So my parents' home got broken into while they were out and my dad wants to buy a gun in case it happens again while they're home. When I presented that an AR pistol is the absolute best home-defense gun (shotgun fags get out), he said that its too scary of a gun and that he's gonna get put on a watchlist for even looking up pics of it online.
How do I get him to stop being such a massive fucking faggot about an inanimate object and at least go and rent one at a range?
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>he said that its too scary of a gun and that he's gonna get put on a watchlist for even looking up pics of it online.
Lost cause there buckaroo.
just let him get whatever he feels comfortable with.
That would be a pistol, but I took him shooting for Father's day once and he sucked pretty bad with my 19. Hence, something with a stock would be ideal, but I also don't trust him to not short stroke a pump under stress.
Maybe a CZ Scorpion? Functionally similar to an AR, but looks a lot different so it may not trigger the same jerk response that AR = Baby Killer gun. Having 30 9mm +P hollow points is more than enough power to deal with home intruders.
>he's gonna get put on a watchlist for even looking up pics of it online.
But he's right though.
Dad?
Son?
A simple pump shotgun works great for basic home defense and has done so innumerable times over more than a century. Not everyone needs the newest high speed low drag tacticool fad so they can operate operationally. Buy him a Maverick 88 and a box of #4 buck and call it a day.
Yo pops, if you're worried about being put on watchlists, you're gonna want to get the fuck off of Jow Forums.
Get him a mini-14 then
>Maverick 88
If I'm buying him a shotgun, it's probably gonna be an M4. I'm not a fucking poorfag.
>he said that its too scary of a gun and that he's gonna get put on a watchlist for even looking up pics of it online
Your father is a gay let him get robbed.
>an AR pistol is the absolute best home-defense gun
you're an idiot, I'm glad your dad isn't taking your advice.
This, tough love OP
>an AR pistol is the absolute best home-defense gun
>he's gonna get put on a watchlist for even looking up pics of it online.
God it's a family of morons.
Mom?
Imagine having parents this low IQ. Holy shit, does your father do unskilled labor his entire life, or work at Buzzfeed?
Your dad might be too much of a pussy to pull the trigger if that time comes. I'd be more invested in getting him to a range.
Yeah until you actually have to pop Jamal with it then it goes into the locker forever. If you're getting an HD shotgun keep it cheap so you wont miss it if the cops lock it away.
If he worked at buzzfeed he would have said no to any gun and shreeked in autism at the thought
Fluffy?
Set a date and a time and take him out shooting and let him shoot yours. You DO have one don't you?
Woofers?
Just let them die they’re already dead hopefully they get you set gibs from their estate before some dindu comes a rapin’
Let him buy his 1911.
If you dad thinks an AR is scary and get put on watchlists for looking at then while you also believe he will short stroke a pump I promise you he will try to pump his semiauto shotgun in a moment of panic and wonder why it doesnt work.
If he's that much of a retard get him an over/under shotgun and make sure he keeps the thing loaded. Safety forward, two shots with the same trigger pull.
WTF IS GOING ON WITH HIS NIPPLES
I meant same trigger. It doesn't require that you cock anything you just press the trigger once then again to fire. 12 gauge is probably the most effective home defense round you can buy.
Get him an M1 Carbine. Even easier to use than an Ar15 and 0 chance of people saying it looks scary.
>His
I have bad news for you.
Bimbo baby sitter?
>pistol AR
>good home defense gun
>tfw convinced parents to buy themselves handguns and now they're looking at AR15s and year long memberships at local ranges
>mom starts talking about being prepared for civil unrest
>setting up a concealed carry class already
feels real good to have woke as fuck parents
>implying
A pistol AR is pretty much the supreme home defense weapon. Small length for maneuverability, low cost and no ATF tax, high power, high round count, but without the overpenetration and spread of MUH SHOTGUN. You cannot name a better home defense weapon.
"Dad I need you to come into this conversation with an open mind and hear me out, ok?
You're house was broken into, it has been proven not to a safe place. You are lucky that you and mom werent there that night, if you had been god knows what could have happened. You got lucky, you were unarmed and unprepared.
I need to to think about why you are buying a gun, its not for hunting, its not for clay shooting, and its not for target practice. You are buying a gun for combat.
