Why does it seem like grizzly bears have become almost video game monster tier as far as what guns it takes to reliably stop them? When people talk about what type of gun is necessary to reliably stop one, .44 magnum from a revolver is regularly treated as if it is comparable to .380 vs a human with people constantly insisting that you should go with something larger. At the same time, there are regular stories of people getting away with using pistol calibers such as 10mm or even 9mm. Is there any scientific testing for what it actually takes to stop a grizzly bear, or are all of these claims just coming from stories of a few encounters combined with large amounts of people who have never even seen a grizzly bear going on about what they think they'd need? From what I've read, a shot to the CNS is one of the main suggestions for stopping one when defending yourself. The idea that you should be carrying at least a .44 magnum revolver with many people insisting that you need more gun to simply make a hole in the skull of a grizzly bear seems ridiculous.
Mythical grizzly bears
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Meme, nothing in North America can survive 10 7.62 rounds to the chest
We literally dont even call them by their original name anymore. For fear of it making one appear.
Bear means "brown thing." Think about that.
We call them polar browns, black browns, and grizzly browns. Just because we were so horrified.
Bears are some of Nature's boss monsters and you would do best to learn this before meeting one. The only other land mammals even comparable in North America are moose/elk.
>39860053
No one actually shoots bears man, just carry bear spray. Not that hard.
Not even a canadian?
Fancy little trick for you:
If you're ever hiking innawoods and you find a pile of bear droppings, you can easily tell whether it's from a black bear or a brown bear.
A black bear's poop will have little bits of undigested berries and greens.
A brown bear's poop will have little bits of undigested dog collars and smells like hot peppers.
I see them all the time. 10mm.
Aww he looks cute! Id trade it in my dog to give it a belly rub. Preferably from the outside uwu
They're very big, very powerful animals and the only time people hear about them are when the news reports some retarded getting mauled because he tried to take a selfie with their cubs.
Why do you think people act like they're some hidden superboss?
>"At some point, Mark Uptain emptied the bear spray he had in a holster on his thigh at the attacking grizzly. The investigators could smell the bear spray on the attacking grizzly's head a day later when she had charged them and they had killed her."
ammoland.com
It's partly our collective memory. Have you ever seen a bear up close? Big, fast, strong, ferocious, pain tolerant, claws and teeth, natural wrestlers/combatants (you get on a dogs back or an alligator out of water - you've won. That's the trick to 'alligator wrestling". Bears fight like huge people, with claws.)
I don't know if this is BS or not, but an old man who reminded me of Hemingway (he was a cowboy, a prizefighter, a commercial fisherman, drank his way around Mexico), told me they used to fight black bears vs. bulls in Mexico. The used to remove the bears teeth and claws and the bear still won 9 out of 10 times.
"The God Bear" People probably have a collective memory of when our ancestors had to deal with "cave bears". A healthy fear of bears is smart.
Just keep a carcajou as a pet and you're fine.
If I was walking around in the woods I'd be taking .45-70. There's not a damn thing on earth that round can't kill in one clean shot, except maybe a whale, but the chances of seeing them in North American woods are slim. A semi auto .308 or rifled 12ga with slugs would do fine too.
Time to die user.
I would remove elk from that list because how often do you hear of elk attacking people?
I'd rather face a tyrant from resident evil than a 1000lb coastal grizzly.
Less often, but they're also pretty rare. There's something like 72k of them in Canada, whereas there are between 500k and 1m moose in Canada. If you were in a situation where an elk DID attack you, would you not be shitting yourself?
There’s a lot more elk in America, a little over 1 million.
Neat.
>There's not a damn thing on earth that round can't kill in one clean shot
How clean? Because it'd need to be pretty damn clean to kill an elephant in one shot.
Bro, the Tyrant is dumbed down in the original games because of the garbage combat system. True-to-lore Tyrants that you find in the later games with better combat are fucking crazy.
I'd totally fight a PS1 Tyrant instead of a bear, though.
>Bear means "brown thing." Think about that.
Reminds me of something else nobody wants to appear.
Lots of older British safari guides culled elephants back in the day with rifles that were the equivalent of the .308 Win
Bears are no joke. Here in costal NC we get +700lb black bears. They ate known to kill hounds and are as big as most brown bears. Here is a 650lb bear killed last week. I tote a Ruger New model Blackhawk in 45 Colt loaded with 300gr JHP +p+ Underwoods.
To further answer your question, without massive trauma and immediate CNS shutdown it may maul, maim or kill you. Or a valuable game animal is lost in think brush and you better have some brass buttons to head into the thicket after one of thoes big bastards after you've gut shot it. So yeah big heavy bullets moving fast are cruicial. Pic related.
