So after years of watching heists and large-scale robbery movies and doing research on some high-profile incidences, I think I've figured out a viable strategy, whether it's a jewelry store or a bank.
Why hasn't anyone stolen a heli and surpressed officers from the air? Think about it; every unit in the area is going to be funneled into a small area (street outside the location), just sitting ducks. What's stopping a crew from getting a bump stock or even better acquiring an MG some way and just keeping cops pinned from the sky?
This gives time for the hit crew to escape while officers are disoriented, and the air crew can just ditch the copter somewhere and rendezvous later.
Aircraft and their pilots are registered with the appropriate authorities. It wouldn't take long - maybe a day - to figure out who you are and where you went.
Bentley Baker
Because life isn't a 12 year old's fantasy. Go die.
But that's not relevant. What's stopping someone from threatening a news chopper pilot or something? You wouldn't want to hang onto the chopper for any length of time of course.
How is it not relevant? You and the aircraft you stole are on paper.
>What's stopping someone from threatening a news chopper pilot or something?
The fact that you have no fucking idea how to fly a helicopter? Unless you become a pilot, which requires a lot of time, effort, and get this - registration.
Wyatt Flores
>gets shot out of the air by scrambled national guard jets
Brandon Cook
We're talking past each other. Getting a pilot isn't the hard part, relatively. It wouldn't be a 1 or 2 person job, more like 5. Getting the chopper isn't *THAT* hard either; like I said, just blackmail the local news pilot or something.
It wouldn't be for 5 days or anything crazy, it could even be day of, which might be better, because police would be focused on the robbery. That's just basic research.
The way I see it is this:
1. All police/SWAT/response force is localized in an easily ambush-prone area.
2. Police/SWAT/response force is NOT going to engage a flying, moving target while under suppressive fire. It's simply not going to happen.
3. What you'd have to worry about most is the escape. Ideally there are multiple ground vehicles for ground crew, which shouldn't be *too* difficult if all officers are taking cover.
Yes, because the NatGuard is going to be able to engage firing air-to-air missiles over a fucking city within 2-3 mins AT WORST, which is all it would take once the chopper starts engaging.
But that's another variable to think about; distance from retaliatory air response teams. Very good.
Cooper Richardson
Bump stocks are actually really bad for mass shootings. The rate of fire is too high for spraying at crowds, you'll run out of ammo in no time. They're also really unreliable.
Which is why stephen paddock illegally acquired an M240 machine gun, most likely a secret goodie that made it into mexico via the ATF's big brain plans and eventually found its way to a drug-addled degenerate via his dealer before he downed a bottle of vallium to kill his sense of empathy and killed a few people.
Luke Turner
Mostly your biggest problem would be that any helicopter is essentially held together and aloft by expensive duct tape and the will to livs of the people in it. Civilian choppers I have to imagine are worse. Maintenance is one thing, but a chopper taking fire from even a 7.62 has the potential to go down in a hurry. Unless you're somehow going to keep them from back at you.
I don't doubt it about the MG, however I think he was the fall guy for something bigger.
Adrian Lewis
>escape >in the most visible and trackable way possible
Also, you're assuming the news helicopter pilot wouldn't just immediately tell them everything
Gabriel Torres
>t. ATF Agent in charge of the sting paddock was running when it all went tits up. Did you get a promotion at least?
Aaron Reed
> you're assuming the news helicopter pilot wouldn't just immediately tell them everything
Easy to deal with. No reason for him not to comply if we promise a cut, threaten his family, etc. and all he has to do is say his life was in danger. Again, not the focus of the problem
>escape >in the most visible and trackable way possible
This is the focus of the problem. Civilians, cameras, camera phones, etc. make this hard. How would you go about it?
Jace Jones
Regardless of effectiveness that sounds super sick. Are there any heist movies with helicopters like this? Or just helicopter kino in general?
Connor Scott
What a dumb plan
But how about this one: >Team up with terrorists through the internet >Maybe pretend to be Jihadi to get their trust Difficult step of course requires study of their ways which most Jow Forumsunts probably have done already... >Promise them a target far better than a German Christmas market or Sweden: the coppers outside the bank >Tell them the time and place >Do the heist and watch the coppers get blasted away while you get out
Added bonus will be that you are less suspicious due to your non Jihadi background or lack of ties. Use some verses of the Kuran on the Jihadis when you recruit them and speak some easy Arabic lines in the bank. Everybody will be looking for some Ahmed.
Jace Flores
What if you have a pilot with a conscious who decides to crash it instead of helping?
