Why does the Ghost Gunner only make lowers? What stops you from making a complete firearm with it?

But why? It could make guns and show the folly of gun control worldwide, and it chooses to skirt one aspect of US firearms regulation?
Yeah, until the ATF feels like regulating the pressure-bearing parts.

Any cnc milling machines would work, they just provide a cheap model but if you find something else you can make whatever steel parts you want.

cody addressed this on a podcast (don't remember the details), iirc the tech isn't there (for non-industrial users) and isn't going to be there in the forseeable future

Probably doesn't have the power or the rigidity to do a decent job of milling steel, if it can do it at all. Also, there's a lot more to making steel parts, you also have to heat treat them, finish them properly, etc., and once you're getting into doing all that you may as well look into more serious machining equipment.

Also, 80% lowers are readily available and were before the Ghost Gunner hit the market, 80% uppers etc. aren't.

Have the link?
>treating them
Can it be improvised? The Luty SMG build manual has a short guide on how to harden them.

>Also, 80% lowers are readily available and were before the Ghost Gunner hit the market, 80% uppers etc. aren't.
What's the difference between making something out of a block of steel and out of a partially machined block of steel?

>Why does the Ghost Gunner only make lowers?
Well first off no 1 tool can make a whole gun, and also because it's a overrated mini router and trying to mill steel would be exceeding it's design specs. I don't know why people don't just buy a 2k mill and learn to use it. That said, a lot of aluminum can be used for guns, you can buy most other things. If you know what you're doing, and can source important pressure bearing parts like barrel and bolt, the ghost gunner can absolutely make a complete gun.

>Can it be improvised?
Sure you can improvise, but improvising is up to individual skills. You can make a heat treating oven at home pretty easily, but can it heat treat the specific steel you're working with? Well depends on you. It's hard to heat treat massy things that need to be through hardened like bolts.
>What's the difference between making something out of a block of steel and out of a partially machined block of steel?
are you serious? Spindle time, and wear on the machine and tooling. Also you may not have the tools to do it, like you have to broach an AR magwell, can't do that on a mini router.

>isn't going to be there in the forseeable future
wheres fucking china when you need some stolen IP

not worth the money to make a printer that both powerful to mill steel and precise enough to make a barrel worth a damn

Barrel can be made in two parts, JB-welded, and then put inside another metal tube. Not optimal but it works.

>I don't know why people don't just buy a 2k mill and learn to use it.
For the same reason why people buy miracle diet pills instead of eating less and hitting the gym: people know the real route takes effort, so they are always searching for a magic bullet that requires none.

That doesn't invalidate either of the points you replied to. And if you're ok with "not optimal but it works" then why not just make pipe shotguns? cheaper, faster, safer than fooling around with meme machines.

Because it would be much better than one. A machine that pops out a whole gun > a machine that drills some hole in a receiver blank.
>pipe shotguns
It would be much better than that.

>A machine that pops out a whole gun > a machine that drills some hole in a receiver blank.
I'm agreeing with you bro. My point is that the average person doesn't want to put forth the effort required to learn to use manual machinery. They want to download and click a button, just like they do with games, music, movies online.

But isn't that what the Ghost Gunner is for? What parts would you be unable to make without additional tools?

>But isn't that what the Ghost Gunner is for?
Theoretically, yeah.

>>what parts would you be unable to make
Barrels, springs, uppers, 100% lowers, and every other small part in between. Ghost Gunner only *finishes* 80% lowers.

Buy a bridgeport and you can make guns from scratch, except for barrels. Buy a lathe and now you can make barrels too.

>Barrels, springs, uppers, 100% lowers, and every other small part in between. Ghost Gunner only *finishes* 80% lowers.

Yeah, but with the proper software. What are the hardware limitations?