Nothing can survive 10 straight 7.62 shots to the chest you fuckwit.
Who has time to shoot ten times? Or take a rifle down from being slung over a shoulder. 762 has all the leathality needed in the wrong package. Who hunts at high ready? Nah I take a pistol in a chest rig
>Here in costal NC we get +700lb black bears.
Holy fucking dog shit.
We actually have the largest in the world. And the current world record at 880lbs. Killed not far from where I hunt in 1998. Every year we have several that break 600. Pic is my Gascon Bluetick on her first squirrel hunt this morning.
it's the largest predatory animal in north america
>regularly using pistol calibers such as 10mm
10mm is extremely powerful
>a shot to the CNS is one of the main suggestions
bears are fast as fuck, they can cover 30 meters in under 2 seconds. CNS/brain box shots aren't easy especially while you're distracted by pooping your pants, so wound diameter and penetration to get through a ton of hide, fat, and muscle and into the chest cavity is a good thing
Good looking dog.
As to bears, I was hiking with a friend when we happened upon a grizzly and her pups who had apparently been sleeping until we got close. She woke up mad and aggressive. I whipped out my little .22 mag pocket pistol as my friend and I backed slowly away. My friend saw it and laughed. I'm pretty sure that's what triggered the bear to charge. I took careful aim, squeezed off a round, and jogged to safety. My friend didn't make it, though. It's hard to run with a fresh bullet hole in your kneecap.
Here in West NC they don't get barely half that size
Bravo sir, bravo
I think it's because of what the need is with bears, it's not that you can't kill a bear with 9mm or 45 or even 22, it's that you need it to die as close to instantly as possible, while you're shitting yourself because it's charging you at 30mph(44feet per second). You might literally have under a second to recognize the threat, draw, aim, fire, and the penalty for failing is reenacting the revenant for the last moments of your life. So basically while a lot of things would definitely work, with correct shot placement, you don't want to leave it all down to your own skill when you're on the last 5 miles of a 36 mile hike, tired, soaked, cold, hungry and carrying a pack that was 40lbs when it was dry. Also level 80 murder bears are literally immune to anything less than 44
>t.bear
>10mm is extremely powerful
It's comparable to .357 magnum, and significantly weaker than the .44 magnum that people claim is absolute minimum you should be carrying.
This. You are stacking the deck in your favor. With lead.
Sometimes during sleep overs I make the other Jow Forumsommandos look in the mirror in a dark room with nothing more than a little candle for light and make them loudly say grizz*y be*r 3 times
Holy fuck that’s a good girl right there
Thanks her name is Magnolia!
/Thread
I think a lot of it depends on how committed the bear is to hurting you. If it's just curious almost any round will cause it to rethink. If it's mad, bigger is better with really no upper limit. Bears are tough as hell, even little bears. We only have black bears around me so I carry either a. 30-30 or a 12 gauge when I'm in the woods. If I has Grizzlies around you better believe I'm getting something more potent.
We literally named northpole "place with the bears", and southpole "this place is away from the bears"
Are you really? Keep in mind that larger calibers will have more recoil, and more recoil means less followup shots. Using a larger caliber than what would work just means you're handicaping yourself by making it harder to get followup shots.
Don't be a little bitch and use proper technique, especially in situations where you won't have time to empty your mag.
Except the difference is Black bears and Grizzly bears are completely different in how they act around humans. I live in a rural area and I've literally swiped a black bears head because the dumb fuck will spend hours looking at our sealed garbage bin.
Unless its a very desperate bear or you managed to fall onto its cubs in the bush they wont even come close to trying to maul you.
Meanwhile a Grizzly has no concept of a bluff charge basically and will "leave you alone" just to walk a few miles and flank you again on purpose.
People with a lot more experience than the vast majority of Jow Forums have been mauled by bears while carrying. Unless you have dead center aim and can get on target fast with multiple rounds good luck.
I know a girl personally who was attacked by a brown bear, she still has ptsd of its claws going into her like nothing was there or the sound of feeling your bones snap like when you fumble around with a chicken wing.
This. Not only should you have the right tool, you should be practiced with using it. Magnum handguns can be shot quickly and accurately, just maybe not by you.
You are absolutely correct, until you wound a black bear, then shits hairy. Albeit not Grizzly level but we're still talking the same necessary tools and tactics.
