Why not make guns electronic?

>anons gun jams and he's waiting for it to unjam itself while it goes BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP
>meanwhile other user just slapped his bolt forward and shot him

So it cycles the bolt like you'd do manually? Wow.

>Hangfire
>Goes off as it's being ejected
>You eat the bolt of your fancy electronic turd.

Cool, you got the design for a light weight, shock, heat, water, resistant unobtrusive machine that can be slapped on to any existing gun with minimal re-engineering?

This is how electric car tards think funnily enough
just it is capitalized on by greedy assholes who know they can profit off their stupidity

Are you literally stupid? You realize that the ACOG's, spotting scopes, fighter jet targeting systems, tank targeting systems, helicopter targeting systems, lights, lasers and much more are all electronic yet highly in use? Seriously you're fucking dumb, not all electronics are created equal and electronic firing systems already exist on large artillery and naval guns, its only a matter of time before the technology is refined and waters down to small arms. Mark my words, it may not happen this lifetime, but it will happen.

>bad guy breaks into your house
>you confront him with your Amazon iGun Pro
>he rushes you with a knife
>pull the trigger
>nothing happens because the gun is in the middle of a software update

The user who said that it introduces failure points is right, however the failure points introduced are that you now not only have a team of engineers to trust when you need to make the thing go bang, but a team of programmers as well.

I didn't realize the autoloader on 120mm cannons was man portable. TMYK.

Imagine a computer controller bolt action rifle
of course it can still be manually operated
It does it as fast as you want
fuck man I've never actually had a hangfire
>that can be slapped on to any existing gun with minimal re-engineering?
fuck off

Idea: connect it directly to your arteries to charge the battery
the rush of blood with turn a turbine

>fighter jet targeting systems, tank targeting systems, helicopter targeting systems

A bunch of shit that you don't carry with your dickbeaters, 'tard.

So, does this increase the overall weight of the rifle?
>cycle as fast as you want
Why is this an issue? And would you run into the machine running so fast it jerks the rifle forward because of momentum?
>slapped on to an existing firearm
Is this an improvement or are you just leading us around?

Yes it will make the gun heavier
Grow some balls

So it will be counter productive to the recent trend of making rifles shorter and lighter? Oof.

The best argument against an idiot like OP is just tell him to make one himself with an Arduino. Don't worry, we'll be waiting, come back to us when you have a working prototype.

And that's the last you'll ever hear of OP again

Man you guys are dumb. The same concepts can be applied and modified to fit small arms, obviously you dont literally take the exact targeting/firing system in a jet and put it on a rifle, you modify the system and adapt it to rifles, it's already been done with scopes and spotter scopes, can easily be adapted to a trigger system. The fact that this has to be explained shows how low your iq is

So how is a scope like a miniature motor that cycles bolts at fractions of c? that can also detect hang fires?

> if you cant make it yourself it cant be done
Learn to debate you moron

This is the same type of cuck who cried about semi autos while he held onto his shitty wheel gun back in the early 1900's

What's so hard about this, someone in sometime in the future is going to design it. Why do I have to worry about the details?

Who said it would do all that? I sure didnt. It could be as simple as having a button you press to fire instead of a mechanical trigger (a la minigun).

>can cycle the bolt as fast as you want
Light speed bolt manipulation please

The problem is, if you miniaturize it to that point, you are sacrificing a lot of durability and redundancy. And it’s also heavy. And it provides no real benefit. And it provides major points of failure.