>Buy a bridgeport and you can make guns from scratch, except for barrels. Buy a lathe and now you can make barrels too.
You could make rifled barrels if you make them in two parts. I'm not even sure you need to JB-weld them. Then you put it inside a regular metal pipe. Are you saying this would have too low structural integrity to be feasible?
That takes about 10 seconds to assemble and requires no tools at all. Even Tyrone in the hood could do it.

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>What are the hardware limitations?
Huge. The ghost gunner is lightweight, has small spindle bearings, and very little power. Even a modest but real "milling machine" will run circles around it.

>>Are you saying this would have too low structural integrity to be feasible?
Yes. among other things. I think the chance of having the two haves perfectly align when you assemble this multi-part barrel is near zero. I think you're making more work for yourself to produce an inaccurate and unreliable part. I think it makes a lot more sense to just use a smoothbore instead. And I think it's a lot more difficult than you picture it being. I have nearly 30 years experience in a machine shop: I'd find it much easier to rig up my own ghetto hook-style rifling setup on a lathe than I would find it to rifle two haves and then stick them together. How were you planning on cutting the rifling in those two haves? 3D mill each groove then hope your two halves line up? If so, that's laughable. If not, please explain so I am not putting words in your mouth. Right now I own more than 2 million dollars worth of machinery and even with that I would dread the job of making two halves of a rifled barrel.

Line up in which direction? Vertically or horizontally?
I'm thinking you would either make it like this and push it as far as it goes. JB-weld would come in handy just to make sure it doesn't slip.

If you're putting it inside of a tube, what would be the mode of failure?

>How were you planning on cutting the rifling in those two haves? 3D mill each groove then hope your two halves line up? If so, that's laughable. If not, please explain so I am not putting words in your mouth.
No, that's exactly what I mean. Why is it laughable?

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>Line up in which direction? Vertically or horizontally?
Both.

>>If you're putting it inside of a tube, what would be the mode of failure?
I'm not worried about it bursting. I'm worried about it not giving you any benefits of rifling to offset the massive amount of work it is to create it.

>>No, that's exactly what I mean. Why is it laughable?
For starters, it's very hard to make the parts to the precise dimensions you intend, especially long narrow parts like that. When you machine out the metal to make the "bore" of the barrel you have now created internal stresses in the rest of the part. When you remove it from the vise or whatever fixture you held it in, the part will now bend. Fighting this is horrible, even for professionals. Also, 3D milling will not produce the proper shape at the bottom of the rifling. It will only be an approximation. So when you're all said and done you will have two parts that kinda-sorta but don't quite line up, with rifling that doesn't really have the correct shape. there will be misalignment between the two haves, and the bore will be rough. that seems silly when the whole point or rifling is to create a more accurate barrel.

Hook rifling would be much much easier than trying to build a barrel in two haves, and would produce a superior finished product. That said, what's the point of rifling a weapon like this anyway? Smoothbore is more than good enough for SHTF defense or hunting needs.

>I'm not worried about it bursting. I'm worried about it not giving you any benefits of rifling to offset the massive amount of work it is to create it.
Is it, though? If you have a CNC machine and a block of metal, the only effort is in the design. The actual manufacturing is just pushing a button and waiting, then putting them together.
Am I missing something?
>When you machine out the metal to make the "bore" of the barrel you have now created internal stresses in the rest of the part. When you remove it from the vise or whatever fixture you held it in, the part will now bend. Fighting this is horrible, even for professionals.
If you make it square on the outside and then round the corners after assembly, how much pressure does it have to be under in the vise?
>3D milling will not produce the proper shape at the bottom of the rifling. It will only be an approximation.
What about polygonal rifling? Would that be easier to manufacture?

Also, what if you assemble them while both are being held under pressure and then release them? What about cutting slits on the outside so that you can insert dowels (?) with a hammer and force them together?

>Hook rifling would be much much easier than trying to build a barrel in two haves, and would produce a superior finished product.
The issue is that now you need a whole new machine. If you'd make something like the ghost gunner but for complete assembly, you would have to make the whole gun in it, or otherwise it'd be pointless.

