So did the Russians just stick a few accessories on their ak74 and rename it the ak12...

Yeah. It's a shame, the other one was a real change, a real different design. Now, like the OP said, we basically get a new 74.

I believe they stuck with the simpler 74 design because the original ak-12 models were lacking in some of the reliability tests they did

one can dream

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Is...is that a EOTech?

Whats up with the muzzle break

Improving a semi-auto rifle at this stage in the technology cycle is like developing an improved bolt action rifle in the 1930s.

We're all sitting on our asses waiting for energy weapons. Small arms are such a small portion of US military actions now anyway.

What video?

>>At the the M16 platform was improved
Not since the A2 version

? Russians already use western gear, this isn't the Soviet Union anymore.

I think the barrel is now free-floated.

So many misinformation in this thread. Read my pic before you spout any more stupid shit.

The new topcover already solved that problem.
It is not, the barrel profile and gas block are not AK-74.
>You had one job Ivan
Those design feature war pushed by Zlobin and not Ratnik requirement. Zlobin is a Tula hack who think he can just fuck with Izhevsk people.

> The AK-200 which is what posted, pic related is a later version used in the ratnik trials.
It is not the AK-200. AK-200 is a older program from mid 2000. The AK-12 development only start in 2012 after Zlobin took over Izhmash.

Izhmash already deceived that they will use AK-107 and AK-103-3 for Ratnik, but Zlobin replaced the AK-107 with his design. AK-12 is like a new born, have many problem include reliable. So it failed the test. Kovrov A-545 won Ratnik and Izhmash almost gone bankrupt the second time 10 year.
>Yeah. It's a shame, the other one was a real change, a real different design. Now, like the OP said, we basically get a new 74.

No it is not.

Yes it is.

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The AK-103-3 in Taman division in 2012-2013 as part of Ratnik Evaluation.

At this time AK-12 Zlobin is still a mock up at gun show.

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they love eotechs over there.

another pic.

Zlobin is a fucking hack and i fucking hate him.

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:/ the problem with AK's and modernization is people over thinking it... Hinge the top cover, rotate safety 180 in horizontal and make work like that so it can be adjusted for thumb use, add last round bolt hold open and bolt release and move CH to top forward left position on pistol... Perfect AK... Ergonomic with a bit of luxury and still AK...

>:/ the problem with AK's and modernization is people over thinking it... Hinge the top cover, rotate safety 180 in horizontal and make work like that so it can be adjusted for thumb use, add last round bolt hold open and bolt release and move CH to top forward left position on piston*... Perfect AK... Ergonomic with a bit of luxury and still AK...

Fuckin typos

>rotate safety 180 in horizontal and make work like that so it can be adjusted for thumb use
unnecessary

> add last round bolt hold open and bolt release
Saiga and Verp have that but they never put them on their military gun. Only Zlobin is stupid enough to add it to his AK.
>Perfect AK
No

>, add last round bolt hold open
why

Not that user but it would definitely speed up reloads with a push button bolt release like the ar style.

Internally it has been completely revamped and it's much more accurate than the AK-74M2.
But yeah, the charging handle still being on the right side is retarded considering the original AK-12 project included ambidextrous(switchable) charging handle, bolt-hold-open and bolt-catch.

> (You)
>>rotate safety 180 in horizontal and make work like that so it can be adjusted for thumb use
>unnecessary

If we're going by necessity then just use an old 1950's era AK... The safety adjustment is to make it batter for a thumb used safety. Technically you could just run a Golani/Galil/Rk style safety but this way you don't get the dumb ass reverse order of pushing the safety forward for safe.

>> add last round bolt hold open and bolt release
>Saiga and Verp have that but they never put them on their military gun. Only Zlobin is stupid enough to add it to his AK.

Zlobin, and Stoner, and Saive, and Romanians, and Hungarians, doesn't seem stupid... Last round bolt hold open isn't a stupid thing, specially with a quick bolt release button... Placed well it could make AK reloads lightning fast... Hell even just the hold open could be good.

>>Perfect AK
>No

Agree to disagree...

And while on Zlobin, his design was actually decent but Russians lack the technology needed to make it viable, if it was made in the US with the US manufacturing capabilities, it would actually be a really good gun...

>tfw no kalash 2012 to kill nosalis with

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yes and modern Russian quality assurance means its the equivalent of a child with a credit card and ebay sticking slightly better than made for airsoft crap all over a gun
All intermediate calibre semis whether AK based or AR based are mass produced for stupid sub 300 Meters does everything but in a mediocre way guns for rifle squads using fire and manoeuvre. Neither particularly accurate or with their carry more shitty rounds for squad suppression cartridges particularly interesting.
Fucking vidya game shooters will cry. As regards OP and this pile of shit its more russiaa stronk PR to be consumed internally in Russia for putins crumbling slave state. Truth is Russia is disintegrating and all the airsoft add ons on a crappy soviet era design for mass infantry action won't make any difference to that.

