Dangerous animal defense

Literally any service pistol caliber would be good enough, so long as you aren't using ammunition designed to expand a significant amount. Do you have a full size pistol or revolver?

>So I don't think a .357 or even a .44 magnum is a good idea.
.357 and .44 have worked fine for other people under those exact same circumstances for a long time now FWIW. With heavy for caliber hardcast rounds most would consider a .357 adequate(if minimal) defense against anything but the largest of hogs and black bears, and .44 is considered the same for brownies. That being said, just as with humans a rifle or shotgun will always be a better choice assuming you'll actually have it handy when the time comes.
>7.62x39 or 30-30
Both are great choices for a closer range medium game cartridge and should be fine for your use. Personally I'd lean towards 7.62x39 with a quality expanding round out of a semi auto carbine of some sort between the two as it would be an exemplary defensive gun against game, defensive wood gun against people, and car gun/get home gun for use around vehicles or other light urban cover while also being an alright hunting choice given an accurate enough platform. Ammo is even cheap allowing for guilt free frequent practice to boot. Just ticks off more boxes for me than a .30-30 lever gun. Consider investing in bear mace too, park rangers/DOC don't like people putting black bears on blast when its avoidable and just like with people it's nice to have an option for those situations that could escalate but haven't quite yet and would provide physical evidence of your reluctance to resort to lethal force.
IDK about that. Hog shields are pretty thick, as are bear shoulders and skulls. Id stick to hardcast or ball with either of those and cross my fingers while i was at it.

Bear skulls being hard to penetrate is a myth that comes from people shooting them with older soft lead bullets. The idea that you need some larger than normal caliber to adequately defend against a brown bear is silly.
ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/

lmao not they're fuckin noses though lol just grab that shit and slap it

>Bear skulls being hard to penetrate is a myth
No, and nothing in that article even comes close to arguing that point.
>The idea that you need some larger than normal caliber to adequately defend against a brown bear is silly.
Oh, come off it you idiot. There's more depth to the vitals, tougher skin, tougher musculature, with tougher and thicker bones. You're talking out your ass if you think that human anatomy and physiology is the same as a brown bears. Some cherry picked selection of anecdotes doesn't change reality, I've seen a skinned bear killed by 9mm hardcast and was hardly impressed with the results.

>The old MYTH that bullets will slide off a bear’s skull is pure hogwash when using modern ammo featuring bullets that will not mushroom when fired out of a powerful handgun. When using high powered rifles, it is OK if the bullet mushrooms as the high velocity of the rifle bullet will puncture the bear's skull regardless, because of its high velocity. 150 years ago, when the early settlers were heading west, the muzzle loaders they used, fired pure lead (very soft) round balls that would or could flatten out against bone and possibly slide off, leaving only a surface wound, when hitting a bears head. Unless you are using pure lead bullets that are rounded, this situation is no longer a concern.

>You're talking out your ass if you think that human anatomy and physiology is the same as a brown bears
>If you are relying on shoulder or heart/lung shots to kill such a bear, it takes a lot of cartridge. One that will make a big hole that goes very deeply through bone and into internal organs. If you hit him fatally in the chest area, you will then have roughly 15 to 30 seconds to stay alive before the bear learns he is dead.
>If you are relying on brain shots, it is not all that hard to kill adult grizzly bears. Almost any center fire cartridge of 357 bore or larger with a very hard non-expanding, flat nosed bullet will pierce a bears skull with direct /frontal (between the eyes) hits. From the side angle, shoot them right at the bottom of the ear canal. These two shots are instant death if you are using correct ammo.

This is from Buffalo Bore's FAQ section.
buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=62

Bluepilled wannabe schizo poster.

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OP checking back in, thanks for the input- my choices with 7.62X39 are a bit limited, but I agree that it does generally meet the qualifications better. I'll probably have to build a Saiga type gun myself, if I want to use an AK derivative (I live in one of those states, unfortunately). I would resort to bear mace as a first line of defense if possible, of course.

50 bmg, if that doesn't kill it it can't be killed.

Fuck bears. Sitting at picnic tables, trying to be like people.
youtu.be/1SDJraMb1bA

this

Just do .357 with hard cast if blacks are the biggest thing you have to worry about and wanna be safe. 10mm is also a great choice. I won't say hogs and bears are invincible monsters but it's moronic to put your safety in one camp, so ignore the retards who bring cases of .22 or 9mm being used like you would anyone who recommends .500 s&w as a minimum for black bear. That being said while noone gives a shit about hogs (for good reason), blacks are usually far more timid and can be spooked easily by being loud outside of being really hungry as in actually starving or going near cubs so I woudn't worry about them, they also tend to bluff charge so something to keep in mind. I'd be way more worried about cats since you'll be lucky to get a shot in if they really want you dead, you're probably better off with a faux pair of eyes on the back of your head unless they've wised up like those indian tigers to villagers who wear mask on the back of their heads. Also a can of bearspray might be worthwhile to keep blacks afraid of people without killing them if they get close but not close enough to warrent a kill.

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According to your own cited source the bear(haha) minimum for a completely perfect and totally "realistic" straight on head shot is a .357 magnum with hardcast rounds. That is not a normal defensive choice against people. Im sorry, but are you arguing for me or against me at this point?

>for a completely perfect and totally "realistic" straight on head shot
That specific shot is listed because people regularly claim that part of a bear's skull is harder to penetrate and more likely to have shots glance off.

>a .357 magnum with hardcast rounds
.357 bore is what the writer specifies.