>That said, what's the point of rifling a weapon like this anyway? Smoothbore is more than good enough for SHTF defense or hunting needs.
Are you saying that the other parts would be of too poor quality to be able to produce the requisite accuracy anyway?

>you do this for a living, and I know nothing about it, but let me tell you just how simple it is!
>Am I missing something?
Yes. Yes you are.

>Am I missing something?
Yes. You misunderstand machining entirely.

>>The actual manufacturing is just pushing a button and waiting, then putting them together.
That is naivety talking. In reality it is far far far more complex than that.

>>If you make it square on the outside and then round the corners after assembly
How do you plan on holding the part while you round the corners? Remember, you have to do this precisely.

>>how much pressure does it have to be under in the vise?
The issue I was talking about had nothing to do with pressure in a vise, though that is its own problem. Let's say you take a solid steel bar. Using magic, you teleport a piece out of the bar so now you have a hollow tube. The bar will now twist and bend on its own, due to internal stresses in the metal itself. That kind of thing is a problem that machinists face every day in the real world.

>>Are you saying that the other parts would be of too poor quality to be able to produce the requisite accuracy anyway?
I'm saying the barrel would be.

If you take 0.001 cuts probably but it would 48 hours and the motors would overheat.

>I don't know why people don't just buy a 2k mill and learn to use it.
There aren't many good 2k mills left. You're pretty much limited to chinkshit these days, especially if you can't get your house wired for 3 phase. Otherwise a 2k Bridgeport clone is liable to end up being more like 5-6k by the time you've got a phase converter, tooling, have done necessary repairs, etc., and it may end up being shitty anyway. That's all assuming anons have somewhere to put a mill too, which probably isn't the case for most of us.

Shop around industrial auctions and you can easily find a good mill for $2k.

Of course that doesn't solve the space problem or the hassle of moving it, but finding the machine isn't hard. Also, most small mills are single phase.

>That is naivety talking. In reality it is far far far more complex than that.
What more steps? Isn't that essentially how the Ghost Gunner works?
>How do you plan on holding the part while you round the corners? Remember, you have to do this precisely.
A vise, but with low pressure applied. I don't see why it needs to be done precisely. Is it an issue if the barrel's weight is slightly uneven?
>The issue I was talking about had nothing to do with pressure in a vise, though that is its own problem. Let's say you take a solid steel bar. Using magic, you teleport a piece out of the bar so now you have a hollow tube. The bar will now twist and bend on its own, due to internal stresses in the metal itself. That kind of thing is a problem that machinists face every day in the real world.
Oh, I see. That makes perfect sense. What about manufacturing it in even smaller increments and combining them? Does the warping scale with part size or is it constant and unpredictable?

Make it 96 hours to let the motors cool down. So what? You've still made a gun. It takes a week, but you don't have to watch it all the time.

I'm a young cnc lathe set up guy. How do they get an id threading tool in to the barrel? Gun drill and have some sort of cutting tool go in the length of the barrel and then touch off and cut going +z? How do they check the rifling? Cut it in half?

>What more steps?
There are lots of complexities which the operator (you) need to know and account for: internal stresses in your raw material. Variability in your raw material's hardness. Needing to change your feeds and speeds to compensate for the weaknesses that are ever-increasing as you cut more and more material from your part. Concerns about swarf clearance otherwise your cutters load up and break. Concerns about making sure your coolant is getting to the cutting area. Concerns about how the machine's accuracy changes as it warms up from use. Concerns about vibration that comes and goes depending on the shape of the part, its mass, and which cutter is being used and at what RPM. Even holding the parts can be tricky: the vise jaws get in the way of machining, and many parts are difficult to hold without the vise distorting them. And a lot more.

