Components

The people who talk shit about 3D printing for home manufacturing are people who don't know much about manufacturing methods as a whole.

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You can use it as an intermediary process in a lot of different ways.

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For low stress components, it's totally fine. Even an AR-10 lower has been successfully tested. There's an AR-15 lower than uses an AK-based FCG so that it can be printed. There are bolt-together lowers optimized for easy printing and layer adhesion... The possibilities are endless.

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Well I try to think of it in terms of what part I need, if I 3d print it the process is way slower than a mold. A lot of the processes are not even suppose to be efficient just creating a part that's functional using techniques that are ridiculously bad, so it adds so many hours of work that it's impractical but total possible with commonly available stuff. I really started most of these ideas without the benefit of 3d printing or minimizing the cost or time. More like using a batteries using in series hooked up to a welding stick to use enough energy to melt it. Commonly available things and hand tools primarily. I've kind of been debating between using salvage parts and that sort of thing to create a functional product as one off kind of stuff.

Actually, the whole reason why I talk shit about it is because I have three decades of machine shop experience.

A hobby 3D printer makes toys. Old-fashioned tools take more skill and effort to use, but they make real parts that can withstand high stresses.

Get a Bridgeport, not a 3D printer.

All tools have their purpose. It's like shitting on a router because it won't cut HSS.

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no. its like shitting on pop sickle sticks when people try to build suspension bridges out of them

>All tools have their purpose.
Agreed. And the purpose of the 3D printer is prototyping. Not making functional objects.

That mag cost an arm and a leg compared to a commercial mag, and its lifetime will be a fraction of the time. What's the point?

It sounds more like someone that gets mad when there is a new kid on the block or fears there less easy jobs to be done.

This.
Printers wont produce high durable parts, but then a lot of parts on a gun simply dont need it, also ergonomic wise there should be more than enough potetial for lot of things to happen.

Shh! Let these dumb faggots continue to think that you can't 3D print a gun.

What advantage is a 3D printed grip going to give you that you cannot get from any of the bazillion commercial grips on the market?

Those seem to work fine for expert competition shooters who are far better than you or I, so why would we want to 3D print one?

If it's a hobby you enjoy then that's totally cool, just say so. But don't pretend that it has some kind of benefit when it really does not.

Nobody thinks that you can't do it.
We just wonder why you want such a shitty gun, that's all.

>a lot of parts on a gun simply dont need it

which part of your guns are you OK with not having durability?

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Sure thing.

What's it like having a room temp I.Q?

That is the dumbest thing I've read on Jow Forumsin like 7 years if you don't count that hunter guy...

You forgot to answer the question, sweetie.

A "shitty" gun is better than no gun.

The answer is obvious when you don't live in a bubble.

Because there aint one you want for your gun? Duh. You really trying to tell everyone there are after market parts in all shapes for every gun out there?

Going straight for the strawmaning are we? Where did i said they should not have durabilty?

Sure, I'll agree with that 100%.
But are you actually facing that situation in reality? Or do you just want to do it because it's fun or trendy?

Personally, I hasgunz so I don't see a point in 3D printing shittier ones.

>>the answer is obvious
No, not really. I can think of several possible answers but I have no idea which one you're latched onto. Care to help narrow it down?
-it's trendy
-it's fun DIY
-some kind of SHALL symbolic thing?
-you belive you can't get a gun any other way

>Because there aint one you want for your gun? Duh. You really trying to tell everyone there are after market parts in all shapes for every gun out there?
Nope. I just want to you be upfront about stating it's just for fun. I don't think that grips exist in "all shapes for every gun", but I've never encountered a problem finding a grip that suited my needs.

>>Where did i said they should not have durabilty?
That wasn't me, but IMO you implied it when you suggested 3D printing gun parts, especially if we are talking about home or hobby machines.