The problem is getting those follow up shots you retard. You may only be able to get one in and it'll have to count whereever it hits. It's not a fucking video game, there isn't a health bar, and bears can surprisingly take alot if it all goes wrong, hell even when all goes right.
Loled at health bar. This guy gets it. When it comes down to it you better hope you put a big enough pill through it's lunchbox or you get cool scars to show the ladies... If you aren't savagly killed and eaten.
is that the one from New Hanover County?
our fucking boarhogs like that monster that was killed out in sampson county arent small either.
and we have those damn lions that people laugh about till it eats their dogs and tears apart their doors trying to get into their houses out in Stanly County.
bears are the enraged horny homicidal retards of the animal world. you cant reason or scare an enraged retard, the best you can do is just kill the head and hope to god the body dies quick.
There a brown bears that haven't been killed by 6 rounds of .300 Win Mag to the chest.
Pamlico actually. Wilmington north to Washington and West to Kinston is the mongo bear-muda triangle. Loads of +600lbers
I went to school with some guys from out in Delco, that had horror stories of bears tearing up their henhouses and one that killed a cow in the spring when they were kids. this wasnt a calf either, this was a full grown cow.
and in closing fuck boarhogs and those godrotted cougars/lions/mountain lions/panthers.
Absolutely man I'm not surprised down here on the coast they do some crazy stuff to fish farms. A fella down east years back woke up to one in his kitchen and killed it with a 12 gauge. I've looked and looked and I can't find the newspaper clipping. Anyone who thinks black bears are nothing to worry about hasn't experienced these monsters down here
there was a fish hatchery that does those pond restocking that had a black bear plunder it back in 04 in Moore County that had their shit tore up. it wasnt quite the size of the demons you have, but it was a big bitch. it tore down chain fence like it wasnt shit. bent the poles and all.
there's lots of big as fuck animals along the Lumber river too. those Lumbee boys out of Robeson county have horror stories about big as fuck bears, a black panther that was 7 feet long from head to ass and bigger than his horse, god knows how many bigfoot sightings, and gators. these are the guys that have those pot farms in the deep woods and moonshine stills. they arent going to report none of this shit to the cops or some faggy bigfoot groups.
the one guy I knew as a kid who my dad bought lots of drugs from out in Shannon, had a panther pelt that covered a queen sized bed. he killed it himself, had Polaroids of it preskinning and had the whole skull, and the claws. it was fucking huge. he's a big scary dude too, and he said it was like coming up to the devil in the dark. that pelt had a shitload of holes in it.
Thats where the Glock 20 comes in
moose kill more people than bears.
100% Horseshit.
>muh propper techinque
Propper technique doesn't make you able to fire a .454 Cassul as fast as a .357 magnum while still maintaining a reasonable level of accuracy.
>especially in situations where you won't have time to empty your mag.
I'm not talking about mag dumping. A a fast followup shot is more likely to hit something and actually make a difference than a poor shot with a bullet that has more energy behind it.
>You may only be able to get one in and it'll have to count whereever it hits
And if that's a poor shot, than going overboard on what you're shooting it with still won't make a difference. On the other hand, a lighter recoiling cartridge that can potentially give you another shot while still penetrating far enough to stop the bear will.
>there isn't a health bar
Hence why considering what's actually necessary to penetrate far enough is important rather than insisting on carrying the largest gun possible as if that will cause a significantly more damage. Especially when most people select ammunition designed for deep penetration alone when it comes to defending against bears.
100% believable, since there are retards who think simply using a bigger bullet will save them even if they have poor shot placement.
>go through the fog gate on the Alaskan coast
>hear that roar as the health bar appears on the bottom of my screen
>It's already charging as I draw my +5 Chaos Ruger Redhawk
>Uses command grabs whenever I go to sip estus
Fucking bear is worse than Ornstein and Smough.
This if you masturbate frequently your wrists should be toned enough.
>even if they have poor shot placement.
Its 6 rounds to the chest how is that shitty placement?
Shooting paper with your ar on a sunny day at the range isn't the same as being charged my 1000 pounds of pure hate 6 feet from you in all sorts of terrain and weather conditions. Noone is saying just shoot a big gun and hit anywhere, but getting a very precise kill shot with a high velocity, small caliber isn't practical to ask for in all defense situations, even if you can get a second chance. Also noone is saying use only use the biggest gun, there is a range of cartridges suited for bear that anyone can learn to handle, with .357 being acceptable with the right load. And you really think penetration isn't considered? You think that mid/large caliber means a huge trade off is made for penetration?
Most will go down in one shot of .308
But it needs to actually hit vital organs, bears are mostly fat and fur so unless you're dead on you're not hitting where you need to. Hallow points and soft points usually expand and stop in their fat, making them very angry and not much else.