>>Isn't that essentially how the Ghost Gunner works?
The ghost is very lightly built. It can therefore only do a very limited number of jobs. It's made to drill holes in an 80% receiver that's made of thin aluminum. It's absurd to suggest that transfers over to doing full 3D machining in steel.

>>A vise,
Where will your vise jaws physically fit? You need access to the entire curved part in order to machine it. Where does the vise hold without getting in the way of your cutter?

>>but with low pressure applied.
Milling a piece of steel can apply hundreds of pounds of force on a part. Moreso if you are using a curved cutter to get a round corner, like pic related. Your setup requires extreme stiffness, "light pressure" ain't going to cut it.

>Is it an issue if the barrel's weight is slightly uneven?
The weight? No. It's the shape that matters, and yes, that's highly important.

>>Warping
It's totally unpredictable.

>> What about manufacturing it in even smaller increments and combining them?
That can be done. It's a huge pain in the ass though.

Oh honey, no. Go buy yourself a minimill and come back in a few months. CNC mills are not magic molding machines, they have lots of practical and geometric pronlems. Even if you had a 4-axis machine, ideal workholding and setup, and an experienced operator, you still wouldnt be able to get anywhere near a modern barrel.

Rifling isn't done with a threading tool. It's a solid bar that goes down the barrel with a small "hook" on the end for lack of a better term. If you are familar with lathes then the "hook" resembles a carbide parting tool insert. This is stuck down the barrel, it has a bearing to allow swiveling on the opposite end, and it's pulled straight out. A cam and a track force it to rotate to give the "twist" while the rod is pulled out. That cuts a shallow groove. Repeat it a bunch of times and you have cut rifling.

youtube.com/watch?v=ou8nNBn5Cbs
should give you an idea. You can do this on a manual lathe--not with the spindle running, but rather using the lathe and the carriage to pull your cutting bar in and out.

I would recommend the mini mill for anything but a barrel. I may not understand how to cut the rifling but 16 inches out of a spindle with no tailstock is gonna taper so fucking bad, you can't even program a counter taper for something that huge even if it is a predictable taper. But the mini mill is a great machine. If you get servos and stepper motors you can convert it for like 500$ to cnc and there's a lot of great support out there for that. A cnc mini mill could make a lower from scratch in quite a few operations and a couple of fixtures you'd also have to make on the mill.

>There are lots of complexities which the operator (you) need to know and account for: internal stresses in your raw material. Variability in your raw material's hardness. Needing to change your feeds and speeds to compensate for the weaknesses that are ever-increasing as you cut more and more material from your part. Concerns about swarf clearance otherwise your cutters load up and break. Concerns about making sure your coolant is getting to the cutting area. Concerns about how the machine's accuracy changes as it warms up from use. Concerns about vibration that comes and goes depending on the shape of the part, its mass, and which cutter is being used and at what RPM. Even holding the parts can be tricky: the vise jaws get in the way of machining, and many parts are difficult to hold without the vise distorting them. And a lot more.
If the goal is to package a machine like the Ghost Gunner but for the complete manufacture of firearms, can't most of this be controlled for? For instance, the effects of heat can be analyzed and compensated for, subject to consistency in machine quality.
>Where will your vise jaws physically fit? You need access to the entire curved part in order to machine it. Where does the vise hold without getting in the way of your cutter?
Around the side of the barrel, at the bottom. Wouldn't an octagonal barrel suffice?
>Moreso if you are using a curved cutter to get a round corner, like pic related.
Why do you need a curved cutter? Can't you lower it as you get closer to the side?
>you still wouldnt be able to get anywhere near a modern barrel
How close could you get? Appreciably better than using metal pipe from home depot? Appreciably better than electrochemical rifling you made with a 3d printer, a laptop charger, and salt water?

Thanks I always wondered about that. I figured whatever it was had to cut on the way out. Man if only I didn't live in a ny apartment, my buddy offered me a bunch of conventional machines cause he's going out of business.

>Make it 96 hours to let the motors cool down. So what?
It doesn't even work.