What makes a firearm a good firearm really comes down to its reliability. A firearm with less that can go wrong is better in that term. Yeah if a gun could have all those features and be just as reliable sure but right now, while it may be possible, would be too expensive to reach adequate sales to keep it on the market. Though with that said I’m sure some of those features would be a nightmare to get to function reliably. Motors failing, programming hanging, potential for high heat and moisture to become and issue since these would be much smaller systems than our military deploys right now.

this, the appeal of striker fired guns like glocks isn't that they're feature packed or revolutionary, it's that they hold reasonable amounts of ammo and fire them at acceptable accuracy in an acceptable way with very high reliability
nobody is going to put up with a gun that jams every 100 rounds except irate 0331s, and that's only because he's getting paid to do it and isn't smart enough to comprehend how badly he's being fucked over

Unless parts are embedded in gun they will shake apart. No easy repairs if they are built in. Poor durability. I'm also skeptical of red dots that aren't made of uranium though.

It's an infantry rifle as accurate as a sniper

One day we will look back on this thread and say "Wow, look at all these fudds and their old grandpa guns."

Except the major limit to accuracy is still going to be mechanical.

>low iq
You are one of those retards who worships Sargon of Applebees, aren't you?

Also they work differently. An A-10's GAU-8 works way differently than say an SKS or an AR. For chasing after the next big thing try going after double stack shotgun mags or caseless ammunition.

Electronic triggers have already been invented you just need to attach one to a real firearm

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Also, grunts are retarded. They’re going to find a way to break it.

The mechanical accuracy wont necessarily change, but the ease of shooting will, ie the average infantry man will be more accurate on average with it. Once again, this is just speculation, but to suggest that electronics in a firearm is a horrible idea is just stupid. The point is that there are legitimately good ways they can be implemented, especially as technology keeps progressing.

Like what? Auto mag changes? The ability to levitate and shoot on its own? Self adjusting barrel to maximize accuracy depending on the nearest direction of the breeze?

No one is chasing after the next big thing, we are simply discussing it, but then 5 boomer retards jump in immediately shutting down the conversation when none of you have a clue what you're actually talking about. We are just discussing possible points and methods of implementation of electronics in firearms, not trying to pretend we know the future.

Also, yes obviously a rifle works differently than a aircraft gun, but the point is the same concept can be applied, just has to be modified and made reliable. Which definitely can happen.

Adjustable fire rate for machine guns would be a good use for electronic upgrades

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Electric priming (and therefore an electronic trigger with a light and consistent pull and more "safe action" than any glock) is actually a possibility. Increased reliability. Reduced ammo cost. No such thing as a bad primer, only a bad rifle. Also enables simpler caseless ammo. The electronics needed for it would be dead simple and blended with mechanical parts preventing OOB discharges. The power source could be a battery (possibly in the mag), or electricity generated by the reciprocating action.

Such rifles would be simpler to maintain and repair and less failure prone so long as the electrical system were well designed. The absolute worst case scenario would be worn electrodes for the ignition system. The electrodes could be a disposable item, and multiples could be loaded into the gun for fast changes, or they could be part of magazines and last as long as the magazine's capacity (one primer per box of ammo) without resorting to a complicated ammo counter and electrode ejection system.

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Hmm almost like its a topic thats been discussed to death by the same five retards non stop. Who have the same opinion and ineptitude when it comes to electronics. So you'll excuse us when we tell you to fuck off instead of listening to your hair brain ideas for the third time this month.

Actual engineer here, all electronics can and will fail. This is why industrial electronics are designed to be serviceable.

The issue is you still require all the mechanical aspects of a gun, so you are only adding additional points of failure.

Now watch some basement dwelling faggot tell me I'm wrong despite the fact I design robots for a living.

t. gigafactory design engineer

>ammo counter
if it works like a spark plug, a simple circuit measuring resistance when checked would allow monitoring ignitor health and pre-emptive replacement.

all chunks of metal can and will fail, that is why they are designed to be taken apart and serviced (cleaned, oiled, polished, checked for stress fractures, wear, and bending). i used to work as a maintenance engineer in a factory with the simplest electronics because the equipment was slightly older than my dad. guess what was always failing? the metal. even the new replacements parts wore down and failed. guess what fails in guns? the metal. AK47s break their own receivers, bolt lugs wear down, firing pins get hammered flat. shit happens with high round counts. but i can make electronics on my desk and need a mill and quality billets for making metal chunks.

