Jow Forums, I need you to settle an argument I had with my friends when we were discussing SHTF Scenarios...

No. You forget that all those blue counties are massively, MASSIVELY more populous than the red counties. There's no fucking way those people stay put for any amount of time - anarchy and violence in the cities forces them out, and while the red areas have armed people - there's no fucking stopping the hordes of hispanics from LA moving east, or the blacks from the midwest moving south, vice versa.

Most people will die from diseases from unsanitary conditions becaus their immune systems will be comprimised from lack of sleep and nutrition.

This. Also I’ll be jacking it as much as I can while I still got battery life on my laptop. One good farewell to the spank bank. This will be how must of us will legitemately die. Grabbing our dicks and double clicking. Dying, holding on to the porn archives that have always been with us in our time of needs and out lasted any of our humanly relationships.

Militias ranging in quality from untrained hordes that don't even have enough weapons to small armies composed of or trained by form military personnel fighting for control of cities and natural resources, plus throw in PMCs and possible international peacekeepers in major population centers that are hubs for world trade.

Basically think Somalia, but white people and beaners in addition to niggers, on a continental scale, and with a death toll in the tens of millions.

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You lack vision.

Those who have the most guns, ammo, and fuel will dominate.

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There's pissed off farmers to stop them. A carload of gangbangers in bumbfuck, Iowa won't stand a chance against a couple ranchers who've been hunting their whole lives.

Also no laws stopping you from IEDing the hordes.

What about resources?

Not unless there was a presidential election I wasn't aware of.

During normal emergency situations major roadways are completely blocked off, usually by National Guard. And the entrances to small towns are guarded by local police.
Now imagine it's a civil war. Not only will people not be allowed into or out of cities, they'll be killed.
Blockades will probably be the first thing to happen so that food and fuel don't make it INTO the major cities.
It's a war based on ideology and geographical location. The way you stop people from moving is the same way you win the war.
Kill them.
That's the whole point.

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>raiders wont exist like you think they might
Lol wtf are you smoking idiot?
You think gangs will just disappear in SHTF?

>Hey Hey it’s the monkeys!

No major city has enough food to last more that a week.
Without out regular deliveries they’ll start to fall apart after a week or two.
People will attempt a mass exodus to areas that can sustain them.
Unfortunately most rural areas near major cities aren’t much better off.
They can sustain themselves but don’t produce enough to sustain a massive influx of hungry people.
You see Africa tier gang warfare as the last city dwellers fight to control whatever they need to survive.
Even relief deliveries will be attacked so that only a handful will benefit from them.

>No major city has enough food to last more that a week.
Correct.
>Without out regular deliveries they’ll start to fall apart after a week or two.
Correct.
>People will attempt a mass exodus to areas that can sustain them.
Correct.
>Unfortunately most rural areas near major cities aren’t much better off.
Wrong. Supply lines between Republican held areas will not be cut off. Democrat strongholds (inner cities) will be completely isolated and will be in that situation because of the war, BECAUSE of the blockade. The democrats won't just say, "for some unknown reason we don't have food let's go for a stroll out of the city and look for food."
The Republican forces will PURPOSEFULLY block resources from going into the Democrat areas of the country. Then they will PURPOSEFULLY stop the Democrats from leaving.
>They can sustain themselves but don’t produce enough to sustain a massive influx of hungry people.
Correct. But they are not cut off from the areas of the country that actually produce resources, which are 100% Republican majority and will undoubtedly be in Republican control.
>You see Africa tier gang warfare as the last city dwellers fight to control whatever they need to survive.
Only in the cities.
Until the Republicans decide to either invade to capture the cities to end the war, or just let Democrats starve to death.
Or I suppose wait until the Democrats surrender because they are tired of starving to death.

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i plan to steal from and rape my neighbors if society breaks down

I’ve got some hot ass (lesbian) neighbors but I think I’ll just let them work for their food.
Because I know they probably only have a days worth in their house.
(They eat out a lot!)

like dayz but with more culture enrichment from all sides

I know a lot of people say this but you will be killed and you will not make it long.
If SHTF yes you may be successful but if it is civil war the militias will be executing people that pray on others and you will have to deal with others looking for looters. I know we all want a rape dungeon and not work for our living but this behavior will lead straight to the grave.

Yes, we know it will be a race war. I'll take those odds though.

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>Every nigger and spic and liberal gets the same idea.
>All major pathways out of city are so congested it takes hours to move just a few feet.
>People start to abandon their vehicles, halting evacuations and effectively trapping in anyone behind them.
>The only way out on foot.
>Idiots who have spent their whole lives within walking distance to a restaurant have never had to forage innawoods
>People dying by the hundreds due to starvation and drinking/eating polluted water and poisonous shit.
>The ones that make into red territory are promptly killed as they would almost automatically be seen as raiders and thieves.

