So what exactly happened which made 9mm submachine guns relevant again...

who cares buy one and enjoy it

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What about it?

I'm not saying its AP ammo, I had just heard that as far as 5.56 rounds go, it would penetrate further than other commercial offerings of its type.

They never stopped. People are just happy to have a decent alternative to their aging fleets of MP5s so they're buying them up and it seems like they're popping up everywhere.

SMGs have less recoil and less noise anf share ammunition with their side arms
they can also be made very short

when your enemies are in close range and with no armor, the SMG works just fine

thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/03/ryan-finn/sheetrock-penetration-testing-take-1/

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>less recoil
No. Recoil is a function of momentum, 9mm recoils almost the same as 5.56, especially with muzzle brakes.
>less noise
Yes.
>share ammunition
Literally nobody cares about this, because they're not fantasy cowboys out on the range

bringing a big pile of a single caliber to the "range" is convenient

>No. Recoil is a function of momentum, 9mm recoils almost the same as 5.56, especially with muzzle brakes.
No. particularly if any sort of piston or delayed blowback is involved.

Which isn't happening with your blowback 9mm
How? Maybe if you're actually mentally disabled it might be easier, since then you won't get confused at what all the weird numbers mean. But I can't see any way it'd make a difference, when ammo comes in fucking boxes or cans anyway.

the fact that my subgun fits in a range bag with all my handguns and a few hundreds of rounds and can be shot in any indoor range is convenient. not having to buy separate calibers is convenient. the idea of convenience must be a completely foreign concept to you since you seem to be unable to wrap your head around it without getting pissy and upset.

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>spewing platitudes about 5.56 and 9mm having equal recoil because "muh momentum"
>uh, well really i just mean if you compare a DI gun to a simple blowback
Apples and oranges with a side of goalposts. You;re starting to sound an awful lot like one of those "fake experts" i keep hearing about.

The actual not fun explanation is that they literally don't know about short rifles

especially third world police

So, should I compare nonexistant or shitty DI/Piston 9mm guns to 5.56? Ok. They're shit and you should get a 5.56 because it works.

If we want to compare actual guns you might buy, it's going to be blowback 9mm or DI/Piston 5.56. It's not unfair or moving the goalposts, it's called considering your options.

That's a very different thing from
>bringing a big pile of a single caliber to the "range" is convenient
All your guns fitting in one bag to an indoor range because you're an urbancuck makes sense. Pretending grabbing two different kinds of ammo is difficult and eliminating that imaginary difficulty doesn't.

>they're aren't any quality piston or delayed blowback SMGs
You're literally retarded.
>It's not unfair or moving the goalposts
its both you illiterate mong. Literally the most common LEO SMG is a roller delayed blowback with noticeably lower recoil than DI 5.56. The MPX is also a thing. Of course you act like these aren't a thing because then it would BTFO your scarecrow of an argument.

>mp5
You can't afford it
>mpx
It's sig. If you're in love with recalls due to improperly heat-treated FCG components leading to involuntary discharge, sure. Otherwise, no, that's not a quality SMG.

i luv smol gunz

buying seperate calibers is less cost effective than buying a single one. cheaper things are more convenient. I rarely shoot my .308 because paying over $25 a box for 20 half decent bullets is pretty gay and Id rather spend that on 200 rounds of 9mm which I can use to have more fun training more practical shooting disciplines.

>Id rather spend that on 200 rounds of 9mm which I can use to have more fun training more practical shooting disciplines.
this guy gets it

>roller delayed blowback
What does that do for felt recoil? Me no habla the finer points of gun design.

>So what exactly happened which made 9mm submachine guns relevant again?

Inner city fighting

If you said FMJ, I'd believe you.

Reduces it noticeably. The MP5 has a reputation as a very soft and smooth shooting SMG, which is one of the reasons it was so popular for CQB work.

>police don't need guns
Britcuck detected

>9mm recoils almost the same as 5.56

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>So what exactly happened which made 9mm submachine guns relevant again?
I suspect some people got worried after some jackass put a couple of rifle rounds through a window on the 18th floor of a downtown high-rise.

Disregard. He's only looking at momentum and ignoring that gas coming out the barrel, not to mention the period of time it takes both bullets to reach their maximum velocity.

Hes pretty close to right when it comes to simple blowback(particularly crappy ones) compared to mid length DI or a piston. When comparing apples to apples though theres quite a big difference between the two.