There is a reason the US military uses the ar style rifles, they just work. You want the absolute best, most reliable gun that you can use to defend yourself and mom. I love you both and I dont want you to be unsafe. I never want to get a call from the sheriff some day that the worst happened because you bought a subpar outdated gun that got you and mom killed when you could have had the latest and greatest.
Please let me take you out to the range and we can rent an AR, there is absolutely nothing illegal about it or immoral. After that we can go get a bite to eat and a beer and talk it over. After that if you still absolutely hate them and want no part of them I will help you pick out a good home defense shotgun or pistol so you will at least have a fighting chance. PLease do this for me?"
come at your dad like a rational adult you fucking sperg
>pump his semi auto
You have never touched a gun in your life, have you?
>a short semi automatic in nearly any caliber
>bad
what kind of retard are you?
Unless you're using fmj, even then #4 shot is fine for not shredding through sheetrock.
Is the tailhook mod 3 available yet? FUCK.
Without a suppressor, aren't pistol ARs absolutely terrible for home defense? I imagine it would fireball like crazy, blinding the shooter while also being so loud, you will have permanent severe hearing damage after just a single shot indoors without hearing protection.
>Unless you're using fmj, even then #4 shot is fine for not shredding through sheetrock.
that's where you're wrong: youtube.com
literally xm193 is a better choice, not only for penetration concerns but because it's precise whereas a load of shot isn't
Maybe .223, but 300blackout would be better.
>high velocity pencil vs low velocity heavy ball
Imagine my surprise when the pencil is deflected easily. Now what does this have to do with PCCs and shotguns?
>AR pistol best home-defense gun
Lol?
>best, most reliable gun
>AR
pick only one, fagnuts
>PCCs
PCCs are the second worst choice for home defense next to shotguns
>The most widely used semi auto rifle in america is unreliable, as well as it's military counterparts
How stupid are you?
>pick only one, fagnuts
I'm sorry you bubba'd your build and made it unreliable
That's why you don't use fmj. Even heavier round ball moving at faster speeds than pellets shreds sheetrock like nobodys business.
>PCCs are the second worst choice for home defense next to shotguns
LOL seriously how does it feel to be this wrong about everything?
>Small length for maneuverability,
A pistol is shorter and more maneuverable
>low cost
You can get a decent shotgun for a lot less
>and no ATF tax,
None on a pistol or shotgun either.
>high power
Not as high as 12 gauge, or even 20 gauge.
>high round count
"Spray and pray" is for African child soldiers, not the white man. Besides, anyone should be able to slap a new mag in a Glock fast, or even top off from a shotgun side saddle fast.
>but without the overpenetration
Not really an issue with the right shotgun load.
>or spread of MUH SHOTGUN
You say that like it's a bad thing.
>You cannot name a better home defense weapon.
A pistol or a shotgun.
>hurr he doesn't rack his pump to actuate the qction var cycling the firearm
Prove me wrong that his tard dad wouldn't try to move the grip on his M4 shotgun in stress if he cant even use a pump under stress.
SBR's and AR pistols are the future of urban combat. There is no reason to carry a 16" M4/AR15 when your target is within 200 yards. An AR pistol is great for home defense.
When you get to that short of gas system you get reliability problems from how fucking fast the bolt unlocks.
5.56 is horrible in a short barrel, the only reason it exists is because it's a milstd and cheap and plentiful, not because it's good.
The kind whose hearing returns after a few days instead of the permanently deaf.
>A pistol is shorter and more maneuverable
That's more or less true, but how much shorter and more maneuverable do you need for a home defense gun? It's not a carry piece, and you're trading off pistol calibers for intermediate rifle calibers which is a whole lot of difference in terms of terminal effects.
>You can get a decent shotgun for a lot less
Shotguns are ass though.
>None on a pistol or shotgun either.
Yeah but they aren't as good at shooting.
>Not as high as 12 gauge, or even 20 gauge.
Technically correct because "power" was a poor word choice on my part, but high weight and low velocity is not really what you want for home defense.
>"Spray and pray" is for African child soldiers, not the white man.
Everyone point and laugh at the Jow Forumstard who makes up quotes.
>reload a shotgun as fast as an AR mag change
This isn't even worth my time.