>Where did i said they should not have durabilty?
because we're still talking about a material that has none to begin with

about 1 minute difference

1 minute difference

looks like the two lonley 3d printer critics are actually just one sad shitposter

so you gonna try telling me you're OK with flimsy plastic on your gun?

you could break the shit by squeezing it too hard in your hand

no i am saying you are a pathetic human being, that needs to shitpost against common logic and opinion and pretend to be multiple people at once or you aint able to maintain a conversation on an anonymous image board

and talking more shit hoping i would just ignore what a sad little piece of shit you are

>deflection
You're suposed to answer the questions posed, user, not change the subject and throw around ad homenems.

there's more than one of us sweetie

Phoneposter get the fuck out

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>common logic
it's not fucking common logic
>pretend to be multiple people at once
i'm not gonna aid you in your delusion

when your shitty little plastic gun shatters into pieces the first time you trip because your fat ass can't hike over some twigs on the ground you'll know in your heart that you truly were fucking played

oh my, why does that sound so hurt?
is it because of the 38 posts to 10 posters ratio?

come on, tell us why you are doing it? are you lonely? nobody ever wants to talk to you? not even on an anonymous image board? why are you so unpleasant?

so basically what happened ITT is a couple of idiots who don't understand how versatile 3D printing can be (or just have an outdated impression that they refuse to re-examine maybe) got their shit pushed in by more knowledgeable anons, but instead of accepting that they're wrong they're gonna stick around, ignore everything that has already been discussed, and shit up the thread for anybody wanting to actually talk about the topic?

i see anons do this all the time and i don't understand
you don't look less retarded when you throw out as much white noise as possible while acting like the conversation where you got corrected never happened

>Even then a polymer layer could actually make less barrel material and thinner barrels better potentially.

Except that polymer is much weaker than metal and therefore you'd have to use a lot more polymer to make up for it, thus leading to a much thicker barrel.

Everything but the gas bearing parts and springs.

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>hobby machines
>high cost of production
Nigga u for real? Plastic costs 15€ per kilo

Steel costs 2 dollars a pound and the dimensions I get are much more accurate from a hobbyist printer to my hobbyist mill.

Yeah and?
15€ per kilo plastic still ain't expensive

Little reminder The 3d printer hater in this thread with the retard arguements and opinions is alone and pretending to be multiple people.

Shut it and kys already.

hunter 36 actual? yeah that was me. show some respect you dumb civvie

I came here to post this, the idea is not that plastic is comparable to steel, but that while wrapped around a smaller amount of steel its good enough

When you consider that you can 3D print your part to make a mold to cast said part in an appropriate metal - the whole gun can be 3D printed.

>>hobby machines
>>high cost of production
>Nigga u for real? Plastic costs 15€ per kilo

How many parts per hour are you getting out of that hobby machine?

Do you think that ratio of parts:time can keep up with real machinery?

I think you meant to say was that the whole gun can be cast. Which it already can be, even without a 3D printer.

Yes, but when you take away the aspergers the whole post loses it's pizzazz.

That's the point. It never had any pizzazz. It was based on a fundamental misunderstanding.

All of them but the barrel if you're making a Carbon-15. You might even break even cost wise with how quick they break,

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3D printers also cost electricity to use, not just plastic, and output is slow

Nothin personal kid

>It was based on a fundamental misunderstanding.
PIZZAZZ!

I hate the 3D printing meme as much as any actual manufacturing guy, but not everyone has:

>appropriate shop space
>an environment where the noise is allowed
>proper electrical service
>the money for the machine, tools, accessories, measuring equipment, metal stock, shipping & handling
>the means to maneuver a fucking Bridgeport into place, and no plans to change residences for a while

I mean MAYBE the printer guys could just get small machines and work with very soft materials, but it's still far more feasible for some 20-something hobbyist to just order a printer and filament from Amazon and plug it in his bedroom.

The feasibility is moot when you consider that the finished product is of questionable safety and reliability.

And sure, most 20 year olds probably aren't building a metal shop in their garage. But they don't need to. Put social media to use: surely you know someone who knows someone who has the machinery you can borrow. If you're a university student then use resources on campus. Rent time at a makerspace facility, etc.

You are aware people are talking about personal use here and not full blown production?

>y-ou cant do this, give us dhem jobs, those stupid kids with their plastic printin machines taken our jobs
Feels like the union of metal workers is raiding the thread.