Here's what happens: the cutter gets dull very quickly, then it breaks, usually ruining your part in the process. Then you start over.

Taking very light cuts makes sense at first, but the problem is that most steels work-harden when you cut them. Each little chip of metal that gets cut off hardens during the cutting process, as does the surface of the part. Thus you must be cutting chips of a minimum thickness so you are cutting under this hard layer rather than attempting to cut through it. If you don't do that in many materials your cutter and parts failures will be frequent. You can get away with it in some materials, but it's certainly an issue.

>>this .22 is just a smaller version of a big artillery shell, right? So Instead of shooting that tank with 150mm I'll just shoot a few thousand .22's at it. That'll stop it, right?

>Servos OR stepper motors*

>If the goal is to package a machine like the Ghost Gunner but for the complete manufacture of firearms, can't most of this be controlled for?
Most of the variation lies in the material.
If you are limiting your machine to making only one (or a handful of) programs then you can try to account for things like coolant, the machine warming up, and vibration, but all of those are affected by outside variables too. We don't know what environment people will be working in, what materials they have, or how solid the table they have placed their machine upon is? (yes, that sounds dumb but it's hugely important).

>>Around the side of the barrel, at the bottom.
what's to stop your barrel from popping out the top of the jaws as they are closed together?

>>Wouldn't an octagonal barrel suffice?
I thought you wanted to press your 2-pc barrel halves down inside a pipe? How do you plan on getting a pipe with an octagonal hole in the center?

>>How close could you get?
Nowhere near as good as buying a piece of high-pressure stainless tubing

He could at M01s and change the tool mid program but he'd have to redo his height. Probably could take a large finishing pass with the fresh tool and get a....less than decent finish

I ran out of room there.

Let's back up for a sec. What precisely is the problem which you think that the "ghost gunner" solves? My assertion is that whatever your motivation might be, there exists a better solution for it than the ghost gunner.

>I want a really nice gun
Then buy one, or build one from parts.

>But I don't want the man to know
Then do the above, but get your receiver private-party

>That's not an option for some reason
or
>Muh SHTF emergency
Pipe shotgun

>building/designing is fun, it's all about the journey not the practicality
Mah niggah. Acquire manual mill and lathe. Start there.

>No, it's all about SHALL
distribute plans for pipe shotguns and other improvised weapons that require no computer, no expensive machines to build, etc.

Sure, he can try and fight it. But the point is why bother? What is the motivation to solve this non-extant problem in the first place?

The Ghost Gunner is a proof of concept which is actually practical.
3d Printing is the future and within 20 years we'll be able to "print" at the molecular level in an industrial setting (eg, as good as forging, and in any combination of materials and alloys).

What the Ghost Gunner does is lets you make *professional grade guns in a way that gets around red tape completely. Hence the "ghost" part.
There's no regulation on buying the Uppers for an AR-15 platform, technically you could even buy one of those single shot .50 caliber uppers, its irrelevant.
> I think you can get a .22LR upper for an AR for 170 bucks.
> as usual the other bits on an AR are where it gets pricey... stock... grip... mags...
You could technically sell guns this way by giving the Lower away for free (sales would require red tape and license and all sorts of shit), and then sell someone the Upper plus an added fee for putting it together for them.

Altogether you could be making people 350 dollar rifles and selling it for 500 and having it be completely off the books without serials or anything like that. Nobody could sell it 3rd hand but then again you dont want to be selling an AR-15 anyway (duh).
On taxes you could label it as being self employed as a "3d consultant".

I wonder how many folks are doing this right now producing guns off the books to provide a defense against tyranny.

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>We don't know what environment people will be working in, what materials they have, or how solid the table they have placed their machine upon is? (yes, that sounds dumb but it's hugely important).