The German MG4 from H&K already has that feature.

>having electrodes to wear down
>not lasers

Lol I have an engineering degree you dumb cuck, trust me I know about 5x more than you on the topic. Your knowledge is limited to the user end level, you've never actually designed a piece of machinery, so let's not pretend we're on the same level. If you dont like it go to another thread, only one thread is being used why does it even bother you.

Thank you. Electric ignition can offer a lot of new design ideas in shape of the rifle and ammunition. And people always underestimate how durable properly made electronics actually are.

What's simple about an actuator than can manipulate a bolt a 1,000rpm? While also being compact and less than a pound?

Typically the people who flaunt their accreditations instead of solutions are the least appropriate to offer said solutions.

For certain applications, having added benefits can outweigh the extra points of failure. Not every role has to be about 100% reliability.

Isn't reliability the most important aspect of any firearm?

>Why not make guns electronic?

Because the gun industry caters to luddite retards that would rather buy a derivative of something 100 years old than something that's using modern technology. Just look at this thread for evidence. Paintball guns are more advanced than real guns and have been electropneumatic for decades. There is no insurmountable technological barrier to prevent this from happening.

The most significant obstacle (and it is a very significant obstacle) for the technology would be designing the firearm so that it can't be easily converted into full auto. If you had an electronic trigger it would be relatively simple to do since you could just swap your fire control group out for a modified one that fires the gun repeatedly if you hold the trigger down, even if mechanically the gun is firing in semi-auto.

>Thank you

No need, the superior intellect of weebs is a given.

These niggers are freaking out over scary electronics when igniting a fuel charge electronically is done in their cars for hours at a time at temperatures that would make machineguns blush. As long as the ignition system is not retarded (some jew would do primer-per-mag and say it was more reliable, i guarantee you), there shouldn't be any problems.

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Listen buddy I never claimed to be the next john browning, all I'm saying is that electronic systems in a firearm are definitely plausible, whereas you're saying they arent, I dont have to go design it myself to make that observation, I already have a job.

>Because the gun industry caters to luddite retards that would rather buy a derivative of something 100 years old than something that's using modern technology.
It's sad because it's true

>dude, check out my browning hi-power
>wow, you have a browning hi-power too? who made that one?
>glock!
>lame, CZ made my hi-power. CZ makes the best hi-powers.
>FAGS BEGONE, MY RIFLE FROM THE 50S IS THE BEST KILLING MACHINE EVER MADE
>cyka blyat, rifle from 40s is more reliable

Never said they weren't plausible. We asked you for examples and you went on a hissyfit acting like you were being personally attacked. If you fold this easy lord help whoever has the misfortune of hiring you.

Generally, yes. So either it would be limited to roles where added benefits but less reliability are worth it, or the design would be eventually made rugged enough as technology progresses to be extremely reliable and easy to maintain.

>These niggers are freaking out over scary electronics when igniting a fuel charge electronically is done in their cars for hours at a time at temperatures that would make machineguns blush.
cars are not guns, and you need to look at the price of used cars manufactured in the last 10 years
that's all because of the "reliable electronics"

Static.

So it'd need to be fully encased then right? Thus adding to the bulkiness and weight of the rifle.

>cars are not guns, and you need to look at the price of used cars manufactured in the last 10 years
>that's all because of the "reliable electronics"

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^^ you didnt ask for examples at all, you just tried to shut down the discussion for no reason. Anyways, let's agree to disagree.

Nah not gonna wait for a windows 10 patch on my fucking clock while Tyrese is hopped up on Jamba Juice trying to rape my dog with a 38 special

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Wait has anyone built a diy electric minigun?

Wow, I only got one (You) out of that. Thanks bud. Where'd you say you got your degree from?

>Paintball guns are more advanced than real guns and have been electropneumatic for decades.

