Thoughts on B&T and the APC9? I'm selling my MPX tomorrow, been debating getting the APC9...

Well this is out now and isn't 2 grand.

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Speaking of PCCs, I saw a stribog at my lgs, are they shit or something? was really cheap compared to the others

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I own 3 B&Ts. APC9. APC223, USW, and also an SG751. I’m not some retarded poorfag whose only experience with swiss guns is when he rationalizes his poverty.
APC has a dual buffer system at the buttplate with a smaller bolt. GHM has the buffer on a much larger bolt. APC is a real weapon system marketed to police and military, the H in GHM stands for Hobby.
Do you understand now? They’re very different products, albeit produced under the same level of workmanship

PTR9 are not always in spec. Also, enjoy that 12 lb trigger. Just buy swiss. If you really want an MP5 clone, Dakota Tactical, TPM outfitters, or commission one yourself, hopefully with a b&t barrel

Never tried the APC9 but i can give a wholehearted recommendation for the Zenith MP5. Around 1.5k rounds through mine without a hiccup. Sights are dead on and the removable rail is works great too. Also i think the GHM9 looks nicer than the APC9, especially with a retractable tailhook brace on the GHM9.

Apparently, neither is your dignity.

Do you own an APC9 or ptr MP5 clone? if so, I'd love to hear how either shoots
I just heard good things about ptr, so I was assuming their mp5 was good
>12 lb trigger
I was gonna switch it out for the binary, but shit, if they aren't always in spec I think I may just go APC9

I’m Buy the APC.
Then buy the APC223.

I take it the apc 300 meme out isn't worth it then?
>223
the website shows one in 5.56 nato, so I may see if the guy here in NC got that
>t. no B&Tgunz
thank you for the info user, it actually is very helpful

to clarify, i'm no B&Tgunz
am a bit tired, so I might be writing like shit

Never shot the APC300.
APC556 is full auto.

Fantastic weapon but I’d wait for the new APC9 Pro/APC9-G. It has a non-reciprocating charging handle that also folds, accepts standard AR grips, has a last round bolt hold-open, and uses Glock magazines

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FUCK GLOCK MAGS

>hating on some of cheapest and most prolific handgun mags on the market

Why?

Why would you buy any of those when the grand power stribog exists?

>Thoughts on B&T and the APC9?

You may not believe it but for what it's worth, I can tell you from first hand exp. that a batch of select fire ones bought by an european police agency was sent back because the bolts started to crumble away.

>cheapest and most prolific

you forgot the best. I told the story about me finding a loaded mag that had fallen behind the workbench some time in 2003 in 2017 before here. The mag sat there for 14 years, loaded, and when I cleaned it it still fed like a brand new one.

Very interesting. First I've heard of this.

What’s better: collapsible stock or side folding?

>hurr durr you are poor cuz reasons
>don't buy one cuz I wanna be the only special snow flake

Are B&T fags the new HK fags?

Considering how many HKs are out there compared to B&T, I'd say not.

>good things about ptr
They're a one trick pony. In a few years they will probably have their mp5's sorted out but I would wait.

>I wonder why people would ever consider one.

I can't speak for everyone, but I find them much better looking than their competitors. Also, have you handled one? The quality of the fabrication is clearly superior to, say, the Scorpion.

When is apc9-g coming out? Anyone know can not find online even contacted B&T but no response

I own and MPX and sometimes I wish I bought a scoripion. I feel I just could have gotten the samething for less money but I do like MPX a lot so it stays.

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>APC556 is full auto.
there is one said to be semi auto on their website, but I think it is for law enforcement only
J U S T
bt-ag.ch/shop/eng/bt-apc556apc223/bt-semiautomatic-rifle-apc556-cal-556-x-45-mm

>I own and MPX and sometimes I wish I bought a scoripion

I don’t know this feel

The LoP is going to be longer on the GHM9 because of the bolt design. Mine really doesn't like some 9mm Luger hp, though it eats ant +P just fine. Remember, if you get the GHM9 buy a Gen II!

The hydraulic buffer is on the bolt with the GHM9.

Both GHM9 and APC have tons of brace options, including B&T's MP5 style stock.

The controls are identical.

The irons on the APC suck dick, on the GHM9 they're okay.

don't they have issue feeding certain ammo types?

