Do tight tolerances and fitting on a (hand)gun automatically mean less reliability? Ive heard some bad anecdotes about custom or high-end 1911s that felt like swiss-made buttered glass, but had countless failures when it came to the firing range. How much truth is there to this? Does it affect other guns with tight tolerances like a Sphinx 3000, and top of the line (race) guns like say the SIG X Six series? Or is this more a question of ammo choice? I would guess that a race gun with a shitty reliability record isnt a good business model.
Tolerances
Christian Jones
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Adrian Lewis
"Tight tolerances" is about as retarded of a meme as you are a person. All guns are "tight tolerance". They kinda have to be to contain a little explosion in your hand and near your face.
Carson Harris
I know (and regularly shoot with) like 5 people who own Sig X5 or X6 pistols. I've never seen any of them mal'f.
I know a guy who owns a Korth .45. He says its very very picky on ammo.
I own one of the more hipster-y "race guns", a Safari Arms 1911 with a Peters Stahl 9mm slide/barrel. It requires a very specific amount of oil to run properly. Too much or too little, it'll act up. After around 50 rounds, it'll start acting up either way (because, I assume, some amount of oil burns off or evaporates during that time). If you reach the perfect balance of oilyness, it'll require 115grs or lighter bullets, flat out doesn't work with 124grs. But... if you get all those things right, its a very smooth, very slick gun to shoot. Everything is tight.
>tl;dr
YMMV. Depends on the gun. And the ammo. And the shooter not being incompetent. And the magazines being in-spec, many handgun failures are in fact mag failures.
Charles Barnes
A big source of the reliability problems you mention is not the tolerances to which the gun is manufactured but when people who are mere artisans or builders change the design of a reliable firearm for what comes down to marketing purposes. Relevant video: youtube.com
It's funny you mention the Korth .45--I seem to remember Karl and Ian looking at one during one of their SHOTshow videos from previous years and they were praising its quality despite the fact that it was malfunctioning on camera.
Juan Clark
dude this thread including the korth and ian comments are giving me dejavu....wtf is going on. i think i read this exact discussion like 6 months ago
Jose Rogers
Notice how I *didnt* say the Korth malfunctions. Provided you give it the ammo it likes. IIRC it doesn't like feeding HP or SWC, but FMJ was fine for the guy.
I don't remember an InrangeTV video on the Korth, just the "regular" FW at RIA or JDJ, and he didn't get to shoot it.
Well sometimes bots post threads again with a couple replies to start them off in the hope of getting people in who didn't see the thread before. Because hiroshimoot likes ad revenue or something, idk.
I assure you though I am real.
Jaxson Jackson
Because you're trapped here fucknuts. We're going to repeat the same shit again and again for forever
Jayden Moore
I may or may not have already posted this thread some time ago while heavily loaded without checking back at the replies the next day.
Isaac Morris
I've heard that tight tolerances and full-length guide rods make guns unreliable.
Colton Peterson
UNRELIABLE!?
Christopher Miller
Mason Evans
You should have realised you were trapped after about a month.
Jason Diaz
Well, thats obviously not a soldiers' gun then
Nathan Ward
Let me educate you and everybody else.
>Tolerance
How much the dimensions of a part can vary from specifications and still be acceptable
>Clearance
The distance between parts, aka how tight of a fit things are
I think you mean clearance.
Justin Long
Have you tried using grease? I'm assuming you're using oil on the slide rails. I put hoppes grease on my pistol (admittedly, not a race gun) and grease heats up, but it doesn't melt away.
Landon Walker
If a production gun gets pulled from sale because its clearance is unacceptable.... then it has tight tolerances... thanks for the "lesson"
Parker Brooks
Quite the opposite, actually. You specify tolerance, e.g. 5"+/-.005", based on requirements for function and parts interchangeability. If the part is outside those tolerances, it is rejected as it may not function as intended. For example, headspace may be specified to have a tolerance of +0.001"/-0". Sure, you can allow something to ship with a looser headspace of +0.003", but you risk having the gun blow a case. Loose tolerances can result in scenarios like a firearm jamming from too little clearance or failing to contain pressures due to too much clearance.
Charles Wright
>a looser headspace might blow the case
Eeeh.
Adam Morgan
That guy bought a lemon and is too embarrassed his overpriced meme gun has been shit out untested by some mexican yokel before leaving work early to murder young white families.
Cooper Williams
half a thou vs 12 thou you nigger. Also the clearances on firearms aren't even mildly extreme.
Sure, they would be extreme for the 17th century, but it isn't the 1600's anymore.
Tolerances are not clearances.
Noah Garcia
Based in-spec posters
Ethan Richardson
>Tolerances are not clearances.
Fellow engineer and/or machinist spotted.
Cameron Baker
This is the video InRange did on the Korth: youtube.com
With Fiocchi .45 FMJ, standard Remington 1911 mags with extra power springs, and the booth guy telling Ian "you need to grip the gun really tightly," this is what happened in the 3 magazines he fired:
>Didn't lock back on the last round
>Didn't go into battery
>Didn't cycle because the slide didn't engage the hammer
Then Karl tried it. In the one magazine Karl fired:
>Didn't lock back on the last round
The video footage shows that the Korth was having one malfunction every single magazine despite being a $3,700 pistol and presumably having been prepped for SHOT show by the company. I'll admit I have never owned a race gun/gamer gun, but that's pretty damning if that's typical performance for one. The most hilarious part though? You still had Ian praising it to high heaven despite it being unreliable as all hell. Between that and the Chauchat, I guess he just has a fetish for guns that don't actually work.
Eli Martinez
didn't know that video, yeah that pretty poor performance.
Only explanation I can think of is that on a gun with very tight clearances, the tolerance for dirt buildup is very low, and that the reason for that specific underperformance was that that gun was being shot by spectators in the booth all day long. It might look different if you clean it out every 50 rounds or so, which I do with my Peters Stahl. But we don't know that.
Where I would usually differentiate between a "gamer" gun and a "duty/carry" gun is that the latter should function in adverse conditions, such as dirt ingress and/or not being cleaned for hundreds of rounds, whereas a "competition" gun may have "higher standards" and is allowable to not work under non-optimal conditions.
Also, wtf? A trigger that goes off only by the motion of the gun during recoil? That sounds like a VERY bad idea, and thats coming from someone who has a 390€, 200ish gram weight-of-pull trigger installed in his AR, pic rel.