The original AK-12 included all the things you mentioned, thumb ambi thumb safety, bolt-release, etc... then Russian government went "nu-uh, too expensive to embezzle!" and Kalinishkov made this new one which is just an improved AK-74M2.

This thing is beauty

Attached: AM-17.jpg (1600x1065, 144K)

Nah there were some QC issues and the safety was stiff as fuck... The issue is the original Zlobin AK-12 was too much of a redesign. He baseically went and redid all of the gun. Needlessly... One can adjust the original design to fit everything and with minimal tooling adjustments make it. Cheaper and better quality than Zlobins AK

Pretty aesthetic.

>etc... then Russian government went "nu-uh, too expensive to embezzle!"
The problem is not money because AEK-971 won the Ratnik in 2014 and it cost as much as Zloblin AK-12.

>Nah there were some QC issues and the safety was stiff as fuck.
IT is not QC problem when your rifle is still on prototype state.

Zlobin try to redesign AK but he touch the most important part that make AK successful: the bolt and the receiver.

AK bolt is what make it reliable and AK receiver what make it cheap.

You can add BHOD and every bullshit you can think off but never tough the bolt and receiver.

This whole thing can be easily summed up as a basic mistake on Russian Militaries part... They're trying to copy US instead of merely taking inspiration from the US and adjusting around what they have. If they stopped putting so much airsoft style shit on the guns and learned from US rather than trying to out right copy, they could have good equipment.

wrong on all counts

>And while on Zlobin, his design was actually decent but Russians lack the technology needed to make it viable
No it is not, thumb safety and bolt hold open device is nothing new for Russian , especially Izhmash. Many of their gun have those.

Zlobin is just a hack and i am glad that Izmash fired him and replaced him with Molot director

You mean the A-545? It's only for special forces, the reason is because of it's cost. I'm just curious to see how the Spetsnaz will deal with the fugly buttstock and how the customization will look like, since they can't live without customizing every single part of their guns.

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Kind of agree on that actually. He needlessly redesigned parts. A BHOD is simple and easy to add. Romanians had them. Moving the CH is fairly easy, small adjustment. Hinges top cover they already do on AKMSUs and AK-74u's... The only real rework needed was the safety...

>This whole thing can be easily summed up as a basic mistake on Russian Militaries part.
Every gun take part in the Ratnik were adopted in 2014. That include the VSSM, ASM, SVDM, PKPM.

They all successful passed the test in 2014. Only the AK-12 fail those test.

If it anyone fault, it not the Russian military

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Problem with the usual AK thumb safety is the retarded travel of safe being pushed forward and fire modes being towards the user. Makes them impractical. If it could be spun 180° and made to function with a sane selector order it would be epic.

Lol ok MoD if you want to be specific. But they are sort of the Russian Military... Without them it'd kinda fall apart...

>the reason is because of it's cost.
The new AK-12 is not even that cheaper than the A-545.

According to TASS in 2015, A-545 price is 50 000 ruble.

The AK-200, the second gun on this pic cost more than that at 58 000 ruble. So i don't think the AK-12 is less than 50 000 ruble.
> I'm just curious to see how the Spetsnaz will deal with the fugly buttstock and how the customization will look like, since they can't live without customizing every single part of their guns.
They can just use the AK-12, it have almost every thing they need.

Attached: file.png (839x535, 461K)

The stock look pretty cool.

I hope they use the same polymer as magful because Izmash is trying to copy magpul

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That's much less retarded... Stock more inline with recoil impulse and not beard weld height...

What the fuck happened to the neat angular looking AK-12?

Was a poor design... When put into context...

Except im not dipshit.

Do Russians have something against proper cheekwelds? Throw a aimpoint micro on there and have a cowitness

They actually do...

I just want the recoilless 545 one ;_;

:/ build one...

"We"

But nobody outside of gun gamers fauxcommandos give a shit about that

>it was made in the US with the US manufacturing capabilities, it would actually be a really good gun...
We barely make AKs better than a basic WASR for under $1500

Russian military procurement in a nutshell

>let's make some new shit to impress the world!
>oh shit it's too expensive
>let's give up and just add some minor improvements to the cold war stuff we already have

Rinse and repeat. I am at the point where I can't even stand hearing anything about that shithole.

why the Russians didn't adopted the ak-107 and ak-103?

Attached: ak107-1.jpg (650x216, 13K)

Does that mean we can finally get some surplus AK74 variants on the European market Russia?

The 12 is pretty much an improved, more tacticool version of the 74, and that is what makes it good. In other regards, fuck you with a 12 foot cactus laced in salted lemon juice Bill Shitton, same with his crony Yeltsin.
>39162532
Every fucking thread with (you)

Someone hasn't heard about the embargo on Russian exports since the war with Ukraine in 2014

Somebody hasn't heard that Russian products still make it into the JewU through intermediaries.

Russians are too retarded to build their own equivalent.

Russian guns clearly don't make it anywhere, that's why the market for Russian guns has become so scarce, and the price for used guns has gone through the roof.

In cold Russian winter cheekweld become real cheek weld.