>3D printers will replace CNC factories
>robots program themselves
it is not this day

There is the potential to 3D print parts you can sinter because a company is now producing filaments made of copper, bronze, iron, 316 stainless steel, and special order titanium and other odd metals. I don't think nor know if aluminum would work because of the oxides it produces, but that'd be the holy grain considering it's price, wide range of alloys and the fact that it's piss easy to heat treat, IE you get it hot and quench it fast, the faster, the better because its lack of carbon means that the smaller grain structures created by quick quenches are achievable that greatly increase all of it's mechanical properties

You still need to get your hands on a furnace that will allow you to actually sinter whatever you print, and that sort of shit isn't cheap. That being said, the fact that you could even print metal at around a 1,500 dollar price tag is pretty fucking appealing since that's the same price as a used Bridgeport minus a CNC conversion kit and tooling

As far as what you could do with 316 sintered stainless, go crazy, anything but bolts, bolt carriers and high stress parts

Sintered parts retain about 88-90% of the strength they normally would have, so if you can engineer around that, fucking amazing. Don't expect a high degree of accuracy though. Anything you'd print would need a lot of finishing, testing and even machining. But if you know what you're doing and have the money to buy into that, you know just what you could do with the ability to print anything you want out of steel, in any shape your printer can handle

None of those anons; but I'll ask the question.
What parts are you alright with being made from cheap plastics; or in other words, which parts are you okay with being not durable.

see

>None of those anons
>but i just jump in for a faggot that fucked up the thread and pretended to be multiple people so his position has weight

?
>read the thread
>faggot gets super defensive and calls others samefag
>someone else finishes asking the question you've ignored multiple times
>'YEAH SURE SAMEFAG'
What is it going to take to get you to answer the question user.

>You are aware people are talking about personal use here
That's what I want people to admit, but nobody has done so yet.

Who said anything about taking jobs, user? The whole point is that the 3D printed device (at the current tech level, anyway) won't take any jobs because it doesn't produce viable parts.

that will surely change as 3D printing technology improves though.

Basically the cutting edge of plastic 3d printers is nylon. If you have a good printer and it can print nylon with good adhesion you can print receivers.
Lower end can only do like petg or abs plastic. Not as strong so mostly furniture and some receivers

was talking about jobs

My company does regular business with a subcontrator who has a mutimillion dollar "3d printer" which can sinter titanium.

It's useless for most parts because it leaves behind a very rough finish. Imagine the roughness of a piece of cast iron. It's useless for anything that has to slide, pivot, or otherwise move without a lot of friction.

the parts also contain a lot of small air pockets and other inclusions. Those are all stress concentrations and points of failure waiting to happen for highly stressed parts like a barrel, bolt, or receiver.

>>Anything you'd print would need a lot of finishing, testing and even machining.
and there's the problem. Even a state-of-the art multimillion dollar 3D printer can't make parts that "just work".

No you want to force the narritive that this is actually about full blown production while basically no one asked for it and you are continuing to talk parallel to the actual topic, because it obviously triggered your autism, that people seem to have fun with something you dont like.

>No you want to force the narritive
Incorrect sir. I already told you what my autismo hangup is, and it's not the same as the one which you think it is.

DMG Mori makes a hybrid simultaneous 5 axis mill that can also DMLS.

Yeah, I get ads for them from DMG Mori on a regular basis.

I've never ran one personally but the ad literature looks like it is capable of far better finishes than the sintering machine I'm used to.

And I've seen companies sinter stainless steel M1911 receivers and parts that have gone through thousands of rounds, flawlessly

You can still polish sintered metal to a mirror finish, you need to know what you're doing though. Otherwise they wouldn't be making gears by sintering

And with inclusions and air pockets, again, know what you're doing and if you sinter the part correctly, the part will come out with anywhere 88-90% the mechanical properties it would have if it was solid. For say a Glock receiver, that'd be perfect to sinter. Or if you're looking at slides, hi points are made from cast zinc. Or maybe a shotgun receiver. Or maybe an AR lower thats been beefed up. Even if you're working at say, worst cast scenario, 85% strength, that's still ballpark 8-10 times stronger than working with straight PLA or that bullshit Markforged pulled with their fiber reinforced parts

And if you heat treat, you don't GET stress concentrations, shit, with any metal that doesn't contain carbon, the heat treatment process is piss easy to do since you've already got the furnace

And by a lot of work, I meant you need tooling and machinery, you'd need if you're finishing by hand. Which even then, you're still basically printing with metal, which I cannot see how anybody wouldn't see as being incredibly useful. For the past 10 years, the development around 3D printing has been centered around what you can do with plastic and how far you can push it. And from just fucking PVC fucking liberators and riced harbor freight Mills, we saw a shift in fucking gun control politics. Now we've got printable metal that any asshole with a high enough credit card limit, could use to put together something that's more than just a little bit rudimentary. We're not talking AR15 levels of complexity, but it's something a hell of a lot more impressive than the flintlock single shot .22 level we were on before

>And I've seen companies sinter stainless steel M1911 receivers and parts that have gone through thousands of rounds, flawlessly
Sure. Though those are created on a different sort of machine. They are not "3D printed", rather they are made on dedicated tooling, the same way that someone might make stamping dies to stamp metal parts, or a mold for injection molding plastic.

