What is the point of double action semi automatic pistols? Why wouldn't you just carry condition 1 at all times?

You don't fiddle with a safety. You just flip it down as you bring it up to shoot. You daft?

I am a big proponent of DA/SA but DA only is dumb.

Single action hammer up no safety trigger uncovered in holster appendix

SDP Subcompact > Glock 26

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Because some people are not comfortable with having a loaded, cocked gun pointed at any part of them.

Is this an irrational fear? Am I going to ND my self if I carry a cocked pistol? How many times this actually happened?

If you have a good holster and know to pull your shirt up when you holster then no, you won't ND. But if you're doing all that then you aren't retarded so congratulations

It's not irrational, but if you aren't retarded it's incredibly unlikely to happen, but if you aren't ok with the risk, just get a DA with a decocker and remove any chance for you to fuck up.

Vs. not flipping anything down when you shoot a DA/SA? Are YOU daft?

Yeah, when you are at the range. You cant know how your brain will work in a shootout until you are in the middle of it. Also, there is the problem that on a cc gun, your hip wants the smallest, flattest, stiffest safety lever, while your thumb really wants a really big, protruding, lose paddle. You cant have both. DA/SA was invented specifically so that you could "have your cake and eat it too".

Happened to me 4 times now. I'm on my 3rd polymer prosthetic penis. On the plus side, i now have a BBC. Figured i might as well since i can chose.

>This thread again
S A G E
A
G
E

>You cant know how your brain will work in a shootout until you are in the middle of it.
So you are telling me you are too worried about your competence in a stressful situation to use a gun with a safety, while at the same time being confident that you won't fuck up and give yourself the Glock leg in the same situation?

This basically never happens with centerfire. This is easily the weakest selling point of DA/SA pistols.

DA/SA has some advantages that SAO or SFA doesn’t. DA/SA or TDA (Traditional Double Action) was initially designed to have the safety of a double action and the shootability of a single action.
>long trigger pull acts as an extra layer of safety if finger is accidentally placed on the trigger for whatever reason
>you can get more aggressive on getting your finger prepping your first shot during the draw
>higher skilled shooters report that they are less likely to jerk shots off targets with DA as opposed to SA, I experience this too

There are some cops including one notable one, Darryl Bolke who was about to shoot at a mentally ill suspect that posed an immediate danger to him. He began pressing through the DA trigger on his P226 when the suspect’s mother tackled the suspect away from him and Bolke was able to immediately get off the trigger. With a 1911 or a striker gun, this wouldn’t have been able to happen.

There are many misconceptions to DA/SA like second strike capability (supposed to TRB), it’s 2 hard (trigger control deficiency) and a caveat to using DA/SA is that you MUST be able to subconciously decock your gun lest you want to be running around with what equates to a cocked and unlocked SAO which is a no no.

Todd Green, Ernest Langdon, Darryl Bolke and Chris Butler have great thoughts on DA/SA on various places if anyone gives enough of a shit to educate themselves further on the trigger type

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Why not striker instead of da/sa? No hammer to snag, no long trigger pull

>No hammer to snag

Non issue. If your hammer is becoming an issue for snag, your draw is horribly shit and so is your trigger control if a 10-8lb trigger is too much for you to handle. All my DA/SA guns have triggers that are laughably superior compared to my Glocks.

All metal DA guns are seeing a bit of a renaissance over the last year or so. Any chance stick shifts might do the same?

You realize those are shit arguments right?
>If you can't work around these disadvantages even though there are better alternatives u suk
>I also can't change a trigger no h8

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Not him. Strikers are fine. No safety, one trigger pull. Vogel is faster on a striker gun than I ever will be on a $1000 production gun.

I like DA/SA because I get a long trigger pull that I must train extra on but significantly reduces the risk of NDs on reholster or draw. Then I get follow up shots on a super light break and short reset. And I like a hammer for tactile warnings on re-holster. Just my preference.

Not so much that i would be incapable of flipping the safety, but that i will simply forget, and the 1.5 seconds extra time i will spend figuring it out will lead to my death, or a victory but with a nasty bullet hole in my shoulder that i could have avoided. As for glocks....strikers suck balls, will never own a sponge pistol. DASA all the way.

