So I'm coming over from a mix of /out/ and CSG on Jow Forums. One thing I'm noticing is that titanium has gotten cheap. Really cheap. Products made of titanium are within 25% of versions of the same products made from steel. $5 knives come with titanium coating.
Are there military implications for China's ability to seemingly pump out an endless supply of reasonably priced titanium?
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Isn't it really difficult to machine?
Not if it's coated.
The Chinese and Indians are notorious for falsifying material test reports (MTRs). It's a culture of lying ingrained at the foundry level. Chances are what you're seeing on the consumer market is not up to the quality of materials from the US or western Europe.
>So I'm coming over from a mix of /out/ and CSG on Jow Forums
Why is that important
>Products made of titanium are within 25% of versions of the same products made from steel.
Titanium was expensive in America due to the cold war. The reason is TLDR. Otherwise titanium is not all that much more expensive than steel on a large scale, about 20-40% more.
AvE did a vid on it.
Unlikely for the US. US need in titanium is hamstrung by lack of good sources.
It's where I observed it. Cheap titanium camping cookware and a growing prevalence in cheap chinese mass-produced products.
titanium nitride=/=titanium coating.
some of the hardest alloys of titanium are only in the 45-48 HRC range which makes them barely hard enough for typical use knives.
not really difficult, but it's not easy AF like aluminum is.
So are you saying that the titanium cookware they're selling isn't actually titanium but is likely titanium-coated aluminum?
Heat is your biggest concern there, titanium doesn't like to conduct heat that well too so the chips like to gall and weld to the edge of your tool. So if it's not production stuff you're fine taking your time, like making your own wedding ring or something.
This is the stuff I'm talking about. This is mass-produced. The full set only costs like $30 right now bought direct from China.
That's exactly what it is user. Don't trust the Chinese.
put it to a grinder and see what color the sparks are
Won't work with coatings. We'll it will, but ya gotta get though it.
yes goy just as good as real stuff
Titanium nitride is a surface treatment (not coating/plating), that increases the surface hardness to ~68 HRC where the treatment remains undisturbed. side effects of metallic nitride treatments (boron, aluminum, titanium, chrome ect.) can include wear resistant, friction reduction, heat resistance and corrosion resistance.
Isn't the question whether the stuff is solid Ti or just a coating on aluminum?
to add: as cookware im sure its fine. I was under the impression you were buying/making tools out of titanium.
I don't know if I trust Chinese anything for cooking. Be it food or what it goes in.
I was just noticing that it seemed a lot more prevalent than I remember a few years ago and was curious if their increased production and ability to handle the material would have any potential impact militarily in regards to what they can make or build. I seem to recall titanium being good for aircraft that travel through the upper atmosphere.
Maybe and no. TLDR:Not all titanium is created equal.
Chinese titanium isn't necessarily *good* titanium. If you only knew about the sort of shenanigans they pull with steel. Poor, inconsistent alloys which don't meet ASTM standards is the norm, and as another user mentioned, they bribe materials testing people to falsify reports. It's basically inconsistent to the point of being structurally questionable.
Add to the fact that Ti is so much more of a finicky material, and you need to question the quality of the materials for all but the very basic uses. It needs to be smelted in specialized oxygen free furnaces, is much more sensitive to alloying. Compared to steel or aluminum it really is much more sensitive to being *done right*.
If you have to build something 10% heavier than would be possible with Ti of known and consistent quality, you basically lost all advantage of dealing with the more expensive material.
Can you get away with shit alloys on things like lightweight campware? Sure. Fighter planes? Not so much.
There's also a chinese supplier on alibaba that sells clf3 and other fun compounds in multi ton quantities so take everything the chinese sell you with a truckload of salt.
>AvE did a vid on it.
Link?
Titanium is the new buzzword. Most of the Chinese "titanium" isnt very pure.
>US need in titanium is hamstrung by lack of good sources
on our soils, sure.
In south America? different story.
sounds like Brazil and Paraguay need some regime change.
For real tho, there isn't a good reason why we aren't able to source from somewhere other than Russia and Kazakhstan. I know that two US companies are looking at massive reserves in South America.
Yes compared to most things
I have a titanium watch but that's it
This one?
>Titanium was expensive in America due to the cold war
we also bought it off the Soviet Union to build the SR-71
Titanium pots. Titanium fucking pots. Why the everloving fuckity fuck would anyone ever get this? Weight? Aluminium is much lighter. Resilience? If you're likely to smash up your aluminium cookware then the solution isn't titanium such, the solution is to put you in a padded cell before you accidentally maim yourself.
Strength of steel at 45% less weight. Corrosion-resistance. No fear of poisoning yourself with aluminum.
Also, , to add one other factor. People that get into hiking are often retarded yuppies with too much money and too little common sense. You can find Youtube videos of people arguing that paying $400 for a pack that degrades into scrap material after 2 hikes is totally worth it.
Working titanium is early 60s technology user. Do you know the meme about North Korea being 50 years behinf the rest of the world? That means they're about to master it as well!
>Strength of steel
As I said, aluminium is strong enough.
>Corrosion-resistance
If there's enough salt in your food to corrode away your aluminium cookpot then your blood pressure's about to crush your brain from inside.
>No fear of poisoning yourself with aluminum.
Once again I'm gonna have to go with "if this is a problem, then you should be locked up for your own safety".
Yeah, that's what it sells by. People who know nothing of materials, nor have any experience camping.