>>And if you heat treat, you don't GET stress concentrations
I was referring to stress concentrations created by defects in the part, not by heat treating. If your part contains tiny air pockets or slag inclusions those are stress concentrations regardless of your heat treatment.

>>which I cannot see how anybody wouldn't see as being incredibly useful.
...because it's rarely any better than extant processes. What's the purpose of 3D printing it if you still have to do a bunch of finishing operations? If that goal is "fun" then just say so. Don't pretend that it's actually practical (at the current state of the technology, anyway).

>> but it's something a hell of a lot more impressive than the flintlock single shot .22 level we were on before
How so?
If someone has a lot of money they'd get a lot farther buying metal cutting machinery than they would playing with 3D printing. If someone's goal is to make an improvised firearm that's untraceable or dirt cheap or whatever for SHTF then a pipe shotgun is cheaper, faster, safer.

The only niche that 3D printing currently holds is that it's fun and easy. Alas, the state of the technology limits it to that since the parts aren't really strong enough to be practical, especially for a home hobbyist who assuredly does not have access to a fancy DLMS machine

Jesus, you just keep on whining and whining and whining, because it aint like you exactly want it to be despite no one asking for it, while everyone else is happy there is a new option on the table (quite literally). Its like talking to the fudd version of a machinist.

>What's the purpose of 3D printing it if you still have to do a bunch of finishing operations?

Not that I disagree with really anything you're saying, but what's the point of casting and forging if you need finishing operations? That's how I view DMLS. Either low production parts that would ideally be made from a casting/forging, or maybe the best way to make something with complicated internal geometry that would otherwise be impossible to cut or would be an assembly.

I'm just curious what your point is. If you like it because it's fun just say so....but it sounds like you're claiming that it's honestly superior to extant production methods, and that makes no sense at all.

A "new option on the table" is meaningless unless that option offers tangible advantages.

>>talking to the fudd version of a machinist
I'm not here to take away your 3D printer user. I own one myself. I just want you to be realistic about what it is and is not good for.

It is not about what my point is, it is about your point since you are practically alone with it, still act like your approach is the only one, while everyone else is treating and approaching it from another angle and perfectly fine with it. You are posting not to exchange informations or bringing the discussion furhter, it rather looks like you love to see your own posts.

The M1911 was laser sintered powder, the end result being extremely similar to the levels of strength being tested in the regular 3D printed parts using these new kinds of filaments. If you want to talk about sintered parts not being good enough for guns, there you go, high end sintered parts.

nd if you're talking about material defects, that's a problem with ANYTHING you make. If you're talking about slag, that's not a problem ever, because sintered metal powder is some of the highest purity shit you can get, often nearly 99.99% pure in it's composition, so congrats, you're bullshitting about slag and air pockets proves you know fuck all about sintering

And the point is retarded, any asshole can plug in any old 3D printer, then fucking print an AR lower that will last just as long as a forged lower because it's made of steel which is still twice as strong as aluminum, and far fucking stronger than PLA, or whatever bullshit plastic gets put out. And you don't need an expensive knee mill, you don't need a CNC conversion kit, you don't need tooling that's worth as much as the fucking mill itself, you don't need a tech degree to run and maintain the fucking thing, you don't need a fuck ton of programs and CAD software, not to mention books, and a whole bunch of other shit you need to machine a fucking AR lower.

Or you print out your metal lower, put it in a box, cover the box in sintering powder, put it into an oven to bake for three hours, take it out, clean it up, file down the point bits and bumps, out it back in with a disposition powder that will seal it and make it fucking usable, pull it out and fucking plate it which is piss easy, or put it in a polisher for a few days. Three days, unregistered AR, or a Glock, or whatever
If fucking 85% the strength of fucking stainless steel isnt useful, then thank fucking good you make minimum bend sheet metal and don't sit behind a desk

>It is not about what my point is
That's entirely what it is about. The moment someone admits that it is just for fun is the moment that I shut up and stop posting.