Not to mention most major cities are ignorantly built in harsh terrain, whether it be a desert or miles and miles of dense forest.

Thats not factual because I will be one of those raiders.

less than 1% of the population, especially one entirely dependent on inner-city infrastructure, will not function as they did before the collapse, yes.

Why raid

This isn't minecraft, where you can stick two blocks and a twig together to make an advanced clockwork mechanism. You actually have to make things.

Sounds about right

none of you have any clue what you are talking about.

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>foreign elements come into the country to assist and exploit
>militia's form along with leftover military and police forces
>these groups ideologies form along a ideological spectrum from full communism to mad max to anarco libertarianism.
>some want the country to be rebuilt exactly like it was before
>others want to use this collapse as a tool to rebuild the country into what they believe would be a system that fixes the issues the country faced before, with the major international actors allying themselves with the domestic factions
>If the society that collapsed was taiwan, there would probably be America/NATO, China, Russia involving themselves in the country to rebuild it into something they want (Officially a Liberal Democracy or Officially part of China, or Officially unaligned where it resists Sino or American interests and give Russia a warm water port)
>Expect official attempts by the international actors to resolve the crisis, through official actions such as airstrikes, deploying artillery detachments to support their official actions, and humanitarian responses either through Naval Hospital ships and blockades by Cruisers or unofficial channels by giving aid to certain groups (like the White Helmets, but a Taiwanese version).
>Also expect the use of SOF elements to train and force multiply the domestic factions, who will have an official use and their actions will be leaked to the press strategically
>Also expect the use of frowned upon assets such as Contractors, who will be split between "Instagram Contractors" and "Tom Clancy, glow in the dark spooky" contractors. (typical contractors will be having "unofficial" pics leaked to distract and cover up any possible leaks about the real spooky dudes who are there.

In terms of warfare, it really depends on the physical environment (African Jungle or Asian Jungle or Sand or Mountains) and the geographical environment (Subsaharan Africa, or South East Asia, or Arabia or Mountains). 1/?

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If the collapse happened overnight, we would still have access to modern conveniences. So maybe like China in the 1920's.

Mass looting and then warlords come in and kill each other for control of territory and resources. I could picture it kind of like WW2 except with more genocide and slaves (somebody has to power the crank generators....) And the only way it would be won is when one leader controls the whole area.

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>In terms of warfare, it really depends on the physical environment (African Jungle or Asian Jungle or Sand or Mountains) and the geographical environment (Subsaharan Africa, or South East Asia, or Arabia or Mountains)

This matters because each has very different characteristics such as the population, the infrastructure, the local players, and how you are going to implement SOF and conventional tools. You are going to use paratroopers but you can't rely on Amphib ships if you are doing this on a landlocked African country. You also won't need to worry about a country deploying everything it has because it feels threatened (China won't be as willing to turn into 1950 Korean War if you're in Africa, but it might if you're in Taiwan).

So for the image you posted, OP, image it being a South East Asian City. Looking at conflicts like the Battle of Marawi is a good idea, minus the governments ability to respond, and the common enemy. You're going to have an attempt to limit the amount of effective conventional forces to prevent unnecessary collateral damage which will hurt your ability to make domestic allies. There is going to be perimeters set up by the outside actors for civilians to flee towards. You're gonna have SOF leaving the perimeter to kick doors and gather intelligence for conventional forces to start moving outwards and setting up larger perimeters. CIA spooks are going to be setting up contacts with footsoldiers and high ranking members of the factions, to gather intel on both the domestic groups but also the other major actors in the fight (what are the commie groups doing, who are their allies, what are their allies doing?). Spooky contractors are going to be used to grab/kill members of the "allied" domestic groups (Say US is friends with PTLA, but they want a PTLA who committed crimes to be killed), and also stage false flag attacks (dress the contractors up as pro-Russian allies, and have them commit atrocities). 2/?

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>So for the image you posted, OP, image it being a South East Asian City.
A reference.

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It's always fascinating that the american culture is so interwoven with war, that it appears completely natural when people try to make scenarios for a civil war in an otherwise stable country. You people WANT a war so bad that you wouldn't even give a shit if it was on your front lawn. Damn you must be bored.

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sorry for being so autistic, I thought I would have answered the question by now kek.

For actual warfare, you're gonna see super hairy shit once the war starts being on the frontpage for 2 weeks straight. Politicians will want to stop having calls from their constituents, and will try to solve the problem ASAP, which will make it hairy as fuck.