Titanium is difficult to machine and really difficult to weld. Welding titanium is a skill on its own that most welders don’t possess.
>If there's enough salt in your food to corrode away your aluminium cookpot then your blood pressure's about to crush your brain from inside.
This, jesus christ. Just fucking wash your shit. Unless you're regularly eating a sea salt, tomato and vinegar sauce gently seasoned with hydrofucking chloric acid you won't have any trouble with corrosion; and even then properly cleaning your shit will stop you having any issues.
Not really.
Just use tools that aren't total dogshit.
The fear is that aluminum will end up in your food, pass into your body, and slowly sicken you until you come down with a degenerative condition. While there may not be solid evidence it causes alzheimer's, there's still enough evidence that it isn't exactly good to steadily consume aluminum.
To be fair, this fear has been latched on to by companies to sell more expensive shit.
>>muh aluminum and alzheimer's
Do you also belive that scabs cause cuts and that white blood cells cause infections?
It has widespread negative health effects, and the alzheimer's connection, while mocked, is still inconclusive rather than a hard negative. It's a bio-accumulating toxin in the body.
I’ve welded up a few titanium motorcycle exhausts and I though it was rather pleasant to weld. That being said, it was relatively light duty stuff. It’s not like it was x-ray’d or anything
Machine shop owner here.
Most of the time you hear about "titainum" products they are NOT solid titanium, rather it is a coating just a few atoms thick, like Ttitanium Nitride. Such a coating does make certain tools last longer (I use TiN-coated drills, end mills, and reamers in my work), but for most consumer goods it is just done for advertising purposes. Your "titanium" screwdriver is no better than a normal one.
Yes, it's harder to machine than mild steel or aluminum alloys but it's not as bad as some people make it sound. I'd much rather machine Titanium than pure copper, 316 stainless, inconel, etc.
What the other anons posted about alloys from China being untrustworthy are very true. I have been burned by that before: lying on material analysis certifications, as QC problems like inclusions or voids inside bars of raw Ti. I only buy from US mills, yeah the Chinese is cheaper but you lose more money in the end in terms of rejected parts.
>It has widespread negative health effects,
Citation needed. It doesn't pass the bullshit test. Aluminum is one of the most common elements on earth. It's everywhere and in everything. If it were toxic to humans we'd have known it by now.
>>still conclusive
So in other words we've looked at it really hard with modern science and we still can't find a link?
It's fine.
>>There is little evidence that normal exposure to aluminium presents a risk to healthy adult
Sounds like we agree.
>toxicity
>Aluminium
Nigga what... Ti nitride coatings don’t fucking count as titanium. You can get a $5 ring with a real gold coating. And a lot of lighter paints have titanium in them as a white coloring.
Part of what makes titanium in metal alloy form so expensive is The process of converting TiOxide to titanium. And it can be harder to work with than steel or aluminum alloys.
>save money and weight by getting Al instead of Ti
>forget pot on the fire on the first night while /out for a week
>wake up with hole melted in your only pot
>fuggg
Then you're not meant for camping. Walk back home again or let Darwin sort it out.
Acquire tree stump. Burn tree stump. Beat tree stump with rocks to make bowl. Burn tree stump repeatedly. Beat more with rock. Put rocks in fire. Put water in stump. Put hot rocks in stump. Boil water. Cycle rocks. Make food.
It'll be Titanium, sure, but with fucking awful purity
Chinese metals are known for their fuckery, see youtube.com
Unlike steel, Titanium is actually elemental, so as long as it is actually pure Ti there's not much you can fuck up, but I'm 100% sure the Chinese have worked out a way to totally fuck it up
If you want a book sized version of this post, I highly recommend "Poorly made in China", it's basically a Jew being shocked by how sneaky and Jewish the Chinese can be, great audiobook version too, I've listened through it a couple times
>The Chinese and Indians are notorious for falsifying material test reports (MTRs). It's a culture of lying ingrained at the foundry level. Chances are what you're seeing on the consumer market is not up to the quality of materials from the US or western Europe.
This.
It doesn't matter what it says in the documentation, it is what it is and in this case, "it" means some low-quality alloy or in bad cases, trash-quality metal.
>do all of this
>eat 10 hours later
>food taste like dirt
OR
>buy a quality pot made of stainless or Ti
>use it for years if not decades
>have time for the bush crafting / camping projects you want to do
No one with a brain wants pure Ti, good alloys are good, make it more suited for it's intended use.
Agreed. Just like hundreds of "D2" knives with "Titanium" handles you can get straight from China for less than $30... Even if they are D2, probably was heat treated on a sewage fire.
The Amerimutt is notorious for falsifying reports about allegedly falsified material test reports (MTRs). It's a "culture" of lying ingrained at the foundry level.
Chances are what you're reading on anonymous basket weaving forums does not reflect the reality on the consumer market where its mostly Amermutt "steel" that is not up to the quality of materials from East Asia and Europe.
Not to mention Ti conducts heat pretty poorly when compared to aluminium or even steel. Takes shit load more time to heat the food.
The cutters for titanium is pretty damned expensive, too.
Brazil is currently swinging right. I'm actually hopeful for them.
Alzheimer's is Type 3 diabetes. Cut out non-fiber carbohydrates.
A non-point really, on the fire or a stove, the difference is very small, the capacity of water/food and exposed surface area is far more important for how long things will take to heat up than the material is.
could I buy a truckload of salt from them?