>Not really an issue with the right shotgun load.
See video above. It literally is with any normal shotgun load. And yes, by definition "overpenetration" is a bad thing. You're sending a lot of energy downrange, but if it isn't making it into the target, it's wasted energy that is still fucking up your split time.
>A pistol or a shotgun.
A pistol would be a decent second option. A shotgun is a terrible choice for home defense.
>LOL seriously how does it feel to be this wrong about everything?
PCCs are the .40S&W of guns. All the size and maneuverability issues that come with a rifle, but with the ballistic performance of a pistol round. It's an inexplicably bad choice for home defense.
>>You can get a decent shotgun for a lot less
>Shotguns are ass though.
>>None on a pistol or shotgun either.
>Yeah but they aren't as good at shooting.
Who could argue against well-reasoned, data-backed arguments like these?
Anyhow, you have to be 18 to post here. Please go back to cawadoody.
>shotguns are terrible for home defense
Is this the meme of the month now?
A 16" AR will penetrate armor far better which is a big consideration for the military. I don't think the military chooses what weapons to what environment either, they expect their weapons to perform well "enough" in all settings.
>but with the ballistic performance of a pistol round. It's an inexplicably bad choice for home defense.
What kind of "ballistic performance" do you think you need at realistic home defense ranges? Do you have any 200-yard-long hallways in your house?
You're a fucking idiot.
didnt op say he was going to make it a pistol caliber? Imo the best hd weapon (especially in an apartment like mine) is a slick ar9 "pistol" with a red dot and a flashlight
look at this absolute poorfag that doesn't have 200 yard hallways
go back to your shack built on a car trailer that you tell everyone is a "tiny house"
Camp carbine, just feed the fudd, its perfect and effective.
>is a slick ar9 "pistol" with a red dot and a flashlight
Literally fucking why? Why choose a janky blowback-operated hack of the AR platform instead of just buying a Glock 19 and calling it a day?
>Who could argue against well-reasoned, data-backed arguments like these?
I already posted a 30 minute video full of data for you that exhibits in detail why shotguns aren't a good choice for home defense compared with an AR.
>Is this the meme of the month now?
No it's just true. Don't get your home defense advice from Joe Fucking Biden.
>What kind of "ballistic performance" do you think you need at realistic home defense ranges?
Do you not understand that terminal ballistics are a part of ballistics, or do you not understand the vast, vast difference in terminal performance between a pistol caliber and 5.56?
PCCs do not have "rifle" maneuverability. Most are smaller than short barreled ar15s. It is also a huge advantage to have a longarm over a handgun. Not to mention 9mm, .40, and .45 are more than potent enough to kill the crap out of someone from a PCC.
folding stock Mini-14.
>shotguns not as optimal as an ar
>I have inferred that shotguns are now worse than using a wet sock for HD
My my, winter break already?
giving a scaredy no guns a mini-14 for home defense isn't great. the rock in mag on the mini is a bit of a dick unless you practice lots, or at least thats how i found it. Not shitting on rock in systems btw.
>he thinks the most common rifle in America is more reliable than the most common rifle in the world
>mp5 is .40sw of guns
Oh, I see some retard was going on about PCCs and I figured it was OP. A short rifle is a good weapon, 5.56 is not its caliber.
Considering you can't shoulder a g19....
because an ar9 with a brace is a hell of a lot more controllable than a pistol, plus magazine capacity. Bitch if you dont buy some psa garbage they are perfectly fine.
why 9? Because i dont want to send 556 zipping though their torso into my neighbors place you tard.
People dont actually shoot guns anymore. They just look at stats and specifcations. Oh this guns 46 inches long and only holds 5 rounds what garbage. This guns thats 24 inches long and holds 30 is much better. They look at paper targets someone else shot and think all holes are equal.
They never go to the range and learn holy fuck thats really fucking loud. Or shoot a pumpkin with buckshot and watch it vanish.
>I already posted a 30 minute video full of data for you that exhibits in detail why shotguns aren't a good choice for home defense compared with an AR.
Okay except that it's tacticool bullshit. Here's some truth from someone who actually knows what they're doing: youtube.com
inb4 "but muh Navy Seal said so!" - literally the cringiest of the memey tacticool bullshit out there
>or do you not understand the vast, vast difference in terminal performance between a pistol caliber and 5.56?