Benjamin Lee
And there's the what-iffers
>what if a mommy with her stroller gets in the way? are you ready to pull the trigger? >what if the chopper fails to start? >what if...
Please, constructive criticism.
>just learn Arabic And my plan was dumb. I can't even tell if you're memeing since this country is getting so brown.
Eli Thomas
Too many variables.
Also police have helicopters. Whoever is in the chopper is going to jail or die.
Jayden Clark
>Massive, fragile, trackable target >Hang like a pendulum dangling in front of dozens of trigger happy cops
Hmm.
William Williams
Overall, Jow Forums is pretty dumb, but this really is beyond the pale.
Julian Brown
>Too many variables In my opinion, this is the best way to limit variables, at least if you're going loud.
>Also police have helicopters. Whoever is in the chopper is going to jail or die.
True, but heli-heli combat is unlikely. What's more likely is NatGuard sending out shoulder-fired surface-to-air if anything. But besides that, there's no reason to be in the air that long.
Ethan Young
>But that's another variable to think about; distance from retaliatory air response teams. Very good. The amount of red tape for them to scramble something carrying air-to-air missile and them using this over urban areas is abundant and probably chaotic as fuck. Unless you've got a big passenger plane (9/11 style) they're not going to launch a missile at your ass.
Getting a helicopter as an escape vehicle is way more viable. If you encounter police on the way out or make contact with a scrambled SWAT/Tactical team you're already fucked. Best bet would be to run out of the bank guns blazing with something beltfed. Since you're already firing at police you might as well go full retard and IED the fuck out of approaches, smoke grenade to obfuscate your escape and a shitload of those tire spikes to blow out the tires of any pursuers.
Ayden Foster
MFW heli-to-heli combat has only ever happened during the Iran-Iraq war and there's no footage of it
The best way to get away with a crime is to have no one realize you did it in the first place.
Less grand theft auto
More Splinter Cell
Jayden Morgan
We are assuming all available "cops" are suppressed and thus it's extremely unlikely they risk their lives getting hosed to take pot shots.
What would you do, with a heli circling firing down on you in the middle of the street? Take the time to try and aim your rifle at the moving target or keep your head down?
Please, constructive criticism. If you think you could fix or do it better going loud, elaborate.
Sebastian Johnson
I agree, we're assuming you go loud though
Sebastian Wood
I dunno man. Some guy was able to steal a plane and do barrel rolls and all sorts of cool shit, all his experience was from flight simulators and just basic knowledge he had on planes.
Carson Reyes
you play too much GTA V and your shits all retarded >sage
>Getting a helicopter as an escape vehicle is way more viable.
How so? I figure you're much less of an exposed target on the ground if no news choppers are in the air, especially since we all have seen those news videos with perfect coverage. Without them, and the potential pursuit cops scrambling, the civilians would be the worst.
>If you encounter police on the way out or make contact with a scrambled SWAT/Tactical team you're already fucked.
Not 100%. If you're engaging with officers, you've lost. If SWAT is allowed to storm the building you've lost. But if negotiations are taking place and the air support shows up, you're in a much better spot, especially with smokes.
And yes, a location with few entry points would be best, as the chopper would only have to focus one or two areas and ground team wouldn't have to worry about cops retreating INTO the building to take fire.
You read this thread, knew you were going to get bootyblasted, and still posted. Embarrassing. Imagine being you.
Xavier Roberts
Thank you for your substantive post.
Cooper Lopez
Your welcome, you got what you deserved
Lucas Martinez
You might want to watch the doc "cocaine cowboys" - sure those criminals were from a different era (waaaay less surveillance) but I think you'd find the "mcgiver" fucking mechanic/pilot dude pretty interesting.
I loved that show "masterminds" back in the day that covered high level heists and shit.
Owen Cruz
Who has the advantage?
Chopper wins by simply keeping cops supressed.
"Coppers" win by disabling the chopper using an M4 or MP5 with a holographic sight on a 200-300 meter moving, circling target while being pinned down by MG fire in a very open and exposed target area.
Be honest; you'd be the first one trying to roll under cars and shit when all the metal around you starts plinking off.
Dominic Jenkins
Bait.
Blake Garcia
By the time you graduate high school you should amass enough experience and understanding about how the world works to know a thousand reasons why this plan is shit. But if I was to magically grant you your stupid helicopter, it would just get shot to shit with crew wounded in seconds, and be forced to retreat/fall out of the sky like a broken bird. This is what happened in North Hollywood. If you don't know what that is, you're not old enough to be here. If you do, you're shit posting. Even we magically granted you a bulletproof helicopter that can successfully support your retarded robbery, it would just get followed by police/news helicopters/drones/satellites. If it's not shot down during country-wide police chase, it will quickly run out of fuel, and the crew can expect a warm welcome on the ground.
