GERMANY REJECTS F-35

They can’t afford rifles.

>doesn't want to buy F-35s because they're too expensive and American global politics are icky
>speculates that they might buy F18s
Why the fuck wouldn't they just buy Gripens?

Because fuck drumpf

Honest, it's probably because Germoneys mission set doesn't require something like the Tornado to be replaced by the most advanced multi-role fighter on the planet. They could probably get some sweet block 50 F-16's that would complement their current arsenal without tremendous cost.

*block 60

The Lockheed shill cries out in pain as he overcharges you for maintenance contracts

How many operational eurofighters do you have, hans?
>3.13%

without criticising the F-35, isn't it literally the first word in 5th generation fighter tech?

How many decades behind is the F-35's production schedule at this point? Two? They were supposed to be already phasing in it's second models by now by the roadmap put forth at it's inception.

its shit. Its a cheap version of an f22 designed for export. Expensive to use an maintain, range is shit, makes the dependent on USA.
why the fuck would the richest nation int he EU buy this crap? Germans invented fighter jets why not make their own?

its brand new tech, there has never been such a massive leap of including such brand new technologies into a fighter aircraft.

what matters is they have gotten as far as they have without any real hiccups that would scar its reputation.

there was an old saying that supposedly came from a pilot that mentioned that you never should fly the A version of any aircraft, so far the F-35 has proved that saying wrong. since it's inception has had no catastrophic failures that have cost the life of the pilot or the machine. as a matter of fact the only F-35 loss from what i recall seeing was due to a ground fire.

Apt description of the PAK-FA user

its 3,5,4 for the A,B,C respectively
they were supposed to be running at 120 aircraft per year for all but 1 of those years each

6 of those bad boys flew over my head today!

>Germans invented fighter jets
The U.S. took those guys after the war.

In 12 years of flying there has been 1 crash and no pilot fatalities.

The pak fa is more like fun foiled.

yup what $107 million can do for africans with 60 iq's

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Why do you fucks never post article links? Do I have to post one of those wojacks where the brain is missing in an unlikely but hilariously-depicted way?

>Gets cucked by USA
>buy from USA
oh no no no
telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/27/nato-members-increase-defence-spending-100-billion-donald-trump/

EU us developing a 6th gen fighter with blackjack and hookers. F-35 will be outdated within 10 years

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>F-35 will be outdated within 10 years
>implying 6th gen is coming out in 10 years
no

I'm fairly certain that if we let the Kraut do their own plane now, hilarity will ensue

Also they have weird fantasies about starting another world war and don't want the same equipment as everyone else.

They probably have the idea in their heads that they're to co-develop something with France using their own domestic firms.

Just a reminder this is the country who bought F-104s for low level, bad weather strike interdiction.

That's the plan
But I'm curious to see how will the Kraut react when they'll see all the hoops this new plane will have to get through to carry the frog future nuclear deterrent. Because it will definitely be a big chunky boi

they are making a new one with the frogs thats why
/thread

This is a country that bought the F-104 and used it in a ground attack role.

It's literally Weimar but far worse.

This, its just germany being retarded and generally not giving a shit about the efficacy of their military as per usual

>Lockheed advertises it as multi role fighter
>lol that's your fault xD

What about the Airbus FCAS?

>Already before commissioning, attempts were made to remedy serious shortcomings that occurred during the prototypes. In addition, the prototypes of the German version got a reinforced hull, a different engine and a completely revised navigation equipment , which made the machine heavier and more complicated. Although it had to be clear from the outset that one spent a lot of money here on an aircraft that was not really mature, the F-104G (G for "Germany") finally came to order.

>The commissioning of the first F-104G in February 1960 revealed blatant shortcomings in terms of manufacturing quality and elementary functions. The deficiencies were partly due to design flaws, some could never be resolved throughout the life of the Starfighter.

>The first thing you noticed was that some instruments in the cockpit were not functional. This was complained and later also fixed. On February 21, 1962, Lieutenant Schultz transferred the first F-104F to fighter-bomber squadron 31 "Boelcke" to the airbase Nörvenich . On May 22, the failure of the afterburner caused the first fatal accident in Germany. Also before it had come in test operation to engine failures and a breakage of the nose gear , which was based on a lack of design.

>By June 1962, enough F-104 had been procured to form the first squadron . On this occasion, a ceremony and a flying day with aerobatic performances of an F-104F relay with four aircraft were scheduled to take place in Nörvenich on June 20th . On 19 June 1962, one day before the scheduled event, it came due to a pilot error to crash the four F-104 , in which all four pilots of the aerobatic team were killed. [6] This was the second fatal accident involving Starfighters in Germany within a few weeks. The air show scheduled for June 20 has been canceled. Nevertheless, took place on June 20, the official commissioning of the F-104G in the squadron "Boelcke".

In this new era of globalization and peace, Reichstag should choose the more capable Shenyang FC-31 instead. Unlike inferior F-35 with one engine, FC-31 got two quantum engine to increase pilot survivability and more power. A full stealth quantum coating. Plus ingenuity Chinese invention could keep it well beyond 2030s.

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>Meanwhile the F-104 was losing interest in the United States, the German aviation was looking for a multi-role combat aircraft and and interceptor of foreign design to be used in support of its air defense missile network . [49] Lockheed reworked the Starfighter to convert it from an operational interceptor only with favorable weather to ground attack aircraft , reconnaissance and interception every-time, presenting the result as F-104G from the initial of "Germany".
>Usage of the F-104 in non favourable weather (rain, cloudy, stronger wind or cold) resulted in a failure of the jet, it's engine and electronics . [51]

scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2127796/china-talks-sale-jet-engine-technology-germany
Might be true.