>> still act like your approach is the only one,
I haven't even stated what my approach is. The only thing I'm doing is claiming that 3D printing firearms parts is impractical for anything other than fun hobby purposes. Other people are claiming it has legitimate advantages, which are simply not true. If people stop posting errors then I will have no need to correct them.

>>You are posting not to exchange informations or bringing the discussion furhter,
I would love to bring the discussion further. The problem is that I don't have anything to work off of. People refuse to admit their motivations behind their interest here so I have no idea how to proceed with helping.

State a problem you're having with your gun parts design or manufacture and I'll be happy to help.

Or, answer the other user's question from way back when:
>What parts are you alright with being made from cheap plastics; or in other words, which parts are you okay with being not durable.

Name a part and we'll talk about the optimal methods of making them.

>nd if you're talking about material defects, that's a problem with ANYTHING you make. If you're talking about slag, that's not a problem ever, because sintered metal powder is some of the highest purity shit you can get, often nearly 99.99% pure in it's composition, so congrats, you're bullshitting about slag and air pockets proves you know fuck all about sintering

The reason I mentioned slag and inclusions in the parts being a problem is because that's one I had to deal with earlier this year. I hired the shop with the titanium sintering operation to make me some kickstand brackets for my motorcycle business. We had them sinter the part, then my shop did some follow-up machining on them. We figured the part would be great for sintering because it's an oddball shape that would be difficult to hold in our normal mills. Once we received the parts and faced one side we could see the inclusions in the material, just like if you faced off a shitty casting that had a porosity problem. We also had a lot of problems with taps breaking, so I shitcanned the product.

>>And the point is retarded, any asshole can plug in any old 3D printer, then fucking print an AR lower that will last just as long as a forged lower because it's made of steel
Are you suggesting that "any asshole" has access to a 3D printer which can make a steel AR lower without the need for followup operations?

>>Or you print out your metal lower, put it in a box, cover the box in sintering powder....
What would my motivation be for doing so?
-Is it fun? Cool, no disagreement from me, just say so.
-Money? That sounds a lot more expensive than just buying an AR lower. Less reliable and more work too.
-Circumventing the law?
-SHTF emergency? Seems a lot more complicated than making a different kind of weapon.

>The moment someone admits that it is just for fun is the moment that I shut up and stop posting.
see You are full of shit.

>hurr durr i will only be gone when everyone in this thread adapts to the view angle i set up and says some special magical words i demand to be said

Welp, here it is, the proof you have fuck and all for experience in engineering, and closes any doubt that you know fuck all about manufacturing

You faced off sintered titanium you retard, what you saw wasn't inclusions, that was likely either the porosity of the SINTERED part, which typically has the drawback of POROSITY which is why it needs additional FINISHING like impregnation or plating to SEAL the pores. Did you send the part back to them? Did they tell you they used a bad batch of powder? Or did they rightfully call you retarded because you didn't know what you're doing by paying up the ass for fucking titanium SLM motorcycle brackets that apparently are too hard to hold on a tormach. Oh wait, is CNC tech too advanced and convenient? Just a passing fad that doesn't have any use, right?

I'm saying any asshole with access to a 400 dollar 3D printer, a set of metal files, and the ability to read instructions on two tubs and a nickel plating kit, is having an easier time than the asshole programming gcode
And it's got everything to do with the fact that the kind of jackass that'd buy a ghost Gunner, now theoretically has the ability to manufacture metal gun parts that are the absolute easiest to regulate. If I had more balls than money and time, I'd be testing to see how the tech scales to making a slide on a Glock because basically everything else on a Glock is springs, sheet metal and a barrel

Fucking hell, I'd put money on the fact that since you can print 316 stainless, with a high, high fucking precision printer, I could print off an entire .22lr Glock and get it finished using nothing but a barrel liner, springs, appropriate hand made sheet metal pars, and a drill pressz with a monocore can to boot

If you don't see the utility in that, not my

Hey guys come take a look at this.

>You are full of shit.
That person asked a question. He/she did not say "I know it's not really practical, I just think it's fun".

>You faced off sintered titanium you retard, what you saw wasn't inclusions, that was likely either the porosity of the SINTERED part
We saw both porosity and slag using SEM.

>> Did you send the part back to them?
Not send, give. But yes. They're right next door to us.

>> Or did they rightfully call you retarded because you didn't know what you're doing by paying up the ass for fucking titanium SLM motorcycle brackets
There was none of that, no. This was a project they suggested. Their main business is medical implants but they don't get enough business to keep the machine busy so they were looking for outside work to do. I told them that if they could make said brackets I'd be happy to buy them from them. They tried, it didn't work. It didn't cost me anything except some wasted time and some busted taps.