Tl;dr: Stop playing GTA
Nolan Ward
>"suppressing" an entire urban district >hundreds of cops, SWAT, civilians, military unloading from all sides on a single fragile target from good cover and concealment with rifles
Isaiah Hall
A lot of non-arguments. Try not to be condescending if your arguments aren't good in the slightest. Have you even read the thread?
> it would just get shot to shit with crew wounded in seconds
First flaw. see >This is what happened in North Hollywood Second flaw. North Hollywood failed because their heli got shot down? That's news to me. Now I'm informed.
> police/news helicopters/drones/satellites
Now I know you haven't been paying attention. How would police and news copters follow? You realize the news leaves the area when PISTOL fire is exchanged on the ground, right?
Drones, satellites? Full larp. You're wasting my time.
Jacob Ward
It would be shot, retard. Even sturdy Huey helicopters got shot down all the time with small arms. A civilian helicopter is basically paper tissue. And yes, a POLICE helicopter was shot and retreated during North Hollywood, and there was only a singly guy with an assault rifle shooting it. How would a helicopter follow a helicopter? Do you even know what you're saying?
>a thread died for this
Camden Baker
>"suppressing" an entire urban district
Not an entire urban district, you mongoloid, stop purposely misinterpreting.
>hundreds of cops, SWAT, civilians, military unloading from all sides on a single fragile target from good cover and concealment with rifles
>implying hundreds of cops or swat >implying military >implying civilians (topkek) >implying good cover and concealment in the street or at best surrounding buildings.
Again, no one is staying around to party, moron. It's get in, circle (if necessary) a couple times, get out. Not "let's hang around and wait for the M2 Brownings to arrive. That sounds fantastic!"
Carter Wilson
(You)
Owen Lopez
>It would be shot, retard. Even sturdy Huey helicopters got shot down all the time with small arms.
Who's peaking their fucking head with MG raining down, you moron? God, you sound retarded. The boys in Iraq would have loved you, huh? And are you implying that that police heli was circling and firing on the vigilantes? Show me evidence to support this.
>How would a helicopter follow a helicopter?Do you even know what you're saying?
No one is saying to retain the chopper. And which is it: are the police going to retreat when fired upon or take chase? Make up your mind.
Caleb Howard
Can't wait till you become the hero of one of those hilarious failed store robbery videos
Zachary Edwards
I'm familiar. You have shown no evidence. Goodbye.
Luke Sanchez
If you're engaging in a firefight with police, you've already fucked up the heist.
Kayden Harris
Actually a few "heists" involving helos happenned in France, was mostly prison evasions. The last one was Redoine Faid he was taken away from jail in a stolen helo
I agree. Again, it wouldn't be a firefight, it would be officers keeping their heads down while ground crew escapes. Ideally there is no exchange of fire except from the heli to the ground.
Dominic Turner
sage
Blake Torres
the helicopter you'd steal is worth more than the cash on hand the bank will give you.
Owen Wright
Which wouldnt happen in reality
Oliver Hall
(YOU)
Anthony Gutierrez
So, your helicopter is either going to be flying low enough that they'll be able to track you by the stream of calls to the police about it, or you'll be flying high enough that you'll be on radar.
Furthermore, a helicopter is only slightly faster than a car, and if the local PD has someone that isn't retarded in charge, they'll make sure to leave some patrol cars scattered about to have a head start on chasing you down.
Thirdly, lots of police forces have their own helicopters. Some have airplanes, too. Either would work well for following you and coordinating ground forces.
Lastly, my local Sheriff's Department has repeatedly shot people on foot, horseback, and in moving automobiles, from their helicopter. I have no doubt they'd fire on a helicopter from the ground, or the air.
Zachary Young
>So, your helicopter is either going to be flying low enough that they'll be able to track you by the stream of calls to the police about it, or you'll be flying high enough that you'll be on radar.
Irrelevant. Read the thread. There are no plans to retain the copter.
>Furthermore, a helicopter is only slightly faster than a car, and if the local PD has someone that isn't retarded in charge, they'll make sure to leave some patrol cars scattered about to have a head start on chasing you down.
This might be a problem. Finally some competence.
>Thirdly, lots of police forces have their own helicopters. Some have airplanes, too. Either would work well for following you and coordinating ground forces.
Doubtful, until seriously out of range of gunfire, but a possibility. The objective is to leave the heli before that pops off.
