Challenger 2

Now that the Challenger 2 has been improved through the "Black Night" and "Megatron" upgraded. Where does Jow Forums think it fits in compared to the T-90 and M-1?

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It was already better than both.

Improved? I was under the impression that Megatron was a proof of concept upgrade chassis and Black Night hasn't been confirmed.

theres videos of black night on youtube

I was under the impression that Megatron was the leader of the Decepticons. Is there something about this prototype they're not telling us?

Yes, I've seen them and evaluated it, I thought it was still in the discussion stage with the MOD, because I'm certain the Challenger 2 LEP wasn't exclusively for BAe.

Megatron was just an example of all the kit that the British army has available to fit to the tank. Much of it has now been replaced as new gear is constantly under evaluation.

Black knight is one of the two competing designs for the life extension.

Comparing any tanks is retarded and the threads are easily the worst on Jow Forums.

>improved
>still the same 1990s composite armor package
>no news APFSDS
>19 hp/tonne ratio

Their L30A1 is an evolutionary dead end, it's probably never going to have a better penetrator than their 1990s stuff.

It wasn't a bad tank in its time, but its aged beyond the point that upgrades can keep it competitive with newer tanks. The British gov are probably just reluctant to shell out for whatever the next iteration of the Leopard is (and the Challenger's replacement will have to be a foreign design).

>buying a new leopard iteration in 2018
Literally why? Leopard 2 is also nearing the end of its' service life. There will be a new European MBT by 2030, likely.

those are two test rigs the actual chally 2 has not recived any upgrade yet and it certainly wont get all the stuff from both those.

so yeah nah we cant say shit about how a future chally 2 upgrade would compare to the future t90 or whatever

I'm saying that the British government doesn't wank to spend money now on replacing its fleet of battle tanks, and will probably wait until Germany (and probably rest of Europe) settle on whatever replaces the Leopard.

lmao not even close

Nothing good will ever come out of europe again.
>no combat experience
>fancy ideas

Should just be replaced at this point. The modernizations required to keep it truly competitive would basically require building a whole new tank anyway.
To be fair if he's talking about the original M1 and original T-90, he's correct.

Black Knight is just a proposal right now. I think rheinmetall is competing with BAE systems for the upgrade program, but we haven't seen their version yet.
There's other upgrades rumoured as well, such as improving the powerpack. This one is just to remove obsolescence when it comes to imaging and sensor equipment, with the current proposal adding some kind of APS too.

>Improvement means tank gets covered in ERA

Where Slavs really so far ahead of the West?

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> no combat experience
> British military has literally had people deployed in warzones and conflicts almost every year for over a century bar maybe three

Whatever you're smoking, I want some.

>Improved? I was under the impression that Megatron was a proof of concept upgrade chassis and Black Night hasn't been confirmed.

Correct, the UK hasn't decided yet whether BAE or Rheinmetall will be the one to upgrade the Challenger 2.

M1A2 SEP V whatever is the worlds best MBT as it stands. Until the LEP for the CR2, it didn't even have an independent thermal sight for the commander, limiting H/K abilities especially during night operations. The rifled gun is a dead end, HEAT-MP can do everything HESH can and the short(ish) titanium carbide penetrators are a dead end. The turret needs a complete overhaul of the interior to be able to accommodate 120mm NATO shells, and the dumb ass auto elevate of the main gun to make the loader's life a tad easier is and will be a killer in an actual tank-on-tank engagement. The miserable HP/ton ratio and its 1200 HP diesel need to be fixed, stat. For a tank of its weight, it needs a minimum 1500 HP and 22-23 HP per ton.

It was a good tank in the 90ies and early 2000s during the one-sided Desert Storm and early Iraq invasion era, but with the slow shift back to Cold War style strategy, training and deployments the Challenger is lagging behind.

All of that being said, it is still leagues better than the T-90. The T-90 would be a better tank for asymmetric warfare and the concept of combined arms micro teams, but we'll see.

Why would he compare it to old versions of tanks that aren't in service anymore?

Imo the most important part of the upgrade is the APS