And how would Vogel do on a 1000$ production gun if he shot it as much as his glock? We don't know, but i bet it would be better. But take 1000 regular people, and give them both options, and force them to train with both for a month......i think we know who would come out on top.

I'll add that is not just 'I forgot' but in a struggle or a non optimal position you might just miss the safety. or your glove slides off, or something. It also make switching between other guns like a striker fire a little easier if you have another carry gun for BEARS vs persons. if I use SAO for competition and screw up because I didn't practice enough, not nearly as bad.

by all means, SA is good. I carry and still occasionally carry a SA. but if it had no safety it would be an easier CC gun to transition to.

>M-M-MUH SNAG!!!1
Your draw is still shit...lmao. I carried double action guns like the PX4 and P226 for a while, shot an assload and drew even more, never have I ever had the hammer fuck my draw up.

It’s time you hopped off the internets and actually tried some shit out boyo. Now that I mentioned the 226, say some shit about bore axis because retards like you love to bring that up.

I carry a Glock btw u mad???

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You ever carry any of the other cold war guns besides the 226? I'm trying to decide on an 80s metal gun to celebrate the fall of COMECON.

Manually cock or follow up shots with a DA/SA semi auto. Now trigger pull is very short and light. Much better for the aim.

I can shoot much better groups with my S&W 686 (SA) or Beretta 92 than I can with my Glawk. SA/DA just gives you more options.

>Any chance stick shifts might do the same?
Same autists fighting them on /o/ as are bitching about SA/DA here.

>disengaging a manual safety is a fine motor skill and can be far more easily messed up under pressure than a longer trigger pull. Needs far more drilling to do on instinct.
>manual safeties can get snagged on stuff and toggled off even while holstered. Not as much of an issue with triggers once they’re in the holster
>some guns’ safeties/mag releases cannot be reached by people with short thumbs without releasing their shooting grip on it. Clint talks about it here - youtube.com/watch?v=4qyVF1IHDis

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> Deer telling hunters what type of gun to use
There are people you can talk to, deer-user. You're not alone.

Many points.

1) Carrying DA is still condition one, with the safety feature being the initial trigger pull.

This is preferred by many because cocked and locked requires a prologue action of deactivating the safety which in a high stress situation can be a dexterity feat of the thumb.

Whereas in Double Action the most rudimentary of hand motor control, just squeezing your index finger, is all that is needed.

>well I cam carry cocked and locked just fine

If so, good for you. But other people may want different options.

>well people should just train to deal with cocked and locked

Tell that to the huge market share of every handgun that isn't SAO.

>hurr durr are you incompetent

Stop playing keyboard warrior you poser fuck. Reduced dexterity im high stress situations are documented even amongst trained soldiers who have been shot at multiple times. If you are damn sure that you will John Wick yourself out of a self defense situation with finesse, then you are the incompetent one here.

It is an additional aspect that is rendered entirely moot by the DA/SA mechanic with little to no mechanical compromise.

2) in the event of a light primer strike the double action is the grandpa version of yout polymer "restrike" capability. On a 1911, a light primer strike in an emergency situation can only be cured with racking the slide. On your CZ-75, you have the additional option to just pull the trigger again.

OP wonder why gun wont fire from leaving them cocked all the time
>hammer spring dipshit

>thinking springs where out from compression alone
I love DA pistols, but this is just shitty reasoning.

Redundancy and safety user.

Literally 0. Automatic transmissions used to be pretty shitty, inefficient, slow, and heavy. Modern automatic transmissions are better than manuals in every measurable way. You even have high performance sequential transmissions for racecars now, so there's no reason to even have one for weight and power savings. Also, electric cars will become more popular in the next 20 years or so.

>with the safety feature being the initial trigger pull.

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>condition 1
Fuck off or speak English like a normal person, faggot.

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>Because some people are not comfortable with having a loaded, cocked gun pointed at any part of them.

these people maybe just should not get a Sig 320 then? you put a Glk in a Glk brand Glk holster and you'll be fine. A motorbike cops was run over here by a truck and there was nothing but red paint left on the street to recover. Glk survived though and didn't fire.

