Ok Jow Forums lets settle this once and for all which is better

For ban states, suppressor use and densely populated areas, .45
For free states, shtf, and commonality, 9mm

>.45 is inherently subsonic.
This is a stupid meme that means nothing.

>round travels under the speed of sound so no supersonic crack
>meme

>I prefer subsonic for my defensive handguns.
Do you have some broscience to justify this or are you just autistic?

There's no such thing as a cartridge which is 'inherently' subsonic. 230gr .45 ACP IS subsonic, but there are plenty of supersonic loads for .45 ACP. Dipshit.

JMB wanted 9mm, but the Army insisted on 45. I'd love to see a 1911 that's maybe 85% of full size and designed for 9mm. I guess that's a HiPoint, right.

they both fail at body armor

the one that loads into the platform which you can shoot more accurately (in my case, 1911)

>JMB wanted 9mm, but the Army insisted on 45. I'd love to see a 1911 that's maybe 85% of full size and designed for 9mm. I guess that's a HiPoint, right.
You mean Hi Power.

Every other 9mm pistol I can find either has a trigger that is too heavy or too creepy. That's why I went with the 1911 in 45.

>Every other 9mm pistol I can find either has a trigger that is too heavy or too creepy
I guess you didn't look very hard. There's literally thousands of options out there and plenty of aftermarket triggers for the guns that don't have the trigger you want out of the box.

erm yes the FN gun, dunno what happened there.

single actions are the only acceptable pistols.

The one you shoot better with. Close this thread now please.

9mm is cheap, and I'm more comfortable with a gun I can practice with often versus one I am niggardly with ammo.

There are plenty of single actions or DA/SAs on the market my man.

.45 always produces more recoil than 9mm (assuming they are being fired from otherwise identical guns). It is not possible to "shoot better" with .45 unless you generate some field that warps the laws of physics.

I think you mean cz75

haven't held one of those, but i'm a fan of the design. wouldn't mind having a 75SA, probably, but i don't foresee ever giving up the 1911.

I think by inherently he meant the majority of .45 ACP ammo you’ll find.

Are you this upset all the time?

Not him, but a .45 with a suppressor fireing subsonic rounds or a "cat sneeze" pistol is favorable indoors with no ear pro. I only say indoors because that's where my "defensive" hand guns would come into play. Butt fuck that guy for his fagotry though. That's not a typo either, by the way.

And most of them have heavy triggers. 4 lbs should be the maximum for a handgun. 2 lbs for a rifle.

Their both adequate rounds that have similar first shot incapacitation probability. Granted, more capacity can't hurt but more engagements don't go over 3 shots so it really doesn't matter.

He's not being a dipshit. The standard 230gr ball ammo come out at about 800 fps. Yes you can buy faster ammo, but this is the "standard"

That pic is bullshit. Semi auto pistols have moving barrels that are inconsistent due to the rechambering motion after each shot. Only a revolver or semi auto pistol designed specifically for precision like the ruger could ever achieve something like that

>what are barrel bushings and locking lugs

Llama made exactly that a 9mm 1911 that was about 15 to 20% smaller than a 1911 in 45. Biggest piece of shit I ever owned.

This, friend bought a .45 because he can't own standard 9mm mags.

Light triggers only matter for those with absolutely terrible trigger control. If your trigger pull is under 10lbs, it doesn't matter how heavy it is.

It's inherently slow in the sense that its case capacity is small relative to its large bullet, which is why it uses fast burning powder.

Heavy triggers are acceptable to people how have low standards of accuracy. I like being able to put all the bullets through the same hole in the paper, so I use light triggers.

>t there are plenty of supersonic loads for .45 ACP.
No there aren't. There are a tiny, tiny handful of supersonic .45 loads, and you will literally never find them unless you order them online.
Again, that is only due to bad trigger control. Light triggers are a crutch for bad shooters.

*who have low standards

>Again, that is only due to bad trigger control. Light triggers are a crutch for bad shooters.
Regardless of how good or bad you are, why would you want to make it more difficult when you could make it easier?

It's simple, if you're not a complete nogunz, shooting a trigger that is a reasonable weight isn't difficult.

I think people who jerk it over trigger weight are all nogunz, or spend too much time dryfiring, not enough actually shooting. The gun I am most accurate with is my Swedish Mauser with a 7lbs trigger, not my AR with a Geissele trigger, although it is quite close.

