How was this rifle basically in development for two decades, went through various trials...

>2) Caliber changed

Fortunately they did because the 4.85 x 49mm round was burning out barrels much too quickly.

Development timeframes exceeded Army career terms. Each new upcoming leadership effectively hit reset on the clock as they brought themselves up to speed with the program. Each also added a new layer of mostly bad complexity slowing things further. tl;dr design by committee.

I'm not saying the A2 is bad. I'm asking why it took 40 years to get to the A2

Because a bunch of Yanks across the pond had an autistic fit about Real Fuckin NATO and then changed their minds a couple decades later. Shame we never got to see .280 British in action.

Brap,brap,brap,click.

>So yes, we will defend it vigorously, because in it's current iteration it is a decent service weapon
Literally the worst service rifle of any first world nation. Name a single first world country with a worse service weapon.

It weighs way too fucking much for a fucking 223, it is 100% NOT ambidextrous, it has shit accuracy compared to an AR because it's a non-free float piston design, it has horrendous controls and ergonomics. There is a reason your country straight up has not produced in any more for something like 20 years now. There is a reason none of your special forces use it.

> Literally the worst service rifle of any first world nation. Name a single first world country with a worse service weapon.
You're more than entitled to your opinion. Does the fact that theres something better out there magically stop it performing it's function? Also what is the FAMAS and G36.

> It weighs way too fucking much for a fucking 223
I've never had a problem with the weight, then again I'm not a fatbody.
> it is 100% NOT ambidextrous
Mutants get taught to shoot properly and have no issues whatsoever.
> it has shit accuracy compared to an AR
And yet even raw recruits can reliably hit targets out to 300 metres, as is required.
> it has horrendous controls and ergonomics
Practice makes perfect regardless of what weapon system you use. I'd be faster with an SA80 than with an AK at any drill you'd care to mention.
> there is a reason your country straight up has not produced in any more
Yeah, it's cus we have plenty of them kicking around to suit our current needs.
> There is a reason none of your special forces use it.
Except they do when working with regular green army units. They use the C8 Diemarco for deniability, but also for ease of logistics as they often work alongside other NATO SF who mostly use AR variants.

You sound like the kind of person who thinks just because a brand new $3000 AR came out on the market with all the bells and whistles the one for $1000 suddenly stops working. We haven't replaced it because regardless of your crying and whining, it does the job very well.

>Shame we never got to see .280 British in action.
Technically did in Venezuela with I think the Liviano version of the cartridge or something in the FALs

Also .280 brit was crap

Found the British Government poster

Incredibly over hyped meme round

Because us brits are a prideful as fuck bunch who dont want to admit when we've screwed something up.

We juat keep working on it until we've got it right (or at least semi-working).

>still has to hire HK to fix his shit service rifle to the new L85A3 standard in anno domini 2018/2019
Never change, Nigel.
>under (British owned) HK
>(British owned)
Yep, it's definitely a pride thing.

STOPPAGE, CHANGING MAG!

>pic unrelated btw

>I've never had a problem with the weight, then again I'm not a fatbody.
If you're good with an eleven pound intermediate rifle, you're better with a seven pound one. This is inarguable.
>Mutants get taught to shoot properly and have no issues whatsoever.
It makes it impossible to use left-handed cover without risking your teeth. Good job, now you have to expose almost your entire body before you can bring your muzzle to bear whenever you need to take a right corner.
>And yet even raw recruits can reliably hit targets out to 300 metres, as is required.
I'll give you that one. They tend to hover at around 1 MOA. In battlefield conditions a 1 or 2 MOA advantage will nearly never matter. Now adding to that, the accuracy margin between the L85A2 and other service rifles gets blurred by use of 2-3 MOA ammo.
>Practice makes perfect regardless of what weapon system you use. I'd be faster with an SA80 than with an AK at any drill you'd care to mention.
Again, true, but see point number one. Good ergonomics had already been developed by the time the SA80 and later iterations were in development. Failing to include them in the design is a mistake. If you had two soldiers of equal skill, with one trained for an AR and one for a L85A2, then you timed their use of the fire-select there would be a pretty noticeable difference. One requires gross motor manipulation and fine motor manipulation, the other only requires fine motor manipulation. Further magazine changes will be slower due to the extra manipulation required. An AR can drop the mag and put in a new one with half the movements that the L85A2 needs.
>Yeah, it's cus we have plenty of them kicking around to suit our current needs.
Valid enough point. No bureaucrat wants to sign off on a new stack of shooty-bang-sticks if they have working ones still on hand. We still have M16s from the same era floating around places.
>Except they do when working with regular green army units.
Don't know enough to comment.