We don't? Environment is trivial to measure (thermometer, barometer, etc). Materials, you could just tell them to get a special type of steel. Same for the table. Tell them to go buy a specific table at IKEA and then put it on solid ground.
>what's to stop your barrel from popping out the top of the jaws as they are closed together?
At the start, it would be cuboid with a hole at the bottom. Wouldn't be much flex. As more material is removed, it starts to become harder to guarantee.
Yeah, that's true. I can't come up with any ideas for how you would solve that.
>I thought you wanted to press your 2-pc barrel halves down inside a pipe? How do you plan on getting a pipe with an octagonal hole in the center?
That's also true. But do they need full contact? If you make it mostly octagonal, but with rounded corners so that it is tangent with the barrel for maybe 50% of the circumference, and then insert D-shaped fillers for the straight parts, would the seal be strong enough?

Alternatively, would you be able to bolt them together if you make them with unneeded material on the side, like in picrel?
It's about SHALL. Specifically, making it easy for criminals to acquire suitable weaponry to commit crime at low cost and skill. Since the firearms regulation at least ostensibly targets criminals, the logical approach is to render it ineffective for them, and not for the unrelated group of law-abiding shotgun owners or survivalists.
You can't do a drive-by with a pipe gun, and no self-respecting ghetto nignog would want a weapon like that. But a Luty SMG is perfectly fine. The cheaper the better, if you can throw it away after use it's the optimal scenario.

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also
>Nowhere near as good as buying a piece of high-pressure stainless tubing
In terms of accuracy as well?

>We don't? Environment is trivial to measure (thermometer, barometer, etc).
Lol, so your proposed solution is to have some kind of software as well as sensors which auto-correct for enviornmental conditions, and adjusts the code accordingly?
People have tried that before. It's how industrial CNCs operated before people put dedicated sensors on the ways to measure thermal expansion. It caused more problems than it solved. Thankfully industrial CNC machines have moved past that.

>> Materials, you could just tell them to get a special type of steel.
It doesn't work that way. When you, as a machinist, buy steel from a vendor you specify the alloy, but you have little control over the state of its internal stresses. I suppose you can anneal it though.

>>Same for the table. Tell them to go buy a specific table at IKEA
CNC machine on ikea table? No, son. You need it really really heavy. Massive block of concrete is a solution. Ikea table is not.

>> I can't come up with any ideas for how you would solve that.
I don't mean to be rude, but that's the point I'm trying to get across. You have no clue how complex these things are. They seem easy because of your naivety, but they are really far from it.

>> and then insert D-shaped fillers for the straight parts, would the seal be strong enough?
Are you asking me to do a bunch of pain in the ass math for you for free? Again, I'm sure it could be designed in such a way as to make it not explode in your face, but what's the point of all this complexity? It's already easy to make a gun by other means. Why are you so insistent on going down this particular rabbit hole?

>>It's about SHALL. Specifically, making it easy for criminals to acquire suitable weaponry to commit crime at low cost and skill
So what's wrong with pipe shotguns then? That requires far less skill, and it's far cheaper.

>>and no self-respecting ghetto nignog would want a weapon like that.
But you expect a self-respecting ghetto gangbanger to be a hardcore computer nerd, have extensive knowledge of metalworking, and choose to buy an expensive computer gizmo instead of drugs and booze? Also, ghetto gangbangers seem to have no trouble getting real guns as it stands. They don't need to make them, they already have them.

Precisely made industrial tubing vs. bubbaed together multi-piece barrel? Industrial tube wins every time.

>CNC machine on ikea table? No, son. You need it really really heavy. Massive block of concrete is a solution. Ikea table is not.
But are massive blocks of concrete that different?

Can't you just tell them to put it on a concrete floor, use it on a day where it's a certain temperature outside, and buy the steel from a certain vendor?

>Are you asking me to do a bunch of pain in the ass math for you for free?
No, I was asking for a ballpark estimate.