I too know this feel. Especially because the last time I had it out to the range it was failing to feed and failing to extract like a mofo. My buddy's scorpion has never given him trouble. I should have listened to him before SBRing the MPX.

The APC? No. European police don't use hollowpoints, so they were never designed to fire them but they do just fine.

The Gen I GHM9s have a problem, but B&T will upgrade yours to a Gen II free of charge (requires being sent to B&T in Florida) and the Gen II generally handle HP ammo well.

Psa mp5 Clone comes out early September. Ptr has good quality stuff too. I had a b&t apc9. Good o Swiss quality. But traded it for a scar17

>mag sits on the floor for 14 years and still works
I M P L E S S I V E

My thoughts on them is they're absolute dogshit compared to the TMP.
Thats what the company should be making, not these pieces of shit.
Why the fuck are people settling for less... the mastery has already been achieved, long ago.

> muh price
They shouldn't charge so much for it then.
Get the damn CNC machines running.
Run these through a factory instead of benchwork. Geez.

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GHM9 beats the APC9 in terms of compactness. If a non reciprocating charging handle is important to you, APC's will soon have that functionality but the GHM will not.

how does the tp9 shoot? would you recommend a brace for it?

im just saying in general I have no idea why the APC9 or GHM9 were ever made when they already had that one. Whats the point of things like this or the scorpion.

First of all Steyr is the original designer/creator of the TP9, which is a machine pistol. The GHM/APC line of firearms are submachine guns.

mine has never failed to feed at all. Except maybe once during the break in period.

the apc is a submachinegun. (I hear) it is more accurate than the TP9, and it has different internals, has some hydraulic buffer or something, aka all the fancy bells and whistles.
The MP9/TMP9 by steyer was bought by B&T. They have released 2 so far - tp9 and tp9n (I think?), one with the rail, one without
GHM9 is meant for hobby (that's what the "H" means)

>steyer
I'm not even on mobile. Steyer? fucking Steyer?
what the hell was I thinking?

Now there's a good name for a pseudo company in a video game to avoid copyright issues.
> either that or Stiegel

>GHM9 is meant for hobby (that's what the "H" means)
Haha, why does B&T always attract clueless know-it-alls

>the H means Hobby

GHM stands for grasshopper mouse, and they named it that because that animal is known for killing scorpions. it has nothing to do with hobby guns vs professional duty weapons.

>Whats the point of things like this or the scorpion.
Being a mass produced and affordable MP5 replacement for euro countries aging fleets, It isn't quite as good but it's much cheaper than MP5s, UMPs, or TMPs.

I didn't know it was possible for a gun to be so ugly

So why didnt H&K make a cheaper MP5 replacement with updated modern furniture?

I guess CZ can do whatever it wants but it absolutely trashed the reputation of its scorpions by coming out with that evo shit. It has nothing to do with the VZ machine pistols. It doesnt take any MP5 magazines either and the mags they made for it are bulky as fuck (an MP5 mag looks like a stick comparatively, Evo mags almost look like they'd go in an AR).

The only thing I give a shit about CZ for anymore is their Bren rifles. Nothing bad can be said about any of the 805s, 806s, or 807s. I hate that they got rid of the 2 round burst but whatever. The Brens are golden.

Id rather pretend the Evo never happened. If its a scorpion it needs to be like the cold war models.

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Apparently this is like a Hipoint sorta SBR thing.
Except its reliable.
And its in 10mm and .45 too.

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well shit, I guess I fell for fuddlore.
The LGS told me this when showing me it, but I mostly did research into the apc9.
Isn't there an engraving of one eating a scorpion in somewhere in the gun or is that also a myth I fell for?
Still is a cool looking gun
>attract clueless know-it-alls
it's the nature of firearms and Jow Forums
everyone just shares what they know, or think they know
at least here we get called morons if we are wrong

>well shit, I guess I fell for fuddlore.
youre thinking of the kh9, which stands for "karl's hobby".

they're made in switzerland, the land of the $16 whopper

meant to reply to

I've heard so many fucking fudds and gun store employs talk about spring set. It drives me up the wall but people WILL SWEAR BY IT. Loading and unloading tension on springs wears them out. Static tension does not. End of fucking story.

you're a retard.
You hate the trigger because it's a full auto trigger converted to semi.
You bought the TP9 because you can't afford the APCs.
You think you're hot shit owning a fucking TP9 when you're really just poorfag tier.
GTFO.