>Lastly, my local Sheriff's Department has repeatedly shot people on foot, horseback, and in moving automobiles, from their helicopter. I have no doubt they'd fire on a helicopter from the ground, or the air. I'm not doubting this, but again, extremely doubtful in this case. Have they been suppressed from 200-300m by a flying MG? It would be lunacy to fire back with low magnification M4s.
Cooper Mitchell
The helicopter as an escape vehicle is ideal for an urban area since its can, if used correctly, ignore all traffic and drop you off at a secondary location away from prying eyes. All hinges on how fast you’re able to get away, with people giving chase it becomes more difficult. Using a helicopter as an impromptu gunship is just asking for it to get downed by basic small arms fire.
Honestly using guerrilla tactics against first responder and hampering their approach would be way more effective than hinging a plan on that single fire support platform. Cops would have to spent a significant amount of time clearing nearby blocks, doubly so if you have some actual explosives and dummies lying around. They’re going to be tied up for a significant amount of time versus them having to down just one helicopter.
Aaron Johnson
>Irrelevant >Doubtful >extremely doubtful You are dumb as fuck
John Thomas
Have you never heard the adage "You can't outrun a radio."?
The only way you could use a helicopter effectively in a bank robbery is if you managed to flee the area before the robbery was even reported to the police, and land before their aircraft were airborne. Which would make the helicopter pointless, because you could just drive away in that scenario.
Gavin Sanchez
Let's pretend you can outrun the cops long enough to get somewhere with your heli. What then? The ground crews' cars are going to need dumping too, and with the police pursuing them too they might not be able to pick up the chopper crew. You'd need a tertiary crew to pick up the chopper crew, which would definitely make this a too large crew for just a small heist
Charles Brown
Bank robberies are an obsolete crime. When was the last one where robbers got away without getting blasted and/or having money destroyed with dye packs?
Brody Clark
>The helicopter as an escape vehicle is ideal for an urban area since its can, if used correctly, ignore all traffic and drop you off at a secondary location away from prying eyes.
Not really. Any urban area is going to have an ATC that's really curious about the chopper that just flew into the city without making radio contact, and landed where there isn't a pad.
Logan Powell
Tracking the helicopter means nothing if no one is in it. Goodbye.
I'm looking for solutions. My idea was parachuting behind a mountain and leaving the heli on auto to distract. Or into a ocean with an oxygen tank. These obviously are extremely risky though, with the prevalence of cameras. The streets would be cleared though, and presumable pedestrians.
Location is also key here, obviously, as it presents limitations.
Like I said, it doesn't matter if ATC knows exactly where the heli is if nobody is inside. If coppers aren't in pursuit vehicles could be waiting at drop-off.
Evan Rodriguez
Are you the retard who posted that MGS 5 is the most Jow Forums game?
Jason Morris
Heists aren't actually too lucrative. My dad once counseled a former bank robber who wanted to pull another heist, but apparently you only get something like 100k out of it, all preparations considered. You'd need to pull one every couple of years, which increases your chances of getting caught by a huge amount
Bentley Hernandez
>My idea was parachuting behind a mountain and leaving the heli on auto to distract. Or into a ocean with an oxygen tank. Jesus Christ.
Kid, with all your action movie experience, I don't understand why you don't join the Navy Seals and show those limpwristed fags how soldiering is really done.
Michael Wilson
>suppressing fire >on an urban setting You are asking to be marked as a terrorist and being blown off the sky by a missile the very moment the military see that the chopper destruction won't cause collateral damage
Brayden Fisher
>only 100k
Connor Ramirez
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the bank robber school, and I've been involved in numerous heists on Bank of America, and I have over 300 confirmed SWAT officer kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US criminal underworld. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will rob you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of thieves across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can rob you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States criminal underworld and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.
Isaiah Cook
>Tracking the helicopter means nothing if no one is in it. Goodbye. So now the heli is flying around shooting at cops with no one in it huh
Colton King
Why is the parachute idea untenable? That's just one of many. I'd like actual criticism please. How would you do it?
>Kid
How do you do, boomer?
Ethan Nelson
>You are asking to be marked as a terrorist and being blown off the sky by a missile the very moment the military see that the chopper destruction won't cause collateral damage
Which is never, ideally. There are specific time windows to be met. Jets will not by scrambled firing Sidewinders through cities.
I thought you meant after that. Of course everyone knows where the chopper is while in the target zone.
>The Swedish police arrive at 05:25 (CEST) but do not intervene, due to reports of the use of submachine guns.
It would probably be different in America, but blocking access roads beforehand and disabling police helicopters are very good ideas.