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The same reason why Ireland has never been able to produce their own legit modern weapons, ever. And a piece of sewer pipe with a light switch doesn't count.

>the A2 a very reliable, rugged and accurate rifle
Can you shoot it left-handed without hot brass hitting your face yet, or do bongs still force 10% of their grunts to shoot like shit?

>The same reason why Ireland has never been able to produce their own legit modern weapons, ever.
Because theres no application for it? Their procurements were dictated by the UK until the 90s and nowadays they have like 2000 combat arms in total, theres not enough market to support buying locally. The brits on the other hand have no excuse.

>What is the G36
The second most successful and prolific design out of the SCHV rifle class licensed produced in 2 EU countries and Saudi Arabia, having massive ongoing orders from an active factory. What does that have to do with the shit bong rifle other than proving you have no experience with the G36 outside of online articles?

do you mean made or designed?

>"melts"

> a lighter rifle is better
Undoubtably, but obviously you get accustomed to whatever your service weapon is. First time I shot an AR the recoil was much more noticeable and it felt front heavy. Obviously a US soldier would pick up an L85 and it would feel awkward because he wasn't accustomed to it.
> left handed shooting
You can do left handed point shooting with it, but obviously can't get a cheek weld if you value your teeth. However, seeing as I've never heard of a foreign army regularly practicing off hand shooting (please do correct me if I'm wrong), I would rather expose a bit more of myself and be able to make comfortable and accurate shots, thus being exposed for less time, than shoot off hand and have less chance of reliably hitting the target. That's just me though.
> ergonomics
If you're talking about doing gucci SF drills then sure, an ARs ergonomics are more conducive to that. However in real life and real combat, you aren't just dropping mags, you take the mag off, sling it in a dump pouch and grab another one. If the difference between you living or dying is the .5 of a second longer it takes you to mag change then you're already up shit creek without a paddle and something is seriously wrong, and that's why we practice transfer drills, i.e transferring from rifle to pistol when your rifle runs dry in close quarters combat.

In terms of the change lever, literally the only time I've ever put my weapon on automatic was a couple of times at the range and a few times in training acting as a section gunner. As far as I can remember I've never used automatic on either foreign exercises or operations. I know that's not a sound argument for it being a bit slower, but that's my experience.

> force recruits to shoot like shit

Seeing as the vast majority of recruits have never shot a rifle before it makes little to no difference, and they all have to pass the same tests and standards, which they do with little issue. So I wouldn't call that 'shooting like shit'.

the hot brass is the least of your concerns
the bolt handle in your jaw is a more pressing issue

>Talking shit
Not him but the G36 affair was literally corruption and the women responsible for it is under investigation.

Actual Bong Infantry Soldier here

I've fired and patrolled with both the SA80A2 and the C7(leaf M16)

The SA80A2 is heavier, however the weight is evenly balanced, so it's much more comfortable to patrol with for extended periods of time

The magazine release catch is contained within a metal guard to stop it accidentally releasing the magazine if you catch it or push it on something, it also requires more pressure to push, I found when I had the C7 slung around my back, it would constantly drop a mag, very annoying.

Stoppages: Have never had a stoppage that wasn't my fault with an SA80
Found that the C7 would get a stoppage every 3 to 4 mags, also the cocking handle is finicky and the fact that you can't hold the bolt back without taking your hand off the pistol grip is annoying

I complained about this rifle literally my entire career until I actually used other countries service rifles, and believe me I would take an SA80 over most

Unfortunately, Jow Forums has a preconceived notion that because the A1 was shit(which it was) that the A2 is also shit, however I can guarantee that 99.9% of those people have never picked one up in their lives let alone fired it

end dit

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> C7 is finicky and can't hold the bolt back one handed

Had the exact same issue when having a go on a C8, one of the advantages of the SA80 is you can do all your drills left handed. Also not sure if it's the same on the C7 but you can't click it into safe unless the weapon has been cocked, which I found quite disconcerting.

Exactly what I mean. Brits still have Celtic ancestry. And a lot of them are as stupid as a box of rocks. Especially after the 1960's when Britain became nu-Britain, and everyone was obsessed with muh feeluns. This genetic garbage took off like wildfire after that.

Pic related

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FUCK THE SUSAT

how hasn't anyone at BW strangled Ursula yet?