>>Oh wait, is CNC tech too advanced and convenient?
Who said anything about that bullshit strawman? I own 4 CNC machines, and several more manual machines. I run a machine shop. We have a 3D printer as well. You?

>>I'm saying any asshole with access to a 400 dollar 3D printer, a set of metal files, and the ability to read instructions on two tubs and a nickel plating kit, is having an easier time than the asshole programming gcode
Agreed 100%. I'm not advocating a hobbyist try to make guns by CNC either.

>>now theoretically has the ability to manufacture metal gun parts that are the absolute easiest to regulate.
So this is about building clandestine guns?

>If you don't see the utility in that, not my
not your.....? what
And no, I don't see any utility in that. If you want a functional firearm without the man knowing there are far cheaper and easier ways to go than an expensive 3D printer.

honest question: if the goal is to make clandestine weapons, untraceable weapons, weapons without "the man" knowing about it, weapons that are hard to regulate, and so on, then what advantage does current 3D printed tech have over, say, a pipe shotgun or similar improvised weapon?

The latter requires no downloads which could be traced or restricted. It costs less than buying material for the 3D printer, let alone the printer itself. It is far more reliable. It is safer for the user. So what does the 3D printer option offer which the, say, pipe shotgun, or similar weapon does not?

You know what is really funny though? Your autism in wanting to hear some certain phrases, that no one else cares about. One can almost see you with crossed arms, angry look on your face and stomping one feet on the ground out of anger.
People will use 3d printers to add mods for their guns and build guns. Get fucking over it.
>but you cant make this or that part for a gun out of it
Did someone said that in that context and that meaning? No, get over it already.

I'm not angry, just confused.

>People will use 3d printers to add mods for their guns and build guns. Get fucking over it.
That doesn't bother me one bit. I think you're misunderstanding where I am coming from entirely.

I think it's cool that people mod their own guns with home 3D printed parts. I'm just confused as to why they don't just come out and admit that it's just for fun, and instead claim that there is practical reasoning behind it.

I'm not opposed to 3D printed guns. I'm opposed to claiming they have any purpose other than fun or perhaps R&D for a firearms designer, at least at the current level of technology. Cool and fun, yes. Practical? No.

How can it be just for fun when people will manufacture practical things with it they will use? You sound like the retards that say that people will do nothing with the new 3d printers for regular people a few years ago. Now we got a shiton of people repairing and moding stuff they could have never done so easily. Weaponwise it is this
>oh my god, glocks are made of plastic, they never will be good guns
vibe all over again.

>How can it be just for fun when people will manufacture practical things with it they will use?
Because they are willing to accept a substandard quality part, at greater cost and greater effort than buying a commercial part. The motivation is therefore "fun" rather than practicality.

> say that people will do nothing with the new 3d printers for regular people a few years ago
I was among that group, yes.

>>. Now we got a shiton of people repairing and moding stuff they could have never done so easily.
We got a bunch of not very durable and ugly looking "repairs" for a higher cost compared to traditional options. I'm not sure what we've "gained" really, except more steps to the time when 3D printers will become more than just novelties.

>>>oh my god, glocks are made of plastic, they never will be good guns
>>vibe all over again.
Sure is strawmanny in here. I love Glocks.

>Because they are willing to accept a substandard quality part, at greater cost and greater effort than buying a commercial part.
Because there only is that one possibility and people will of course only do that despite not looking into what makes sense when.

Seriously, do you have some sort of mental disfunction or are you just trolling?

>I was among that group, yes.
>We got a bunch of not very durable and ugly looking "repairs" for a higher cost compared to traditional options. I'm not sure what we've "gained" really, except more steps to the time when 3D printers will become more than just novelties.
Okay, case closed, you are just plain retarded and making stuff up, this is even too stupid for trolling.

>Sure is strawmanny in here. I love Glocks.
I never said you claimed that, i only just said that it is the same kind of vibe weaponwise.

You were not able to produce one single argument, that actually makes sense without overfocusing on stuff no one is claiming. You are just stupid, be stupid somewhere else.

What is next? The next round of
>what? i dont understand, i just said this crap that is not ment, no one looks at it like me and no one cares about beside me, so why wont they tell me i am right?