Expect a shitton of artillery support, carrier based bombing (which will turn the cities into rubble) and assassinations (which will prevent any decent solution because everyone wants to get even for the death of their leader). Fallujah will look like a union strike, because of all the state actors being in the arena, as well as all the people moving into fight for the war (such as when muslim students came to fight the US in Iraq). Wars that occur due political violence have nothing on Wars caused by Social Collapse. Tunnel Rats will be replaced by "Street Sardines", where instead of guys crawling headfirst into hell with only a moonbeam and a sidearm, it will be Armored Crewmen had to head into the downtowns of major cities, where blowing the foundations of a building turned a street into a Colosseum and rebels tossed homemade napalm onto the top hatch of a tank.

Be prepared for HD footage of guys covered in disintegrated concrete blowing walls out of apartment buildings in order to get to the other poor bastards on the other side. Flamethrowers would probably make a comeback from pure necessity, and airborne troops would be retrained in actually fighting immediately after jumping out of a plane. Combat Engineers would become extremely proficient in blowing out apartment building foundations.

Honestly, we haven't really ever experienced a complete societal collapse in the post-wwII international system. Expect car bombings to become the regular in countries who involve themselves. Extreme limits on dual citizenship, and closing of borders, due to the fear of expats fighting.

Not him, but:
>Take what you want, fuck who you want, hunt who you want

Its the price we pay for being a superpower

Better to be prepared instead of being a pussy.

At least in America there's a chance of winning.

Yeah we are some badass mother fuckers! Maybe with luck one day you too can be under our control and our bitch... But until then we will just look down on your weak asses. It is very true though ALOT of us are locked, cocked and ready to fucking rock, so should you ever get bored too we would love to oblige you with an assbeating!

Jesus fuck, that's some top tier sperg.

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>tfw so many people want SHTF but completely overlook the fact theres glowniggers like pic related out there who you'd have zero chance against. yeah they wont have the infrastructure backing which makes them as spooky as possible, but that doesnt downplay the individual

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People tend to fail to see the forest for the trees when it comes to SHTF fantasies. Civil war? Guerilla tactics make everything vulnerable. A match in a california dry-land becomes a massive distraction for the govt. California also gets most of it's water from a single source, the colorado. Disrupting that, becomes a major issue the govt. has to deal with. I'm not so worried about people of the glowing persuasion. A war contained within the most powerful and economically advantaged nation, would really have no clear winner, no matter who's flag was left standing.

As for general chaos, I think most people greatly overestimate their chances of survival. No matter how prepared a person is, Murphy is the most deadly fucker on earth.

People also fail to consider the location and general season after SHTF. 1 heat wave or deep freeze can kill a lot of people in a mass power outage or fuel shortage. Some cities are just not designed well enough to function without power or pump water out/in.

looks neat

In large cities it will be turf wars or first responders/military vs. mob rule. Eventually the cities will hollow out because resources and power die off and the remaining not fighting will disperse outwards to look for resources. After that, im guessing fights will be like the show jericho, where fights will be over crops and against invading remnants of government.

Pretty much, yea. Just because you don't like violence, doesn't mean that everyone in the world is going to respect that. Just like a sword. You can defend the kingdom or hurt it.

Probably the Russians or Chinese will take advantage and the country will unite, then the rebellion will be killed, maybe win.

See communist revolution. Pretty lazy post but nobody speculated this?

i don't think many people would be knowledgeable to know what goes boom besides from c4, tnt, and gunpowder so hardware stores are good go

>muh glowniggers

Somalia is literally a post-apocalyptic society minus the zombies/nuclear wasteland and they managed to kill 19 of America's elite soldiers.

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I think you underestimate what bands of desperate people are capable of and, once they realize killing others for their resources is easier than working/farming/scavenging for it they might decide to become raiders HOWEVER, we've never had the opportunity to actually test what would happen in a situation like this so anything any of us say is all speculation and cannot be told for certain because it's never happened before

>there's no fucking stopping the hordes of hispanics from LA moving east
Until they hit the desert. They’ll start dying in wholesale lots, because machismo will keep them going long after they should have turned back.

>in an event in which society collapses, how will warfare or war, in general, be fought?

The beginning will be sporatic skirmishes. Once people realize that the cops/Army ain't coming, that's when full on attacks start happening.

Ghettos and suburbs will burn. Rural farmlands will destroy their roads and enjoy hot cocoa on Christmas morning while the elites and the lefties are hanged from light posts.

Shit will be really fucked up. Might get a little mad maxey until niggas run out of gas and working vehicles.

Eventually people will run out of enemies and maybe 1 in 10 of us will still be alive to live out the book of Eli.

First guy to get killed, right there.