Only vaguely on topic, but I wish the L85 never lost the lines of the 4.85mm prototypes. That was such a cool-looking gun.

That actually makes a lot of sense for a country of noguns. Still going to have a problem w/ left dominant eye folks.

The rifle in your picture was very good, it was vastly superior to the M14 and had it not been for the US it would have become the Standard NATO service rifle over the FAL - which the Americans also sperged out over and kept using their inferior M14.

Youre thinking of the EM-2.

The only difference is the calibre, they are basically the same gun.

>You'll never make a Brit swallow his pride. No way, no how.

NATO is moving towards intermediate calibres. It's almost as if 60 years ago we knew the right way to go and people ignored us for their own interests. 7.62 NATO was a dead end, 5.56 is going in the trash. if only we had all adopted .280

I used it too. It was a pile of shit. Our buttfuck government didnt let hk go all the way and fix it from being an unergonomic piece of fuck cuz they wanted to save a shilling. You cunts who defend it have no frame of reference of what a good rifle is. Its heavy as fuck for a pea shooter, mag changes are slow, controls are shit, and cleaning it is a cunt.
Fuck the l85 in any variant. Sell them and buy m4s if you want 5.56. The l85 is accurate, I'll give it that but it sucks cock at everything else compared to every other relevent service rifle

>I used it too

Doubt.

You talk like a typical Jow Forums incel who's been diagnosed with brain rot.

All "right wingers" get kicked out pretty fast and Germany in general is very corrupt.

>britbongs make dogdick shit looking bullpup
>Jow Forums autism activate

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Try harder

Oh u got me cunt some fag on a gun board called me a fucking Incel in 2018, calling me a paki cuck or somethin would have atleast made me giggle. You were probably in some nigger unit that never got any fun toys, I actually feel bad for you. And hell yeah dude pol trump nazi shit fuck ass whooooo

> TFW People don't know about NSAF.
> TFW BAE, Bought out H&K, H&K & BAE formed NSAF to produce the upgrades and maintenance.
> TFW you take into account
> TFW H&K GmbH is just a patent company and R&D company and most of the military contract manufacturing is done in France and the UK...
FN is a similar setup these days, all of FNs machine guns are also manufactured in the UK...

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looks like being called an incel and an (obvious) liar makes you mad. Your post has no factual value.

Sounds good, yeah I'm reelin with rage man when did you serve big dick

I'm just hopped up on tea and amphetamines n cant sleep why the fuck else would I be on fuckchan

Casual reminder that L85A2 has a vastly better MTBF than any DI AR.

Also combat ranges in Afghanistan were outside the range of a short barred weapon like M4.

I've not, and i don't pretend to. The fact that your posts are littered with Americanisms and spellings stands out a mile to anyone who's actually from the UK.

Walter Mitty

>can't sleep

It's 1730, you need to get your backstory straight before trying to LARP.

Ok you clearly have more experience with the rifle than me. Keep the insults rollin cuz that's all u can do

I'm not in bong land fuckface and it's a

Seeing as you've never shot it and I have, I'm pretty sure i do have more experience than you.

As for insults, you may want to re-read your posts, it's a bit late to pretend to be taking the high road.

Yes then we'd have a caliber that you can't carry enough ammo for, doesn't penetrate armor well because of muh low velocity, and uses action lengths that are the same as the .308

.280 bros belong in the trash along with their garbage round.

>doesn't penetrate armor well because of muh low velocity

5.56 doesn't do that either. it doesn't even penetrate foliage with enough force left to kill. reliably.

> Low velocity
> .280
Wrong intermediate, think more along the lines of .243

I mostly used the lmt l129 but I had a good deal of time on it. How is any criticism of the rifle incorrect. I said its accurate and realible but doing everything else, cleaning, shooting, carring, mag changes is I'll conceived. Other than incel which is pretty generic you had nice insults I ment it pussy

Also when did you get your hands on it you never fought for UK the other couple shit holes that use it

>MV is less than 2600
>.243

Stop lying on the internet to try and look cool.

4.85×49mm was slated to replace 556...

>opinion is fact...

This lmao. It's a fuckhuge cartridge for the performance. Itd be badass if the round was a shorty 6.5G that we could have had before 7.62N but it isn't.

.280 Bongistan is a ForgottenComminist meme that needs to stay on (((youtube))).

I'm left eye dominant and have no trouble shooting even out to 800+ metres, just a matter of practice really.

I seriously doubt you did, since they don't let 12 year olds join the forces.