People bowhunt bears all the time, a gun works better, it's just about shot placement and not using hallow points
youtube.com
Very, people bow hunt bears.
Their chest is mostly fat and fur, glancing them does nothing but piss them off
Because they missed the vital organs in the chest. Simply aiming for the chest isn't enough.
>6 feet from you
If you failed to notice a fucking bear before it got 6 feet from you, then you're already dead. Also, that it isn't an ideal range situation is why I'm saying the potential for fast followup shots is important.
>Also noone is saying use only use the biggest gun, there is a range of cartridges suited for bear that anyone can learn to handle, with .357 being acceptable with the right load.
Except if you've ever tried to research guns for bear defense, people insisting that .44 magnum is the absolute minimum and that you should go higher are the norm. People who talk about using smaller calibers such as .357 magnum or 10mm are a minority. That you posted Buffalo Bore is ammusing, since IIRC the owner of that company insists on carrying a revolver in .500 Linebaugh for bears and considers .44 magnum and overpressure .45 Colt to only be good if you need a lighter gun.
>You think that mid/large caliber means a huge trade off is made for penetration?
No, I'm saying that after you make it past the vital organs, most of that extra energy you get from that larger caliber is just going to be wasted, since it's just being put into making the bullet penetrate even further into non vital areas.
Nigger means black human. Think about that.
That is always the most awkward day in latin class
There isn't a mini map IRL that warns you of enemies, besides brush can get really thick and not every bear sounds like a T. rex when they move, if they even happen to be moving if you near them. You also you can't just shoot a bear that happens to be in your path unless you're actually hunting it. Good luck convincing and official why you needed to mag dump a bear because it was in your way and it coud've attacked, there needs to be an immediate threat like charging at you and they charge fast. Also 10mm and .357 arent't "small calibers", they're up there in terms of hand gun rounds and .30/.40 isn't considered small in terms of actual caliber size. Also the damage a hard cast .30+ sized round can do is far better than something small going clean through. What would you reccomend as a safe "minimum" for bears, you haven't brought up something retarded like an ar pistol or 9mm with some shitty anecdote about people killing bears with airsoft so we might not entirely disagree that as I admit .44+ isn't the only possible route.
I’ve seen grizzly bears take 7 rounds of 10mm to the face, and kept on charging as if they were 22s. Until you have a face to face encounter with one of these apex predators you know not of what you speak of.
Salve, niger!
Quid agis?
That's interesting, would have thought the lungs and heart would be closer.
Also most slaves in the US came from Nigeria or the niger river basin. So "nigger" is the same as calling someone a Manchurian or nilote. (IE not offensive)
Can a person sometimes survive small caliber wounds for a while without going down? Do you think a bear could as well? Do you think a wounded angry bear might be more dangerous than a wounded angry human if they manage to stay up for a while?
yeah but they fucking fast.
If they're charging you it's doubtful you'll get the chance for more than 1 or 2 good shots at the close distances the forests present. Bears are big enough that they can soak up 2 shots and still rip you up.
>There isn't a mini map IRL that warns you of enemies, besides brush can get really thick and not every bear sounds like a T. rex when they move, if they even happen to be moving if you near them.
That doesn't change how you're already dead if you didn't notice a bear that's 6 feet away before it attacks you. Reminder of the 21 foot rule that applies to humans that can't run as fast as a bear.
>You also you can't just shoot a bear that happens to be in your path unless you're actually hunting it
Because seeing a bear that doesn't care about you and having a bear on top of you before you can even draw are the only two situations where you may ever encounter a bear.
>Also 10mm and .357 arent't "small calibers"
I said smaller you double nigger, and they are smaller when compared to the normal calibers people insist on using for bears.
>Also the damage a hard cast .30+ sized round can do is far better than something small going clean through.
Are you too stupid to understand my post?
>What would you reccomend as a safe "minimum" for bears
I don't have one, the whole reason I even involve myself in these discussion is that I'm trying to sift through all the bullshit around what it takes to stop a bear. That people like the owner of Buffalo Bore insisting you should only consider .44 magnum or overpressure .45 Colt if you need a lighter gun as if they're comparable to a .380 pocket pistol compromise option vs a human are quite common if you try to research this topic makes it seem ridiculous, and the entirety of discussion around what it takes to stop a bear seems similar to the concealed carry caliber war discussion except without the scientific analysis that you can find when it comes to calibers for concealed carry.