>What is hurricane Katrina
>What is Yugoslav wars
>What is Venezuela
>What is 1977 New York Black out
>What is LA riots

Not an argument

>katrina
>la riots

we said raiders, not chimpouts. Only blacks were caught looting during Katrina, look it up

Syrian Civil War, or Turner Diaries if China isn't trying to intervene in the US to promote "global security stability" or whatever.

This is very much an argument as is does show what happens when a large amount infrastructure and human capital is immediately removed and people are left to their own devices.

You're not serious if you think that killing people is easier than farming. Running a farm is insanely low-risk and easy work. They'd be everywhere and thieves would be outnumbered by the millions. Inside cities though, the space available for farm land is practically zero which means that stealing and scavenging will be common until those resources dwindle and the only new supply is coming from the new top producers, working people.

This obviously isn't to say that thieves wouldn't exist, but human history has never been dominated by theft so there's no reason to think that it would suddenly become the norm.

Society will never collapse. There will always be some continuation of government on some level.

In any case, people will be too busy dying from hunger and disease to fight.

Except for the ones that are ports like New York, Boston, New Jersey, Washington DC (norfolk), Seattle, Portland, LA, San Francisco, Chicago, Detroit.... Do I need to continue?

Its like you guys never read Thucydides. Unless everyone in the navy just decides 'fuck it im gonna get in my boats and starve the place I live' theres going to be massive endless cargo container shipments of food coming in. Not to mention blue helmets and america's "allies" landing to help the great and good control the racists in the hinterlands

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And how many of them died doing it?

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Hey cunt, have you ever farmed? Ever hunted before? Have you even been outside a fucking city? Farming takes months of work, hunting can take days and requires a level of competence to track down, and butcher an animal not to mention dragging it home, how would that be easier than a gang of 5-10 people sneaking up on a homestead of a family at night and killing them all while they sleep? Killings easy when you're desperate and have the advantage of surprise

It just will

Nice argument

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Willam Dafoe?

silverdoctors.com/gold/gold-news/one-year-in-hellsurviving-a-full-shtf-collapse-in-bosnia/
This
Ignore the shilling for precious metals, get ammo and batteries (lithium) instead.

I should also point out there will be niggers and spics here, so it will be more brutal sooner. Good news its they should be relatively easy to defeat, judging by literally every war where white people fought niggers or spics.

Not enough given that America admitted defeat and pulled out

>Wouldn't give a shit
We would LOVE that shit.

but why?

There are massive fucking apartment buildings and these idiots put a house in a broken fucking train. Why.
Why is it always depicted people living in random shit in a city when there are fucking 841 apartments in a single fucking building. Go fucking live in an actual apartment.

Life is conflict and struggle.
War is a biological imperative.

It would quickly deteriorate to a point where only those who can feed an army would field one.

Sounds rather social Darwinistic.

It's been that way since the beginning

That’s been debunked. Selco may have been a Bosnian Muslim, he may even have been there during the ethnic cleansing. However, there are provable falsehoods in his story. It’s almost like he made a bunch of shit up so people would flock to his shtf school to learn his ways.

I attended a Go Ruch survival class recently. Besides the amazing amount of crap we were able to forage from, making the hobo stove consisted of about an hour of the 7 hour class and was retarded. There are way better E&E topics.

With your mom's shit-encrusted anus.

I wouldn't have to worry because Texas would just collectively decide to take the opportunity to revive the Republic rather than all go to shit. Even if it goes to shit the Republican Army will restore order quickly, backed by former State and National Guard stockpiles, and massive volunteer formations.

You probably wouldnt see the people who kill you. It would be the people who are really good at long range drills and shit just running train on panicked fuckers in the woods and cities

It'll be drones, missile strikes and IEDs, often a combination or hybrid of each. Literal drone IEDs for example.

It’s not that I want a civil war, it’s that I’d prefer one now rather than the gradual erosion of our rights

Then we invade the south

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*We police action the south
We're not invading, we're keeping the peace :^)

As an Arkansas I support our annexation into the greater Texan Republic. As long as we exterminate non-whites, bring back Christianity, criminalize homosexuality, make it where woman cannot vote, and have any guns we want.

>You will live to see the Second Republic

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They'll starve before they can do anything significant.

That and I would like to see them cross the sierra mountains especially when all of those passes are littered with cars.

If it happens during wintertime, you will have a re-enactment of the donner party 10-20 times over in different places.

What happens if they go there in summer?

This is the problem with you kids. Not having paperbacks for unlimited jacks

Because it's secluded and isn't easily available. You can't see lights on and people with weapons travelling back and forth when you're underground. Duh

Find more farmers and gatherers to start a community, form a militia, and have constant lookouts to protect it.

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