I'm having a hard time understanding the benefits of DI in for example the AR-15 and M16/M4, over the short stroke system used in HK-G36, AR-18, and HK416. The HK416 is an AR style rifle but uses short stroke operation in order to ameliorate the issues with reliability of the Stoner DI system. The main issue is supposedly that the bolt and carrier are heated far too much by the incoming hot gases, which burns off crucial lubricant; causing jams.
Is there any reason to choose DI over short stroke? The piston is still moving in-line with the stock, so there should be no increase in muzzle rise or other reduction of accuracy, at least that's my assumption..
lighter, more accurate, more inline recoil. I havent lubed my guns since I got them and put many thousands of rounds of steel case through them without issue but that might be because I own upper quality rifles and dont mag dump often. Im convinced issues mostly come from grunts handling them, worn out parts, and magazine choices.
Nathaniel Ward
>burns off the crucial lubricant This is a good thing. 99% of people who "oil" their firearms are doing more harm than if they just kept them bone dry.
Lack of lube is number one cause of jams. I think the Stoner type DI is the most elegant operating system by far, I just wish I could get to the bottom of whether in a scenario where maintaining your gun was far harder, the system would become jammed up way more than short stroke/long stroke. There are finishes you can get for BCGs that pretty much remove the need for lube though.
How does it harm them? Serious question not trying to be sarcastic.
Bentley Green
I use the barest amount of lube in my ARs. Because I use an ultrasonic for cleaning I have to dry parts thoroughly after the wash which I do so with compressed air followed by WD40 to drive out remaining moisture, then pat off as much of the oil as possible with cloth.
The bolts run perfectly and stay cleaner this way.
Nathaniel Green
I use a rag and a toothbrush.
Jackson Walker
>fighting gun >convoluted cleaning process that requires special equipment and electricity
Good job
Juan Price
The fact that they are cheaper and more available notwithstanding, they are lighter, better balanced and, for me personally, have better ergos. I also think the issues with DI are often over-exaggerated mostly by companies marketing their alternative. I've never owned or handled a 416 but I own a SCAR 16s so I can only use that as the modern, short-stroke, AR-18 derivative stand-in, especially since it seems everybody else is copying the SCAR's extruded aluminum upper/polymer lower formula for their flavor of AR-18s. I much prefer the lighter weight, better balance and thinner fore end of the AR. The SCAR is just more front heavy and only gets worse when you start putting shit on it. The SCAR handguard also gets hot quicker. I'm not sure how much that happens on a 416. I also prefer the AR recoil impulse but that's mostly preference. You make "burning off lube" sound like a much, much bigger issue than it is in actuality. I've never seen anyone burn off all the lube to where it causes problems. I'm sure you might find some "burn down" video where it happened but aside from being an extreme and unlikely case, those typically go way, way beyond a normal combat load. Also, the ones I've seen always fail at the gas tube or barrel, not because of lube burn off. The 416 and the SCAR were created to ameliorate issues with ARs particularly in very short barreled configurations while suppressed. That's where they have noticeable advantages to where I believe they are worth the trade offs. In 14.5" barrels or longer, I'd stick with the AR.
>bolt and carrier are heated far too much >which burns off crucial lubricant; causing jams That's not really an issue with contemporary AR-15 derivatives. The cheap shit from PSA can go 5,000 rounds without cleaning/lubing and still pass a sand test: youtu.be/crdPv6nAQwU?t=39
>The piston is still moving in-line with the stock About as "in-line with the stock" as your charging handle
>there should be no increase in muzzle rise or other reduction of accuracy How about that piston and regulator assembly clamped onto the barrel? Did you think that wouldn't negate the free-floated configuration of your rail?
The lubricant/oil attracts dirt/sand, but over lubing your rifle isn't really an issue if you're not going to drop it into a sand box
Charles Hall
This. Just a noguns passing by, but in the military we were literally told not to shoot our rifles with oil in them because it'd burn up or something. A nonexistent amount was fine, but oil was practically just for cleaning.
Carson Allen
I’m not a soldier in the field. What troubles you, friend?
Daniel White
Holy shit this is autistic, and not in the hahafunny way.
Thomas Fisher
it's not autistic it's convoluted and retarded
Blake Mitchell
Which is the definition of autism. Thank god for genetic counseling.
Gabriel Robinson
Holy shit are you unironically retarded? This is a faster, easier process than getting your hands dirty with toothbrushes and solvents and shit.
Jace Bailey
Not everyone has the money or inclination to find and buy an ultrasonic cleaner specifically for their funs, user.
Grayson Gutierrez
DI benefits = Lighter and vastly less autistic. Piston= Non-op fatbodies can pretend they're operator as fuck.
Carter Murphy
There are no real reasons to use DI
Piston guns are equally accurate for every day purposes. You're talking about match grade "WE NEED TO SHAVE OFF 1/8 MOA" nonsense and even then gas vs. di is less important than a decent barrel-receiver attachment. The piston system weighs a couple of ounces. The differences in recoil are negligible.
DI shits where it eats until the gun jams itself >just clean it lol not always an option, and if you added up all the time you spent cleaning (assuming you actually shot the damn thing), you probably could have just worked overtime and bought a piston upper
Connor Cook
having a gas block and tube clamped to the barrel doesn't help accuracy either. considering there are moa or better piston guns, i think you're just going off broscience.
direct impingement is one thing only: cheap ironically the rest of the rifle is not.
how lazy and autistic are you user? throwing a fucking BCG in an ultrasound for cleaning lmfao
Ryder Kelly
Nickel-Boron coating.
Gabriel Cox
it doesnt help accuracy but it also doesnt have as much mass or separate moving parts to rattle attached to it
Gavin Davis
Ultimately there is nothing wrong with DI. I use a piston because of cans and because I don't like to clean my rifles a lot. As far as DI goes you can still shoot thousands of rounds without cleaning before even thinking about reliability issues.
Evan Perez
Short stroke isnt more reliable. MSBR is identical between the two. The real reason short stroke exists on an AR is that DI and short, high pressure, gas system lengths dont go well together. The shorter the gas system, the faster the cyclic rate, the more quickly parts wear (not to mention the recoil impulse is less pleasant at high bolt velocities). And at some point lock time isnt long enough and you'll end up ripping heads off cases. Pistons, because of their weight, mostly ignore those effects. The only reason the 416 exists is because pistons were trendy when it was designed. One of the contributors to P&S, Ash, worked on the 416 project and explained it exactly like that.