>Again, I'm sure it could be designed in such a way as to make it not explode in your face, but what's the point of all this complexity? It's already easy to make a gun by other means. Why are you so insistent on going down this particular rabbit hole?
I don't see any other way to make barrels without requiring complex machinery, and if a CNC machine already can do the rest, it could be repackaged into a larger and more expensive Ghost Gunner. Electrochemical rifling seems applicable, but needs a whole new machine.
I don't think you can use a pipe shotgun for a drive-by shooting, for instance. Many issues with them. A Luty SMG, on the other hand, works just fine.
>But you expect a self-respecting ghetto gangbanger to be a hardcore computer nerd, have extensive knowledge of metalworking, and choose to buy an expensive computer gizmo instead of drugs and booze?
No, I'm asking about the possibility of making it as user-friendly as the Ghost Gunner. That is, sufficiently cheap and easy to use that someone who deals in illegal firearms wouldn't have trouble using or acquiring it.
>Also, ghetto gangbangers seem to have no trouble getting real guns as it stands. They don't need to make them, they already have them.
The costs can always go down. Maybe they don't have issues getting them in America, but do they in every country in the world?

Depends on where you are. In big cities that lost most of their industry decades ago it can be pretty hard. I've actually dealt with the whole thing before, used to work at a shop that did tube and sheet fab (rollcages etc.) and we looked into adding some machine tools to our arsenal.

> you need it really really heavy
geez, just set it down on the concrete in your garage

You have the internet, user. It doesn't matter where the machine is located. You buy it, you have it trucked to you. I live in Texas, I've bought machinery from Canada, as well as both US coasts.

>set not bolt
I see we have another greenhorn in the house.

Don't forget to level it. Speaking of which, do the gangbangers that the other dude mentioned own precision levels for setting up their milling machines?

No, you build it into the machine. It should be idiot-proof, like assembling IKEA furniture.

>But are massive blocks of concrete that different?
From a table? yes. From each other? No.

>>use it on a day where it's a certain temperature outside,
You can tell them to do that, yes. I'm not sure they will listen though. This whole thread is you not listening to us telling you how impractical this idea is.

>>and buy the steel from a certain vendor?
I've been buying steel from the same outfit for 21 years. Each and every piece is different.

>>No, I was asking for a ballpark estimate.
Doable, but at an impractical level of complexity and weight.

>>I don't see any other way to make barrels without requiring complex machinery
You buy them ready made. Your "shall" motivation doesn't need any more than that.

>>I don't think you can use a pipe shotgun for a drive-by shooting, for instance.
Why couldn't you?

>>No, I'm asking about the possibility of making it as user-friendly as the Ghost Gunner
Making a pipe shotgun is FAR more user-friendly than a ghost gunner, which in turn is FAR more user friendly than the more complex meme machine you're talking about.

>>but do they in every country in the world?
News reports seem to suggest they do. Remember that the world's largest mass shooting of children occurred in a nation with among the world's strictest gun laws.

>No, you build it into the machine. It should be idiot-proof, like assembling IKEA furniture.

you are adding an awful lot of features to this meme machine. what's the point of it if it is going to cost thousands?

Yeah, but you're getting into some serious cost for shipping etc. there. May as well just buy something local for more money at that point, at least you can inspect it in person etc. and the cost might end up around the same anyway.

That's not an option for a lot of people, though. Not all garages are really capable of supporting a machine tool properly - for example if you have a basement under yours, or if you've got a hill house like mine where the garage is actually above a bedroom - the floor may well not be up to the task. Also, lots of Jow Forums types probably live in apartments or rental properties, especially in the kinds of states where manufacturing your own firearms would be particularly attractive. (i.e. CA, NY, etc.)

I've actually been considering maybe building a small building to set up a machine shop in. My family actually owns two adjacent lots, one of which is just yard and which has a decent-sized patch of reasonably level ground at street level where a good outbuilding could be put up. It's just that it'd end up being a ton of cost and hassle, once you're building a structure sufficient to have a machine shop in you're into territory where you've gotta get zoning permission, engineering reports, everything has to be done to code, etc. Probably looking at 50k bare minimum by the time you've got a shop up and running with an old Bridgeport and a decent vintage lathe.