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He's not wrong though. Why else make your first pull in the 9-12lbs range at all, especially in a gun that will never see rock hard Berdan primers, if not to prevent an ND?

>these people maybe just should not get a Sig 320 then?
Drop issues were fixed, and SIG actually gives their customers the option of a nice ergonomic thumb safety instead of simply informing them that they don't need one for 30 years straight, unlike Glk

>You ever carry any of the other cold war guns besides the 226

I have a 92G-SD that couldn’t care about due to the heavy brigadier slide. Regular 92’s are fine. Carried it a few times but I prefer the 226 if I had to pick an all metal TDA. CZ metal guns are too heavy imho and their P07/P09 is a better option.

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Because he's trying to use wordplay to loosen the definition of Cooper's Conditions to suit his arguments.
Condition 1 is defined as
>round chambered
>full magazine
>hammer cocked
>safety on
Saying that a gun in Condition 2 (Round chambered, full magazine, hammer uncocked) is actually in Condition 1 because a long trigger pull is a "safety feature" is incredibly pedantic and dishonest.

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After Glock, you've got to think that Beretta 92 and SIG P22X magazines are the most common handgun mags around right? It's a shame they didn't design their polymer guns to accept them, instead opting to take the greedy route and making them take their own magazines. The SP2022 and PX4 would be so much more appealing...

>How many times this actually happened?
many

It’s really not an issue. Only advantage about Glock, 226 and 92 mags is that they’re about $18-$22 a piece where PX4 and SP2022 mags are about $30.

They probably had their reasons for having different mags. Fwiw, I heard Mecgar CZ75 mags work in P07’s.

Carry like this then, you pussy.

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Yes. It is.

Because plenty of people have managed to shoot their balls off with Glocks because they bought shitty holsters. Really tho, strikers are fine. It comes down to personal preference.

>hurr durr are you incompetent
Work on your reading comprehension. If you expect to have reduced dexterity that will make you unable to manipulate the safety, why wouldn't it also make you pull the trigger prematurely and shoot yourself in the leg?

>Modern automatic transmissions are better than manuals in every measurable way.
t. Buck "Ditch Bitch" Angel

That’s like saying a revolver is an automatic handgun because you’re not putting your hand on the cylinder to rotate it with each shot.
You can insist on your incorrect version of Condition 1 all you want, doesn’t make it true.

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>you put a Glk in a Glk brand Glk holster and you'll be fine

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>hey probably had their reasons for having different mags
I can almost guarantee it was greed. Pretty sure it's just a matter of dremeling a notch in the right place, fuck having to do that though.

>Fwiw, I heard Mecgar CZ75 mags work in P07’s.
I've read that as well. Guess that's something.

A little late to the party. But I am a big fan of having a versatile carry gun. I like to have one handgun for every handgun purpose imaginable. So I chose a USP compact which is roughly the size of a G19.

The USPC has a DA/SA trigger, a decocker, and a safety. The beauty of this set up is that an ND is almost virtually impossible. This gun allows me to feel safe Mexican carrying it, or throwing it in a pocket with one in the chamber. A glock would never allow me to do that. I usually carry with a holster, but there have been times where I didn't and my USPC was a god send.

It also makes me feel comfy as a nightstand gun, knowing that I can just leave it there unholstered, I can quickly reach for it and don't have to worry about accidentally pulling the trigger when grabbing it in a sleepy and panicked state waking up to hearing something go bump in the night.

Someone is going to say "just carry a glock without one in the chamber" but then that defeats the purpose of a glock. It requires two hands to cock the handgun. While my USPC can simply remove the safety, and pull on a 10lb trigger for the first trigger pull with one hand.

All of this being a shame really, because I shoot Glocks almost as good a Bob Vogel. Okay that's an exaggeration, but I run circles with a G19 around my USPC. It would be cool if the Glock 19 at least had a factory safety option. The conceive and peace of mind my USPC affords is greater than needing to shoot 3 inch groups at 50 yards.

How are you unable to understand the concept of Double Action and it's use as a safety feature? This is really simple stuff.