>That is not a normal defensive choice against people
.357 magnum used to be mainstream for defense against people when revolvers were still common, and I never claimed that the hollow points that people normally carry were a good bullet choice for grizzly bears.

10mm for a handgun, 7.62x39 for a carbine

And go SKS for 7.62x39 because innawoods

>they prefaced that this is only relevant with a perfect shot angle for no real reason, who cares about the real world where that might not be a given and glancing shots to the skull are a norm on a charging bear
>when this fucking ammo manufacturer specified .357 bore they didn't mean anything specific and relevant by it like .357 magnum, they probably meant something like .38 S&W
>i never claimed that normal defensive rounds were fine by saying that bear skulls being hard to penetrate was a myth and that people thinking you need a more potent than typical defensive round for such tasks was also a myth
You're a total faglord. You quoted me claiming that you didn't need anything beyond a typical defensive round which anybody in their right mind would take to mean 9mm, .40, .45 JHP for use against bear in your original post. Now you're moving the goalposts over to "at a bare minimum .357 magnum hardcasts with a perfect frontal headshot between the eyes" which is entirely in line with my original post you tried to argue with. A game animal that requires a minimum of a .357 magnum hardcast to the head with a straight on shot between the eyes clearly requires significantly more potent ammo than a human considering that a fucking .22lr would be the minimum for the latter under comparable conditions. You're an overly argumentative moron.

get a Makarov

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Just dip your dick in chilli powder so when the bear goes to bite it there is some extra flavor.

Oh, and are you seriously acting like
isn't you? going from "lmao just use 9mm JHPs" to a minimum of .357 magnum hardcast with a perfect headshot is a fucking huge leap which pretty much ends the whole argument right there.

wuz in the hills in AZ around dusk when I heard my first Cougar roar. Man did that send prehistoric shivers up my spine!

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0/10 kys

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man id pay so much to have a domesticated bear so it’d be harmless and just snuggle the shit out of it hahahaha. ever scratch a dogs ticklish spot and they start reflexively kicking their leg? imagine a bear doing that, so cute! just tickle that silly bear and snuggle with it hahahaha cute silly bear

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Cats are fucking scary, don't get me wrong bears can still be monsters but usually aren't as clever as cats or as sneaky. They've earned their maneater reputation for a reason. It doesn't help they tend to wise up well like those Indian tigers realizing the poo's backwords mask was a ruse. While the stopping power recommended for bears is not as needed for big cats (least in North America), as I've said you'll be lucky to get a shot in if they really like the way you look, I guarantee it.

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>they prefaced that this is only relevant with a perfect shot angle for no real reason
Read my post again nigger.

>glancing shots to the skull
Do you actually think a shot that isn't going to hit the brain is relevant here? A glancing shot to a human's skull isn't going to be very effective either.

>when this fucking ammo manufacturer specified .357 bore they didn't mean anything specific and relevant by it like .357 magnum
They wouldn't go out of their way to say bore instead of specifying ".357 magnum" for the hell of it. It's clearly worded that way because the mean bullet diameter and not ".357 magnum or other cartridges that offer higher muzzle energy".

>they probably meant something like .38 S&W
"almost any"

>9mm, .40, .45 JHP for use against bear in your original post
OP specified black bears that grow to 250 lbs max you fucktard. Yes, regular self defense ammunition designed for human size targets is enough for an animal that isn't outside what a regular human might weigh. Hence the cases in that article I linked of police having no problems dropping black bears with their normal duty ammunition.

>which is entirely in line with my original post you tried to argue with
You claimed .357 magnum wasn't even adequate for larger black bears and that you needed .44 magnum or larger for brown bears.

>perfect frontal headshot between the eyes
IE a shot aimed for the brain which is the only shot that's going to stop a charging grizzly from raping you, unless you're satisfied giving him 30 seconds to plow your ass assuming you did get a good shot on his vitals.

>only shots delivered at a perpendicular angle in between the eyes are relevant, anything else would miss the brain
You clearly don't understand either basic anatomy or geometry. Maybe both.
>when they said .357 bore they really meant .38SPC or S&W not .357 magnum
Really, do you think that they meant one of the other .357s?
>9mm, .40, and .45 acp JHP is perfectly adequate despite my only cited source saying the opposite
>You claimed .357 magnum wasn't even adequate for larger black bears and that you needed .44 magnum or larger for brown bears.
I said that was the general opinion of most people. Learn to read.

i think we're done here.

I agree with this, we have bears around me but they are okay. They want our trash, otherwise they avoid people really well, I only see them occasionally.

We also have mountain lions though, and those fuckers are scary as hell. They likewise avoid people most of the time, but when they don't someone gets really hurt or killed frequently. When a small bear decides to attack you can play dead and it will probably wander away pretty quick. When a cat decides to attack it's aiming to kill you and nothing apart from wounding it will change its mind.

Also the noises they make, fucking terrifying when you are on a mountainside in the evening.

>only shots delivered at a perpendicular angle
I don't think you understand what a glancing shot is.

>Really, do you think that they meant one of the other .357s?
Do you not understand the difference between what's meant by larger than a certain caliber and larger than a certain cartridge?

>9mm, .40, and .45 acp JHP is perfectly adequate despite my only cited source saying the opposite
Are you actually retarded or just pretending to be?

10 M M
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If its a charging bear, you cant really have a bullet "too big,"

Just make sure you hit it, and can fire more when it doesnt slow the thing down.