnecessary maneuver, therefore all Russian pilots are "retarded niggers"
Carter Mitchell
The swedes pretty regularly flew daringly close to soviet aircraft, photographing with handheld wide-angle cameras from the cockpit. Generally, the soviets were told to not engage or do any evasive manouvers, precisely because of this reason. The SU-15 was nowhere near as good in the air as a clean SH37, especially since the SU-15s almost always flew with a full combat loads.
The SU-15 pilot was very experienced though, who most likely was lulled into a false sense of security by the previously fairly light manouvers of the 37. When he executed the half-roll, the Su-15 pilot probably just followed out of instinct.
Pictures from this period are publicly available nowadays, here's a picture of the aft cannon of a TU-22. Remember that this is taken by a wide-lense camera with no zoom.
Henry Myers