Yeah but where did you get the machine from? 2nd hand? You bet you are going to have to level it and true the cross slides and everything else. For accurate work you will have to go over the entire machine replacing worn parts. Lathes, mills, grinders all need work doing to them if it's 2nd hand machinery. Buy new if you can, buy second hand if you want to learn something and you are serious with your hobby. Never, ever, buy Chinese mills or lathes.

>From a table? yes. From each other? No.
Yeah, I mean from each other.
>You can tell them to do that, yes. I'm not sure they will listen though. This whole thread is you not listening to us telling you how impractical this idea is.
It should be cheap and easy enough that someone who wants to be an arms dealer should be able to do it. The Ghost Gunner is $1200. If it costs twice, that's fine if you can make the cost back in a few weeks of illegal arms deals.
>I've been buying steel from the same outfit for 21 years. Each and every piece is different.
Yeah, but that's about how consistent you can get for a layman.
>You buy them ready made. Your "shall" motivation doesn't need any more than that.
Barrels are regulated in many countries.
>Why couldn't you?
Harder to aim compared to pointing a SMG in the right direction and holding the trigger.
>Making a pipe shotgun is FAR more user-friendly than a ghost gunner, which in turn is FAR more user friendly than the more complex meme machine you're talking about.
How user-friendly could you get it?
>News reports seem to suggest they do. Remember that the world's largest mass shooting of children occurred in a nation with among the world's strictest gun laws.
Breivik had to pretend to be doing sports shooting though. It certainly wasn't easy, it took him two years.

If you drop the barrel requirement and use pipe instead, how expensive/difficult would something like a Ghost Gunner that produces something like a Luty SMG be?
Someone in the business of selling illegal firearms could make that sum back fast.
No, first hand. It should be built specifically for making these parts and nothing else.

I wouldn't worry about your floor/foundation for a Bridgeport of a reasonably sized lathe, or things around that weight class. Those can go on an ordinary concrete slab with nor problems.

For real industrial machinery it can be a concern. If you have a shaper or a planer (metalworking, not talking about the wood shop version) then those are especially bad about walking around and absolutely need to be set in concrete with anchor bolts.

Light weight is bad for machine tools. You can often "improve" cheaper/lighter ones by bolting them down. If there are hollow cavities in the machine not occupied by wiring or coolant tanks then fill that space with sand (or better yet, if you can afford it, lead or steel ballast). Weight is your friend.

>Yeah, but that's about how consistent you can get for a layman.
right. And that's not good enough for hands-off machining, which is one of many reasons why your idea is flawed from the start.

>>Harder to aim compared to pointing a SMG in the right direction and holding the trigger.
First off, you think gangbangers "aim" in a drive-by? Lolno.
Second, have you ever fired a SMG in your life? There is nothing in this world that is harder to aim than a machine gun running full auto.

>>How user-friendly could you get it?
You can build a slamfire pipe gun with ZERO tools and $10 worth of stuff from any hardware store.

>> It certainly wasn't easy, it took him two years.
Time has nothing to do with difficulty, user. Perhaps you meant to say "convenient" rather than "easy"?

>>If you drop the barrel requirement and use pipe instead, how expensive/difficult would something like a Ghost Gunner that produces something like a Luty SMG be?
I'm not sure how to quantify it. It would be MUCH easier. A bazillion times easier.

>>Someone in the business of selling illegal firearms could make that sum back fast.
Sure, but at that point you're not offering anything any better than extant technology.

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i dont think you can transfer a milled lower, and a guy in cali got arrested for milling peoples receivers for them

then the lower is being "borrowed"
hence, not transferred in ownership
> eventually ill want it back