>Good luck convincing and official why you needed to mag dump a bear
How the fuck is anyone going to know? "Hey, 911, I just murdered a fucking bear for no reason, you better come out to these coordinates in the middle of fucking nowhere so you can arrest me. Yes I'll wait."
Let me simplify it for you, anyone one who recommends 20mm anti tank for defense and claims it's the only thing usable is a retard, but saying "lol just shoot it a bunch of times" or bringing up retard anecdotes like "my cousin killed a bear with .22 short once" like some do is the other extreme of stupid. Bears are incredibly big and can take alot, a quarter inch can me mean life or death. Perfect shots arent always possible, large calibers with power behind them are more effective than something small with penetrative abilities but will just go through without hitting much. Even if it doesn't incapacitate the bear by killing it there is a gearter chance of it being stopped by the tissue and bone destoyed by something powerful which could allow for a second shot as apposed to 2 shots going in deep but not hitting much, even if it does hit heart there is a chance the bear could still go for a few seconds which is enough to fuck you up, something larger will tear the heart a bit more while hitting incredibly hard hard. Stopping power isn't a comeplete boomer meme. You act like I or anyone recommending something large means size is the only thing that matters, I'm saying size is a valuable and relying only on being a top shot isn't much better than saying hit it with something big, Something with both speed, penetration and size that you can realisticly use is the best choice.Use a what you can handle ultimately but use something suited for what you're hunting/defending against, if the only thing you can handle is a .22 for self defense, maybe practice with something more suitable like 9mm instead of going off stories of people using it as justifaction for it, the same with bears. Stop acting like everyone is saying .500 s&w is the onlything people recommend for it. If it isn't clear whats absolute best for bears it should be clear someonce once using .17 HMR to kill a polar bear isn't evidence you should use anything.
>anyone one who recommends 20mm anti tank for defense and claims it's the only thing usable is a retard
Except in this case there's no real scientific data like you can find about ammunition for self defense against people or large wealth of practical knowledge like you can find about what's needed to reliably take a deer considering how many are shot every year, which makes it hard to quantify exactly what strays into "20mm anti tank" territory other than the obvious .500 S&W magnum.
>but saying "lol just shoot it a bunch of times" or bringing up retard anecdotes like "my cousin killed a bear with .22 short once" like some do is the other extreme of stupid.
Those are obvious.
>You act like I or anyone recommending something large means size is the only thing that matters
No, I'm saying that I have a hard time believing people who insist that .44 magnum is the bare minimum while not really hearing much for failures to stop bears when using something smaller.
>Stop acting like everyone is saying .500 s&w is the onlything people recommend for it
I'm not saying that. People who say you need .500 S&W magnum aren't that common, and are far enough off from the norm that I don't think they actually go to areas where they would need to worry about carrying a gun for bear defense.
Just wait till you get to NG+
Dude Borderlands 1&2 are some of my favorite video games but only on NG+. Why the fuck is there no option to start NG+ at level 20 or just have the mobs scale constantly. Mother fucker. Looks like its another round of new vegas again.
How the fuck is a 12 gauge slug not potent enough???
(You)
4570 is the bear minimum guys
Just use whatever the hell you want so long as you're at least using a full size service pistol:
ammoland.com
>At the same time, there are regular stories of people getting away with using pistol calibers such as 10mm or even 9mm
Shoot more bullets. Like, start firing and keep firing.
And here we go.
If if don't have time to empty your mag, you barely have time for proper technique. Best technique is with weapons you can fire potentially with one hand, and get repeated shots off with. Enjoy trying to get those with a fucking bear on you with a fucking revolver.
>Delco
Trash.
Bears can run 30mph. Factor in the OH FUCK A BEAR IS CHARGING ME reaction, having a larger mag and less recoil seems ideal.
>muh bear charges at 500mps^2
they are slow and fat
thats a fucking understatement if I ever heard one. they were scumbags of the lowest cesspit.
It's an old joke, but I'm an old user.
>How the fuck is a 12 gauge slug not potent enough???
I think he meant more potent than the .30-30, but he could be 'tarded.
Almost any .30-30 load will have more energy at 100 yards than the +P+ Buffalo Bore .44 Magnum load does at the muzzle. In most cases, better sectional density as well. Better energy and sectional density = better penetration. Anybody who thinks .44 mag is sufficient and .30-30 isn't needs to rethink that idea.
The internet has gone insane when it comes to caliber discussion. Even you've been infected with it by what you say about .380 vs human, as if that's not enough. What pisses me off about it is you retards are the demand in a market and are affecting ammo prices.
>nigger
>human
No