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are you fucking retarded?

>So why didnt H&K make a cheaper MP5 replacement with updated modern furniture?

They did, nobody bought it.

I agree about the Scorpion though, I would love it of they made a new version with a "brace" on it.

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You know what the H in KH9 stood for? HOBBY. KARL HOBBY 9.

>Nothing bad can be said about any of the 805s
no, you're just fucking dumb.

no timestamp
lmao

nice
>cold war models
The 380 acp one I kinda want to get, but the one I want is out of stock

When is the APC9-G coming out? Anyone?

No money
Lol

These things are just the fucking coolest. I've never actually shot one so I'm aware my opinion is worthless, but that AR-style charging handle and grip magazine just look like pure sex.

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My friend bought one and we took his BT and my Sig MPX to the range. The BT is made like a swiss watch. The bolt close sounds like a BMW door closing...thunk. We shot super cheap ass aluminum American Eagle 9mm. We had so many FF that we had to buy range ammo at $100 a box. Everything about the BT is well built and sexy. But, it did not shoot the garbage rounds that I like to shoot at the range.

I sold mine today. Moving to a weapons platform that is actually reliable- Like the MP5 platform or the APC. Had a shitload of hiccups with mine in the 500 rounds of owning it.

I have an apc-9 it's a tank. Handles jhp and flat points. It is heavy but it's built well. Controls are nice too

That's kind of like the story Chevy told the media when they asked what a Camaro was, and then Chevy responded it was a small, vicious animal that eats Mustangs.

Handled a GHM9 today. Can confirm.

that pic brought back memories, good ones

I don't think HiPoint carbines are unreliable though. They're just ugly and single stack.

APC9 Pro soon

Picking one up as soon as it’s released

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When is soon, you know? this year? Early next year? Late next year?

Yes but the GHM9 isn't a KH9. Can't you understand it, you dumb motherfucker ?

>Isn't there an engraving of one eating a scorpion in somewhere in the gun or is that also a myth I fell for?

Yep. At the bottom of the upper.

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Not sure but B&T already has it listed on their website along with the APC 308. Probably early next year

Thanks guess I can hold out till then but I swear to god if it’s not out by mid next year I’ll ... I’ll be angry and cry more

Yeah, but GHM isn’t marketed towards LE/M, can’t you understand you dumb shit?

Lol, post your B&Ts.

With the caveat of being well designed, toleranced, and of reasonable quality materials.

For those waiting for APC9-G I just got this response from B&T

>Good afternoon Leon,
>The APC Pro series is expected to be available shortly after Shot Show 2019. The APC Pro will come with the OEM B&T lower receiver that fits OEM B&T magazines, the Glock compatible lower receiver will be available separately for purchase to convert your APC Pro to use Glock magazines. As we get closer to 2019 we’ll start to have firmer ETA’s on APC Pro delivery. I recommend following our social media platforms (Facebook/Instagram) and contacting your local dealer if you are interested in purchasing one. Please don’t hesitate to reach out to me should you have any further questions.

Awesome. Any clue how much the Glock lower will be?

>Leon

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More like

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So did you guys keep default optics on apc9 or replace? And if so what do you prefer to original

>selling a gas operated 9mm PCC for a blowback 9mm PCC

Sounds like you're making a mistake.

>Like the MPX
You got no taste, son.

>KH9
Now that's a rare one

>It doesnt take any MP5 magazines either
The cheapest I can find MP5 magazines is $30 clones from 3rd parties. Evo mags can be found for $15. Yeah CZ is pretty dumb for offering factory mags for 50% the price of knockoff MP5 mags, how horrible...

>Evo mags almost look like they'd go in an AR
No. pic related. Top is old style CZ mag, middle is new 3rd gen CZ mag (black with clear windows), bottom is an AR Pmag. You are just retarded. My Scorpion EVO has run flawlessly for several thousand rounds. With the CZ custom shop trigger upgrade the single biggest flaw of the EVO (the garbage factory trigger) has been totally transformed. Trigger pull has been reduced from like 10lbs to about 4 and pull length is like 1/4 as long as well. An EVO with a trigger upgrade is the shit.

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MPX looks good on paper but I hear so many stories of people having issues with reliability. It is a gun that should be awesome but seems to miss the mark for whatever reason.