Okay except that doesn't actually matter at realistic home defense distances.
>because an ar9 with a brace is a hell of a lot more controllable than a pistol,
LOLWTF? Noguns detected. "Ooh, a Glock 19 is just too hard for me to control!" My sides are in fucking orbit!
>PCCs do not have "rifle" maneuverability. Most are smaller than short barreled ar15s.
Make it more obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about.
> It is also a huge advantage to have a longarm over a handgun.
For sure, but if you're going to have a long arm, why choose a pistol caliber over an intermediate caliber?
>Not to mention 9mm, .40, and .45 are more than potent enough to kill the crap out of someone from a PCC.
.22lr is lethal, that's not the issue, but the difference in terminal performance of any of those versus 5.56 is enormous
Settle down sperg he is right. Long arms are more controllable than pistols.
You're right about penetration with 223. However 300 BLK only needs a 9" barrel length for max velocity. SOCOM put out a request last year for companies to make a good AR15 style SBR in 300BLK. I think that will eventually trickle down to regular military units within the next 20 years and become the standard.
>Okay except that it's tacticool bullshit
It's literally two tier one operators taking the time to build mock up typical types of interior and exterior walls then shooting several weapons through them to show you what happens. How is that NOT useful knowledge for someone looking to select a weapon for home defense?
>Okay except that doesn't actually matter at realistic home defense distances
Please explain why you think that terminal ballistics doesn't matter at close ranges.
>pistol AR
>home defense
>novice user
Lol OP didnt fall far from the tree.
What PCCs are notably larger than a short barreled ar15? To be clear by short barreled ar15, i'm referring to ar15s with 9"-12.5" barrels because anything shorter is quite dumb imo.
5.56 from an SBR is a whole different beast than from a rifle. Velocity on 5.56 from a 10.5" goes from load as fuck 5.7 to almost as good as a rifle depending upon the load. As we know, 5.7 is a pretty lousy performer.
He's a doctor, hence he doesn't really have a lot of free time to train and I think he might be squeamish about taking lives.
We've gone to a range before and he seemed to enjoy shooting my Glock, but he wasn't very good or taking it too seriously.
>two tier one operators
Just when I thought you couldn't possibly get any more cringey, you said this. We're literally hitting cringe levels we never thought possible.
>Please explain why you think that terminal ballistics doesn't matter at close ranges
Bullet hits bad guy. Bad guy falls over and stops being a threat. At five or ten yards, that will happen with 9mm as surely as it will with 5.56, so the difference is meaningless.
My dad put me through college. He might be a pussy, but I feel obligated to at the least try and get him to use the best available tools to protect my mom and little brother.
>What PCCs are notably larger than a short barreled ar15?
There is no way to definitively answer that because saying "short barreled ar15" doesn't tell me how long the barrel is, except that it's under 16". It could be 8", it could be fucking 2" like that picture I posted.
A Scorpion EVO carbine has a 16" barrel and the overall length is 24.5" with the stock folded, and over 35" with it deployed. An AR-15 with an 8" barrel would be something like 23" with the receiver extension and brace IN PLACE.
I could definitely see special forces making a massive shift to .300 blackout sbrs, but the regular military? I don't see .300 blackout being able to fill enough rolls for that. 5.56 is an amazing general purpose cartridge from 14.5"-20" barrels which regular soldiers carry without issue.
Did you even read?
You know they make Scorpions as "pistols".
I would have him get either a 300blk or even a 5.56 with subsonics in both. The pistol I would buy him would have an adjustable gas block either way.
>Velocity on 5.56 from a 10.5" goes from load as fuck 5.7
literally wut
>We're literally hitting cringe levels
Yeah just ignore the point of what I said and seize on an accurate term that you consider "cringey", redditor.
>Bullet hits bad guy. Bad guy falls over and stops being a threat.
Oh, OK, well here's a Red Ryder BB gun then. Don't worry about terminal performance, you're only going to be using it at close ranges, it'll be fine.
Thats not the best, you dolt. Go buy a fucking shotgun for like 150 dollars. This isn't a game of COD.
Then it's not a carbine...