Two decades. Since 1996. And they were shit for one of those decades.

Anyway, please, show me your design for an elecropnumatic gun that's superior to real guns.

FYI, pneumatic guns have been around for a hundred fifty years or so. Throughout that time, they're constantly been found to be inferior.

The reliable electronics (just the ignition system, not the fuel metering computer) are the cheapest parts of a recent car actually. Ignition coils are

I would like to remind everyone that lack of reliability is not a valid argument, granted we make the assumption that this technology will continue to develop through the future. Unless you are a prophet, you have no way of knowing what the standards of reliability will be in the future.

It was not that long ago that electronic optics were considered too unreliable so as to be used as primary aiming device. Let's not forget the old days where co-witnessing with even an Aimpoint sight was practically a necessity. This is not even addressing the endless stream of electronics that are required to run modern weapon systems and our ever-growing dependence on them.

Even if you as a civilian firearms owner don't like it, the electronically-augmented firearm will become reality. It's highly unlikely that organizations like DARPA and NSWC would abandon any prospect of development in these future firearms just because of the current low standards of reliability. That said, I think there is a permanent place for purely mechanical firearms due to their relative simplicity and low cost. I don't see why we can't benefit from both systems, when we rely on a mix of the digital and mechanical to run so many of the other devices in our lives.

A shit ton has been put into caseless ammo where the fuck have you been? Until you can make ammo that doesn't create heat were at the same place we've always been.
>just use a super rare metal that doesn't heat up as fast
Yeah alright.

you know fuck all about electromagnetism

There are some. Almost all western rotary cannons and miniguns are powered by electric motors.

As for firearms, it would be potentially useful in machine pistols and PDWs for police/anti-terror use maybe since you could get a very low and controllable full auto rate. And power wouldn't be an issue since they'd presumably be kept charged and ready in cars and vans.

It seemed like it was you from the flow of the conversation. I'm still not seeing your request for examples though.

UT Austin

>Just use a propellant that won't cook off
Yeah alright.

The ignition system is reliable, ammo that crosses a cheap and light threshold that makes it worth it is still in the works.

>many dozens of projects and hundreds of millions of dollars over many decades try to make a better gun
>every one fails
>must be because they're all dumb retards, unlike me. t. teenage paintshitter

Wow, two people on this entire site can have the same opinion? Fucking hell you must have graduated top of your class at that fuckhole. Last time I passed through Austin they were fucking each others ear gauges in the street.

>Basic solid state electronics are cheap, simple, and reliable and you would know this if you weren't stupidly ignorant.
i was clearly talking about the recent proliferation of useless shit built into cars along with planned obsolescence and horrific maintenance, retard

Non cooking off propellant is an issue but if you increase the threshold of it what else will you have to increase the threshold of? Oh, right the rest of the gun. Whoopsiedaisy.

Yeah, but he still has a degree and you don't though. I've read your entire discussion and it's literally just shit flinging.

>These niggers are freaking out over scary electronics when igniting a fuel charge electronically is done in their cars for hours at a time at temperatures that would make machineguns blush.

So you're going to replace gunpowder with gasoline? Because if not, the reliability of spark plugs really doesn't matter.

mostly a problem for machine guns. the first electronic/caseless arms will probably be mass market semi-autos and hunting rifles

more like many of them succeed but they aren't accepted by the army so they never go anywhere and remain niche hobby arms.

upside down HK VP7? neat, more than sufficient for regular people, maybe ideal, but for "muh duty pistol shootin sandnigs in the sandbox" it's too finnicky so they use a glorified browning hi-power.

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>Propellant doesn't cook off, only ignites through the electronic ignition system
>oh no, the gun is still getting hot

Hot guns are a solved problem

And look where that degree got him? Arguing with retards on the internet. Also I hopped in half way because I'm interested as to what he can bring to the table. So far it's been
>dont you know I have a degree
and
>well not me but future people can figure it out

I agree with this

Until the ignition system overheats, the gun overheats, the operator overheats. Stuff like that. Also cost/benefit the new round can be great and all but if it costs $30 to pull the trigger then you're no better than where you started.