>No hammer to snag
Lol, you should be more worried about something snagging the short 6lb trigger of your safety-less Glock than a fucking hammer

Wtf happened here

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The reason why double action was created was because it's easier for most to carry a double action handgun with the safety off than a single action with the safety own. It's all about creating a firearm one can be comfortable with and not fear blowing their toes off during to mishandling

His cock got Glocked

Did you not read ? His claim was that
"Carrying DA is still condition one, with the safety feature being the initial trigger pull."
The idea that a longer trigger pull counts as a safety in Cooper's rules is what was in response to, not that it isn't safer.

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Wth?

>he needs a safety

you

Mil/LE and stupid consumers

>needing a safety

What shit holster has the gun pointing at you?

>It would be cool if the Glock 19 at least had a factory safety option
But then that would go against three decades of "Safe Action" marketing bullshit, couldn't have that!

Seriously, fuck Glock and the dogmatic mall ninja dipshits who worship at their altar. Is it really not possible for Magpul to engineer a magazine for any other handgun?

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>if finger is accidentally placed on the trigger for whatever reason
You're an idiot if you let this happen.

Appendix carry

Let's hope not.

Dude removed his trigger safety and the hole punched into the inside of the kydex holster is pulling the trigger by rubbing on the side.of the trigger.

Even in a good holster, occasionally the gun will, depending on where you have it, be pointed at your leg/foot/dick

Scary. Good thing when I carried Glocks, I did so only with thick quality leather holsters. Kydex looks rather scary to holster with when dealing with Glocks.

>You're an idiot if you let this happen.
You're an idiot if you ever "fumble" with a safety lever and can't activate/deactivate it with 100% proficiency under all conditions. See how that works?

Can't deny those quads.

Quads of truth.

>dude just don't put your finger on the trigger, it's not like humans are prone to making mistakes regardless of how much training they have, lmao
>you want me to flip a small lever while drawing the gun? That's way too hard, I'm going to fuck this up!

Case in point, cop shoots his finger off wita a Glock carried AIWB, I can guran-fucking-tee he had the same "just don't pull the trigger lmao" mnidset and thought he's way too good to fuck up:

youtube.com/watch?v=wC45l6S7ZfM

I would go for DA/SA if there was one in singlestack that came in 9mm. For now, I’ll stick with my striker with a safety. There’s hardly any DA/SA handguns that aren’t doublestack hueg blocks.

You truly believe a 9-12lb trigger pull is a safety? It can still ND. Apparently carrying DA/SA also requires a level of retardation. Either carry a striker or if you don’t want to ND, a safety with a striker. DA/SA has no use.

it happens too often

only women, children and faggots drive automatics

>You truly believe a 9-12lb trigger pull is a safety? It can still ND.
No one said it couldn't. A gun equipped with a manual safety - hell, multiple manual safeties - *could* ND. It's far less susceptible though. If you can't see this you're either incredibly dense or you've never fired an actual double action pistol.

Additionally, it is said the additional length (and to a lesser extent weight) on the initial trigger pull gives your brain time to make sure you REALLY want to pull the trigger.

Contrarianism isn't cruise control for cool. Endeavor to be better, user. Be the change you want to see in the world.

They are better than manual right now. This isn’t the 90’s anymore. The only defense for manual is if you live in the middle of nowhere and have access to roads for fun shifting. Bumper to bumper traffic shifting isn’t fun and you won’t be seen as a badass for grabbing your black phallic rod.

Except preferring DA/SA is the contrarian option.

If we're saying that anything but half cocked striker is contrarian, you're right.

I guess I should have used a word that means when someone just comes in with a hot take with no intention other than to piss people off.

>single action trigger pull easier to ND
Maybe if you have Parkinson's. This obsession with accidental discharges needs to stop. Frankly, safety is not the most important thing. Having an effective weapon is a much higher priority. If you are so worried about accidental discharges that you are going to design a less effective weapon, then you shouldn't even own a weapon.

And those people shouldn't own weapons since they are obviously paralyzed by an irrational fear of them.

Embarrassing.

if you're not carrying a metal frame DASA you're literally a homosexual