> I mostly used the LMT
Just picked it out of the armoury did you

he can't even get the name right, don't waste time on him.

I just can't help giving Walt's enough rope to hang themselves with. Just the other week I was in a pub and some geezer was trying to convince me he was in the Royal Armoured Corps, his rank was Royal Armoured Corps, and he was deployed to 'Canadia' and 'Afghanland' on combat operations. And his COs name was Jeff, no last name. Had trouble keeping a straight face.

Can confirm, have also fired the L85A1 and A2. There were some issues with the A1 (it was easy to accidentally hit the mag release, and maybe every 1 in 500 rounds wound ping backwards and go down your collar - very annoying).

The A2 addressed this completely, the magazine release was redesigned and the bolt deflector was modified to make the ejection pattern more consistent.

The good things about the rifle are its exception accuracy, great sights, easy maintenance, one of the best slings ever made for a rifle and reliability in harsh enviornments.

The bad things are that it can only be fired right handed (in the British army everyone learns to fire right handed anyway) and it is slightly heavy compared to more modern bullpups (although that's because they are made out of fisher-price plastic crap).

Brits tried to make a rifle, and they tried to make it a bullpup.

i met some homeless guy outside a bar who tried to convince me he was in the falklands as the captain of a ship but he was 'fired' by margaret thatcher for putting his men's lives first. I wish I could remember the name of the ship he said he worked on but it was hilarious, was something like a pub name "HMS Prancing Unicorn" or some garbage lmao

>Seeing as the vast majority of recruits have never shot a rifle before it makes little to no difference
You have no idea what you are talking about. Hand dominance is not something that can be trained away and you will never be nearly as good with your non-dominant hand as you would be with your dominant one. You can be competent, sure, anyone should be able to shoot with both hands, but it's an unnecessary handicap that shouldn't exist. There's also the issue of not being able to switch depending on which side your cover is on. Service rifle that flat out cannot be used left-handed in [Current Year] is just embarassing.

>Hand dominance is not something that can be trained away

My gran is left handed, but in school in the 30's they were all taught to write with their right hand. She now writes with her right hand better than the left despite usual using her left hand for other tasks.

If you can learn to write you can sure as shit some something basic like shoot a rifle.

I was visiting on leave and a barely 18 year old threatened to knife me saying he was British army... SAS... All over me sitting in the way of his football in a pub. I told him to bring it

I was based at ATR Winchester training recruits a couple months later guess who's there?

mr SAS, he doesn't recognise me, so i reminded him in front of his everyone...

Didn't last one week, he was joining AGC of all things...

Honestly it doesn't matter, only 50% of all individual weapons in the section are actually 85IWs, the other 50% are LMGs or sharpshooter weapons. My best mate was a lefty, he never really complained because he would have been dicked with the LMG before the sharpshooter came out.

In fact if you train your entire army to shoot right handed then issue the lefties with ambi weapons then they're probably better doing a switch.

The whole point is kind of moot because the newer LDS sights aux red dot is high enough to shoot ambi at close range... and lets be honest if you NEED to shoot left handed then you're probably close enough to use a LLM or go off muscle memory...

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Not saying you can't, just saying its a lot less intuitive to shoot wrong handed w/ the opposite eye dominant.

Congratu-fucking-lations, you posted a pasta.

its a pride thing

like defending the mini 14, m14, BAR, m16a2, SKS and so on

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Isn't the whole 80 being a jammo-matic a pasta bait?

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a gun that literally gives the famas a run for its money

the SA80 is total trash

the only people who think it’s good are bongs whose only frame of reference is oh yeah NOTHING because they have no guns

because it started off like this, and a pretty dream can allow an ugly reality to survive longer than it would on its own.

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No, it's actually a piece of shit. Do you honestly think a committee of noguns britcuck bureaucrats could design a decent rifle?

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the SA80 is god tier

the only people who think it’s bad are never served whose only frame of reference is oh yeah NOTHING because they're pussies...

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BTFO

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If you think this clunky abomination is god tier then you seriously need your eyes checked.

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> implying

Attached: ....jpg (600x800, 111K)

>your pic
Oh look, it's the style of rifle that elite British operators use instead of their retarded indigenous design.

ever heard of plausible deniability?

Why have soldiers that are identified by a rifle when you can have "PMCs"?

The only british military unit that uses the M4 (or L119) because of practicality are royal marine boarders because they want to use special ammunition.

Besides the regular british army was using ARs before they were even considered for US military adoption