Maybe ask him for specific examples - I still haven't seen any get mentioned. You basically just called him a Sargon fan and then proceeded to insult him for mentioning his credentials. I'm inclined to agree with him based on the rapid development of firing solutions on all levels alone,

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Fun fact, I didn't call him a Sargon fan. I'll let you in on a little secret. There are multiple people on this website who can have similar opinions.

We've already figured it out. The bureacrats, bean counters, and boomers don't think it's a good enough upgrade for the massive investment.

So you finally finish the R&D and polish the kinks out of a solid concept. Once you did that, you would have to overhaul every production line. You'd have to change storage protocols. You'd have to re-train millions of soldiers. You'd need new magazines for the new guns and they wouldn't be usable for your old brass. It would be a logistics nightmare. Why wouldn't they just take an iterative improvement that still used the same ammo and mag stocks they have? Who the fuck cares if the new idea is slightly lighter and slightly cheaper, that's why you have basic training and tax dollars.

And for what? A modicum increase in reliability? Totally worth it right? Look at that now you're thinking with your head in the fresh air.

Dear Mr. Dumb Nigger,

I (used to) have an electric motorcycle. It literally has mandatory software updates that can make the bike ride like shit for a few days until people complain and they issue another patch. Imagine mandatory intervals that brick your gun if you don't update it, then going to the range one day and your gun has a half-second delay on the trigger. You then rant about it on the forums, which results in deleted posts while the company responsible goes into damage-control mode and assures everyone that "a fix is coming," to which it does, 2 weeks later, and it's a marginal improvement on the problem that breaks something else.

You want that in something you would trust your life on? No you don't. Calling me a luddite because tech is inherently subject to change at a moment's notice leaving you beholden to shitty companies who don't care about support (since you already bought the thing) is just ignorant.

Wonder if it's possible to use inert material with a high heat capacity or something that undergoes an endothermic reaction upon ignition (of the rest of the composition) as part of a caseless round without fouling the barrel.

Polymer cased telescoped will probably win out in the end anyway, other than in low pressure applications like those caseless muzzle loading 40mm grenades the russians have been using for ages.

I also have an electronic motorcycle

It spins a little generator and a little switch that distributes electrical current to the spark plugs at the right time to make the gas go boom.

As for gas, when the pistons move they suck air in through this little thing that's like a tube with a smaller tube going down to a bowl of gas. it's like a perfume bottle in that it sprays gas as air goes through it.

Really reliable. Never let me down, ever. I have to replace the battery sometimes though. It has a system to keep it charged but those only last so long.

It really depends. I have another (different) electric motorcycle which thankfully is very simple and doesn't have a bunch of retards fucking with the throttle response in "updates" every so often. So yes, I admit, the technology isn't inherently bad, however, if the goal is to turn a gun into a computer, that's what you are gonna get: the exact same problems you have with computers that aren't attached to other things.

>luddite designers
>luddite consumers
>typical risks associated with a radically new product line in an industry that has traditionally been slow to change

some mix of the above

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the Voere VEC-91 yet? It uses caseless ammunition with an electronic ignition system. No idea if it was reliable, though.

You wouldn't make a firearm electropneumatic, but the simplest design for an electronic gun would use the same principles of operating the gun by microswitch trigger and solenoid. It would be very simple to design a striker fired gun to have an electronically-operated sear in this way.

>Anyway, please, show me your design for an elecropnumatic gun that's superior to real guns.

I don't have a design, but there is no reason why this wouldn't work. Paintball guns are just the best example of a similar system in practice.

pull trigger
solenoid turns on
sear drops
guns fires
action recoils and loads next round as you'd expect
repeat