For a while they were just sticking with the old style mounts that were above the irons. Outside of that the local red dots and eotechs the like aren't really cowitness material.

Besides, units that want hsld mounts can just order them from the west

Yes they do, I could even buy a Saiga-9, which was only put into production in 2014 and came onto the market in 2015.

>optic on the dust cover
why?

>non recip charging handle
You're retarded.

>pushbutton mag release
Paddle release and it's lockup is infinity times stronger, for like .3s slower

>thumb safety
ok

Hold open is unnecessary. Everybody already only starts "emergency reload" when gun doesn't shooty. It does slow it down a touch, though.

Well EOTech didnt want to take a loss with all those returns from the units with wandering zeros. So instead of replacing the internals, just sell them to the slavs.

>In Russian winter, cheek weld becomes welded cheek.

Fixed it for you

It weights less without the adapter rail. The new dust cover is tight and doesn't lose zero.

Conclusion, Ak-12 = All hype, no delivery.

They promised to bring the AK to the 21st century and yet they just added rails and a new buttstock, something that any Ak-74 could already have.

It has a dustcover with rails that doesn't lose zero, a 2-round burst feature and free-float barrel.
However, there actually exists a kit for older AKs that gives it the new AK-12 furniture, so you are partially right.

The first AK12 was made by a Russian, so it was a disappointment like all other Russian arms. The second AK12 was developed with help from superior Chinese researchers that is why it is more impressive than the first.

>5.45mm AK-12 and its 7.62mm AK-15 version retain the traditional Kalashnikov automatic gas-tight automation with lock locking and can use stores from previous generations of 5.45mm AK-74 and 7.62mm AKMs respectively.

>The gas outlet, the gas tube, the receiver and the trunk are substantially redesigned in order to increase the accuracy of the firing in all modes. The gas tube is rigidly fixed in the receiver, it is not removed during disassembly and has in the front part a detachable plug for cleaning.

>The handguard and the barrel are rigidly fixed on the receiver and do not touch the barrel (a so-called “free floating barrel”), which increases the stability and accuracy of shooting. Picatinny rails helps the mounting of various aiming devices – red dot sights and laser target designators.
To give them a bit of credit they did a little bit more than just slapping rails on a AK-74

How is the barrel free floated with the gas tube/piston always putting pressure on the barrel?

Never ever. Also i always found the recoil stuff to be pretty silly, it's no wonder Americans never tried to copy it, it's so gimmicky.

Free floated in that it isn’t affected by anything that isn’t part of the action

>push button mag release
Am I the only one that hates these? They open you up to mag drop mishaps when under stress, or even when you're not.

Inb4 some nodrills paper shooter comes along claiming otherwise. It happens quite regularly to plenty of people during AR classes.

Totally agree on it mang.

I like push button releases but I think there should be a bit of friction in removing it instead of it just free falling. So if you press it inadvertently then it just wont fall out.

No, it is based on the ak-400.

Paddle style is best style because it is ambidextrous. Good for lefty shooters.

The new KM-AK stock have hole for cheek riser. But the cheek riser is rare as fuck.

Read the thread, retard.

Zlobin being a dick and replaced the AK-107 with the AK-12.

>the cheek riser for the KM-AK stock

So i will run down on the AK model related to this thread.

-First is the old AK-200 with hinged top cover from 2008. This gun also have a weir grip safety and also the first gun with AK-9 hand guard.
-Second is the AK-107 and AK-103-3(first model with free floating barrel) that took part in Ratnik in 2012.
-Then the Zlobin AK-12 in 2012. Zlobin replace the AK-107 with this gun. This move almost bankrupt Izhmash.
-The AK-103-3( second) is the gun that took part in Ratnik with the AK-12 Zlobin. It later became the new AK-200. This gun have hinged top but no traditional AK-100 barrel.
-The KM-AK Obves kit is a upgrade kit for old AK. It improve ergonomic and such. Kit include hinged rail cover, pistol grip, rail handguard, new flash hinder, new AR-15 styles stock, new safety with trigger finger paddle, VFG. Many element from this kit latter adopted for later gun.
-After fired Zlobin, Izhmash replaced him with Molot director. This man said fuck Zlobin, and replaced the AK-12 with AK-400. AK-400 is the first AK-103-3 with KM-AK kit.

So now the Russian Army have adopted the KM-AK kit to upgrade Soviet built AK-74 from the 80, and new production AK-12/AK-15. The Late AK-103-3 later combined with KM-AK kit and became the new AK-200.

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Wouldn't it just be cheaper to buy 200,000 Magpul MOEs, put it on their Ak-74s and call it a day?

Don't think sensibly... It's not the Russian way
...

why is that mans right hand bigger than his left? also do all Russian teenagers look like potatos?

youtube.com/watch?v=_9oICeb7oww

Weight difference between AK-103-3 first movel/AK-400/AK-12 vs AK-103-3 second model/AK-200 second model.

The first is AK-12

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And this is the AK-200

forgot pic

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Both gun side by side

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What do you expect from sub human slavs?