>MVQ he thinks that's how you tell recoil energy instead of calculating the energy of ejecta
Just another brainlet trying to look smart

>9mm will shoot right through your average non brick house ( most suburban houses made since the 90s)

Only in the USA the land of substandard housing that only lasts 40 years

Europeans can't use guns for defense anyway, so why bring it up?

You missed the entire point of that post.

No, cops dont need guns because they're fucking retards who barely train, don't know the law, get a smack on the wrist when they fU
uck up super hardcore that even result in people's lives. All the while it has been proven that civilians with guns are more responsible, get more rounds on target (easily almost 100% more) are actually held responsible. Do you even own a gun?

Nothing in this post is true

I saw a guy ND some 9mm ball through a floor and a wall.

>ball
There's your problem. Don't let the NYPD find out.

Actually the CCW accuracy being > than LEO accuracy is definitely a thing. Couldn't recall the name of the study though, hardly surprising when LEO accuracy is usually in the 25-50% range with the 50-60% range being reserved for those that REALLY get out there and train a lot. Being accountable for what you throw down range is probably the why to it.

Well yeah duh, I only brought it up because they were talking about 9mm and you brought up m855. And it wasn't me, I didn't even have guns back then. Oh yeah and it ricocheted off of some metal before going into the floor. Almost went into this girls knee.

My brother accidentally ND into my jeep wrangler. It ricocheted from part of the steering wheel frame into the car door and ricocheted back with little to no damage. Didn't make a dent om the car door or destroy anything. Scruffed the metal on the inside. Its was winchester fmj. Fired from a cz scorpion evo carbine about a foot from the door.

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That's ridiculous. It makes sense though. If it were up to me there would be incentives/requirements for cops to train their asses off, but with lazy departments/unions fighting fitness standards/the general malaise of PDs and citizens in the USA I don't guess it'll improve anytime soon.

can you guys stop NDing?

Tell that to my fucking brother. On the other hand, accidental gun deaths are at an all time low so try not to get too riled.

>things that didn't fucking happen: the post

>9mm recoils almost the same as 5.56
This desu. Its a different kind of recoil, 5.56 is sharp and quick whereas 9mm is more of a long and slow shotgun-esque punt, but in terms of controllability under full auto they're on par, though obviously this varies based on design (eg, ARs are really nice while hk33s are nasty, MP5s are pleasant while Mac11s are near unusable without aftermarket accessories, etc). I think this idea of SMGs being lighter recoiling than assault rifles is borne of videogame balancing and perhaps action movies more than anything.

Police get special tax breaks for buying non-lethal weapons.

>Literally nobody cares about this, because they're not fantasy cowboys out on the range

Speak for yourself

They never went away in the third world. Cheaper to train with, your goons already know how to use and service them, shares ammo with your pistol (tactical aspect is moot/LARP fantasy, but it definitely helps with logistics when Colonel Sanchez bean counting makes 2/3 of supply shipments disappear into the void).

Penetration tests from decades ago have shown that 9mm will pentrate further in things like drywall. Search for intermediate barrier penetration tests.

Cops like SMGs because they are low weight and compact. And looks slightly less aggressive. A cop dons the SMG when he stands guard in a place like an airport where vast masses of civilians pass by. Bad for tourism if he looks TOO much like a soldier.

>9mm cant penetrate a cinderblock, qhwn a 5.56 will
>9mm can only penetrate 1 car door, when a 5.56 will penetrate both
>9mm penetrates more drywall

Fuck man, as an LEO I can honestly say I hold myself to a higher standard. ~150 rounds a week with my duty pistol. That being said, there is some adrenaline factor. Imagine getting a call every 30 minutes, to drive to somewhere you've never been, to deal with people youve likely never met, at their absolute worst, with minimal/faulty/panicked information with backup 20+ minutes away. And get there fast. I'm just saying it can get stressful pretty fast. Albeit I work in a rural county. Its not always that way in cities. We push one man cars. No partners.

At any rate, I keep up on my range time more than mandatory. Mostly cause I was Jow Forums before I became a cop.

start doing pushups at the range. the increased heartrate better simulates stress.

Fuck that. Burpees. Benefits of an outdoor county range. Kinda get to do what you want, provided you aren't a retard.

I'm not making any excuses, just trying to shed a little light on how the job is. I try to be a little better than the average. And before anyone asks: I WILL NOT BE A PART OF MASS CONFISCATION. Only guns I ever took were from felons. And it still feels weird.