William Torres
Well, it will be followed from the target zone, Einstein. From safe distance if it's armed. After it clears the city, it's either sidewinder time or wait-till-it-lands-and-put-you-in-prison-to-have-your-ass-pounded-by-tyrone time.
Unless you parachute behind a hill into the sea with oxygen tank and dive to your secret submarine and sail away, that is. Lmao.
Isaiah Powell
You better be a faggot OP, because otherwise prison will be really hard on you.
Luis Reyes
Take hostage, fly to Cuba.
And can they really track a helicopter flying at 100 feet?
Adam Kelly
who says something about a jet when they can bring an actual military helicopter and gun you down in less of a minute.
The moment you start flying armed you automatically became a threat for everyone in the City if not the entire country.
Jackson Phillips
Who's following? How did police arrive when they're stuck, dazed, at the scene? So many questions.
Adam Adams
anti terrorists groups are a thing since the 80's I believe
Justin Reed
we're seeing levels of retardation that should not even be possible
Ethan Long
So you also plan on disabling every police helicopter in the area and block off all the roads without anyone noticing
Ayden Lopez
With your fucking eyes, from miles away
Matthew Anderson
Well, they did fucking get arrested. Same as all modern bank robbers. It's not the wild west.
Gabriel Martin
Imagine being this fucking detached from reality
Jeremiah Howard
If you shoot people on the ground from a helicopter you commit a crime on a completely different level. We're talking activation of the national guard.
Lucas Wood
I will detonate a massive EMP in the atmosphere over Miami, and use Grad missiles with clusterbumbs full of steel-spikes to scatter everywhere in the city.
Check mate, m8.
Benjamin Morris
I'm getting tired of reiterating, you must understand. Yes, EVENTUALLY aircraft will be scrambled. I addressed this here 3 hours ago
>But that's another variable to think about; distance from retaliatory air response teams. Very good.
If you haven't stalled ATC (they don't immediately call NatGuard) long enough to sound an alarm to get military aircraft in the air AND you're targetted in a causualty-minimized area you've lost. This is worse case; conflicts like these get sorted out during the prep stage, where exactly you're going to go, how you're going to get there, what window of time you have. You have the element of surprise, LE doesn't know what you're going to do net
Adam Myers
The most you will ever achieve is probably shooting up his school and hurting gun rights. You should just blow the back of your head off now. Your birth was a mistake, and you are to screwed up to ever be functional member of society
Henry Martinez
This has been thoroughly discussed. Read thread, I mean no condescension.
Brandon Lopez
>1. All police/SWAT/response force is localized in an easily ambush-prone area. Yes, the ENTIRE police force, literally everything they have will be put in a spot just so you can suppress them with your MG. Jesus fucking Christ m8
You need to be fairly high to jump with a parachute. This would mean you could be tracked with radar. Subsequently jumping out with a parachute and slowly descending to the ground would be super obvious for anyone following you. And yes, you would be followed
Jaxson Collins
Use one of those tiny choppers they use to muster cattle. Much easier to acquire, much smaller than a gigantic commercial chopper, much easier to camouflage once it's landed after the job. The choppers timing would need to be perfect. It would need to appear at precisely the right time to strafe the area and keep the first responders in cover for a few seconds, half a minute at most, just enough for the hit crew to slip awayq
Matthew Clark
Yes, OK, we get it, Private Jessica is going to be filing paperwork. Irrelevant. Everyone within the radius will be taking cover, you're being unnecessarily technical. Suppress the snipers on rooftops first, which will be the primary retaliation, if any.
>you would be followed
This is circumstantial. We can break out the protractors and the maps and run police response time estimates and top speeds of helicopters and distances from the natguard bases to a rendezvous point and do the math and physics on any particular location to see if it is reachable by the crew. That's prepping.
Charles Jackson
It only takes one guy with a battle rifle to disable a civilian helicopter. You can't "surpress" every single rifleman. And you won't be a moving target. Because if you are, your "surpressive" fire is not effective, and now absolutely everyone is shooting at you, and you will be hit and go down in under a minute. And if you're not moving, you're a giant fucking bullseye. Everyone who can hit a car at 500 meters with a rifle will turn you into swiss cheese.
Kayden Cooper
You know who else ran police response times? Phillips and Mătăsăreanu.
William Fisher
Are you saying moving helicopter gunners are ineffective? The Coast Guard, Army, Navy, Air Force would all like to have a discussion with you. As would Vietnam vets. This is probably the weakest criticism I've heard thus far.
Julian Hall
And they did it right, a cop was driving by just as they pulled up and radioed in their position. They were planning on the silent alarm being tripped with a several minute response time, not being jumped while they were still in there.