>muh inherently subsonic
>needs supressor the size of a rifle to be actually somewhat quieter

9mm is far better for supressed use. 147gr and 158gr loads do exist.

Fired off a bag, I'm sorry you can't shoot worth a fuck.

Whichever round you, as an individual, can get better shot placement with.

.44 magnum is best

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>It's simple, if you're not a complete nogunz, shooting a trigger that is a reasonable weight isn't difficult.
You are evading the question by changing the comparative adjective into a positive one. I ask you the question once again: Why wouldn't you want your gun to be EASIER to shoot?
>I think people who jerk it over trigger weight are all nogunz
That is objectively wrong. There are many competition shooters who probably shoot more in one practice session than you will in a year, and they pay top dollar for the best triggers.

Your cartridge has nothing to do with shot placement. Shot placement is about knowing how to aim and where to aim. That's it. If you can that with one cartridge, you can do that with ANY cartridge.

Different calibers have different recoils. Different handguns have different ergonomics and sight pictures. If you've put 10k+ rounds downrange with, say, a Glock 21, and only 500 rounds downrange with a 92fs, you're probably going to get better results with the G21. And vice versa.

>Why wouldn't you want your gun to be EASIER to shoot?
Because it isn't. Clean break, short reset>light weight Light weight is the nogunz quality of triggers, because it's the only thing they can feel. It's what someone who doesn't actually shoot notices first in a trigger.

>There are many competition shooters who probably shoot more in one practice session than you will in a year, and they pay top dollar for the best triggers.
Most popular types of competition shooting do not involve precision shooting. Fast target acquisition and transition between targets are instead emphasized.

The types that do involve precision shooting, like olympic shooting, are for fucking nerds who suck the fun out of everything.

I don't know why I'm bothering to argue with you, since you'd say something as stupid as
>4 lbs should be the maximum for a handgun. 2 lbs for a rifle.
What guns do you even own that fit that criteria?

>what guns do you own that meet that criteria
probably a 1911 or riced out Glock + precision rifle.

>Clean break, short reset>light weight
False dichotomy fallacy. Having a clean break and short reset is not exclusive of a light weight. In fact, there is probably a correlation between them.

>Most popular types of competition shooting do not involve precision shooting. Fast target acquisition and transition between targets are instead emphasized.
Red herring. You did not address my point that people who demand light triggers are not nogunz. In fact, they probably own more guns than you, and they almost certainly shoot more than you.

>Different calibers have different recoils
Which has nothing to do with accuracy. You can be just as accurate with a hard kicking gun as with a 22.

>Different handguns have different ergonomics and sight pictures
True, but now you are talking about different guns, not different calibers. The original point was about calibers.

>Which has nothing to do with accuracy. You can be just as accurate with a hard kicking gun as with a 22.
Agreed. You can be accurate with a lot of different calibers. My point is that practice trumps caliber, as long as the caliber is something that can actually penetrate deep enough to drop someone. Between 45 or 9, the only thing that matters is what you're better at shooting.

Ok I'll chime in since you all have been waitig so long..

The .45 is better.

Case closed, its settled

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What guns do you own that fit your criteria? I'm especially interested in the rifle.
Because I guarantee I own more that fit your terms than you do, yet I don't see them as particularly necessary

>In fact, there is probably a correlation between them.
There isn't.
>You did not address my point that people who demand light triggers are not nogunz.
There are two groups that do: nogunz, and ricers. You are the former. A very large amount of those people also shoot with DA/SA guns, which you dismissed in ignorance.
>In fact, they probably own more guns than you, and they almost certainly shoot more than you.
Incorrect. A very small subset of competition shooters do.

Your opinion that rifles should only have a 2lbs trigger is especially interesting and I can only imagine you've never actually shot a rifle with a 2lbs trigger before. I wouldn't want one on a hunting rifle, or any rifle meant for self defense. I'd only want it on a waste of money long range target shooting rifle.

Your point of view is narrow, and focuses on the most impractical sport uses of firearms.

99% of people defending .45 literally just assume the cartridge is a "manstopper", refuse to provide any evidence, and when people bring up evidence that .45 doesn't really kill people deader than 9mm with fewer shots or in less time they close their eyes and put their fingers in their ears.

I don't have anything against .45 but its proponents are fucking retards.

.45 ees beeger boolet