Truth. Layers of drywall will stop 5.56 FMJ faster than 9mm FMJ. It's part of tge readon swat teams seitched over to M4s.

A firearm is designed to fire 9mm is almost always going to be much more lightweight in design than a firearm designed to fire 5.56. That could account for the perception that they are about even in terms of recoil. But if you fired both of them from guns of equal weight, the 5.56 would obviously have more kick.

do what works nigga. and ps taking guns from felons is still unconstitutional.

Good cop

it boggles my mind to no end, and i cant bring myself to believe that no matter how many times i have seen the demonstration

logically, the kinetics of moving through a thin but hard object is different from a thick but soft object
but emotionally, i am a kid who still thinks that bigger bullets always penetrate more

reread your last sentence again. and realise the size of the bullet does matter and 9mm is a bigger bullet in a shorter casing.

I agree. If you can't be trusted to own a gun, or vote after adjudication, you shouldn't be allowed in society. I hate how much money we funnel to the corrections system paying for people to live. There IS a solution. But its not my position to say. It is what it is. Mostly I just signed up to help people when I can, to see some wild shit, and to fuck with hard drug users. The opiate epidemic is killing more people than Vietnam. I'm all for natural selection, but god DAMN. The numbers are there.

If nothing else I'm just gonna do my best, every day. Be the change I want to see. Don't hate Jow Forumsops too much guys. We arent all a bunch of Cunts.

A little SMG looks a lot less intimidating than a BIG BLACK ARMY GUN. With recent development they're just as capable as a carbine while being cheaper, 'easier' and 'optics' - what an awful word... - friendly.

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Smaller surface area of the round=less resistance upon contact with a surface.

So hypothetically, if the Hughes Amendment was repealed, a shitload of surplus MP5s would immediately hit the market?

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Police don't need any guns except for those legally available to ordinary citizens.

How many times do I have to tell you people that using folded cardboard for walls is American thing.

reactionary fever dream

drywall is cheaper, easier to remodel, and better insulation than brick

yes but its not like barely shot glocks, those mp5s are coming up on 100k round counts

So they wouldn't be suitable for anything serious like home defense, but what an awesome range toy they'd be.

machineguns aren't really useful for anything besides setting up or reacting to a close ambush. they do however make the absolute best range toys. I set my scorpion up for HD.

styrofoam is even cheaper, easier to remodel and much more better insulation than drywall

It's really dependent on the gun like you said. I have a 16" AR9 that has more recoil than my brother's 16" AR15 in part because he can utilize a big brake on it. Mine is a solid pound heavier with nearly identical setup as well because blowback bolts and heavy buffers are heavy. I have another AR9 pistol with a hydraulic buffer and that's quite smooth and comparable to his rifle and I've heard that the MPX is very soft shooting. Ultimately the action of the weapon matters as much or more than the caliber

>So what exactly happened which made 9mm submachine guns relevant again?
Preparation for mass urban assaults. Governments everywhere expecting civil war.

as they fucking should

The bigger, heavier bullet (9mm) is penetrating further. The faster, lighter bullet (5.56) is stopping short.

the first half of that post sounds so sexual

>Recoil is a function of momentum
Except it isn't? FELT recoil has a large amount to do with the type of action and the impulse(Force/time)

Jow Forumsek

totally agree. really have to evaluate the whole package. never fired an MPX but since it's piston operated, can imagine why it would be much softer. direct blowback 9mm carbines that just slam a heavy bolt back really make you feel all of the cartridge.

not denying any of this but 9mm isn't exactly a whole lot of cartridge to feel.

>9mm

When I told my uncle, who is a green beret, that I had bought a suppressor he told me about how they used to go out with suppressed sub guns some times. I think that is what they are good for.

Gotta get me some cans...

Same. I'm thinking of starting off with a .45. Luckily I was already thinking of getting a new barrel so I might as well get a threaded one so scratch two itches at the same time.

got 2 9s begging for cans. dunno ifnI should buy an AK first.

lol, exactly. didn't mean to make it sound like it was a big impulse

To be fair, you can alway re-barrel an mp5 with fresh rollers in the bolt and it should be good to go for another 100k. So long as the trunnion isn't fucked, but thats even replaceable.

the extractor will likely have to be replaced as they tend to go more frequently than the barrels.

I heard how 20mm didn't have a lot of stopping power, but didn't believe until I NDed my antitank rifle in my garage and it didn't even dent the plywood.

kek