Germany and France should be the leaders of Europeon defence. The fact they are cheaping out says a lot about where their commitments lie.

>Why does the richest nation in the EU deny itself the last word in 5th generation fighter tech?
Because having a plane that can be remotely shutdown by the seller is a bad idea, especially when seller tells that you're not that important partner at all.

They barely have enough ammo for practice in their infantry guns

Doesn't change the fact the f-35 is the best fighter you can buy. And everyone else is at least a decade or more behind.

>Not just developing domestically
It's a known fact that Merkel kills off the German industry but Jesus Christ it's not like they can't take their companies out of airbus.

>Doesn't change the fact the f-35 is the best fighter you can buy.
They tried "the best" approach in a last war, didn't work out. "The most cost-effective" works better. And since their own machine will be used to make jobs in Germany and support German manufactures it's better.

>used to make jobs in Germany and support German manufactures it's better.
>German politicians
>Supporting Germans
Yeah kek

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>Until 2025
So they'll take the F-35 because at that point the AfD will be the largest party.

I doubt germany is willing to spend 50 billion plus on coming up with their own design. They could jump on Turkeys 5th gen program that actually seems to be running responsibly smooth.

The best approach has worked pretty well for America from gulf war till now.

Caveat Emptor

Because they have a huge number of ex cold war and just civilian runways they don't need the gimpage that is STOL form factor. Also this is a replacement Tornado remember - 2 seats. Relatively easy to build an F22 clone in the next 10 years.

The F-35A isn't "gimped" for STOVL, and 2 seat aircraft existed because the workload on the pilot used to be too high. No longer the case thanks to advancements in technology and sensor fusion.

cost effective is relative considering the amount of violence and destruction in post 1943 war means you aren't going to come up with a new design and develop it to general production in the tempo of a modern war. get the best stuff you can afford, and the war will probably be over when it has all been destroyed, so you don't have to worry about manufacturing it domestically during wartime.

>we does a country that started to develop a 6th gen aircraft rejects a 5th gen aircraft?

You literally described a Soviet approach.

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and this time in english?

Easy to read for me

When Australia bought super hornets a few years back they went with all twin seats after finding that having one dude focus on flying and another dude focussed on everything else is way more effective and allows for better situational awareness.

>one word got out wrong due to t9 shit
>seeths like a mutt

Goddman those are some sexy airplanes

Because F-18E/Fs lack those advancements. They're decades old.

It's Germany. Who the fuck knows what they are thinking. They have no coherent defense strategy.

they were wrong about a lot of stuff but that is not one of them. Also that picture would be more poignant if I didn't live 5 minutes from the boneyard.

Better situational awareness comes from a computer doing a better job than a wizzop could ever do, especially with DAS. Super Hornets aren't equipped with that technology.

that is just stupid as fuck for so many reasons

australia DOESNT need to to have any reasonably good situational awareness because they simply wont be able to hold china in a hypothetical invasion

second of all who are we kidding here?the f35 mcm runs at 650 mhz a fucking 650mhz
for comparison the mcm at f22 runs at 500mhz and its a fucking mess on a saturated theater without the computational power of an awacs
to think that f35 with just 150mhz will be able to fix this problem is a joke
the f35 wasnt made for countries that their enemies can saturate their airspace with a fucking zerg of airplanes and practicly zero awacs coverage
and oh boy did they fucking choose the worst awacs possible for their country...
and the worst part to this is their awacs are based on the south its barely in its maximum ferry range from darwin

brainwash 3 generations to be good boys and then get upset that they became the best boys, combined with german efficiency and arrogance

They are THAT crazy about diversity?

But you're talking about France

>australia DOESNT need to to have any reasonably good situational awareness because they simply wont be able to hold china in a hypothetical invasion

So you don't know a single thing about deterrence.

Because of bribery

Because politics.
1. We aren't looking at a next generation bomber, we are looking at a stopgap measure until the new one is developed
2. Because of politics Ursula von der Leyen and Merkel promised the French we would do Eurofighter 2.0 with them instead of buying American for our next generation fighter - which again, is a different project than what the Tornado was. At this point we are purely looking at a nuke delivery platform.
3. Certifying the Eurofighter is not an option: USA wants all the patents and basically wants the rights to the plane of they are to certify it for dropped nukes.
4. Cost. F-35 would have been so expensive that it would endanger the FCAS (future combat air system) program. The thing with the French, which is supposed to be more advanced than the F-35 and not expected before 2035.
5. The reason we didn't want F-18s is similar: the air frame is very sturdy and comes with a 10x the lifespan of a tornado: it limits our options of getting a "real" next gen bomber since there will be tons of hours on the F-18s left
6. The reason the former Chief of the Air Force had to resign was because he publicly said he wanted the F-35.

tl;dr:
The Air force wanted F-35s but they got canned because of politics, mostly because the women in power had a hard on for Macaron.

t. former Air Force HQ

It’s not that expensive dude, an euro fighter is more pricey.

> Be Soviet puppet

> Receive more advanced and reliable fighters than the corrupt Wessies

Seriously, in a vacuum, considering that the DDR got his 21s in the early 60ies, how would have they managed against the Starfighters?

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FUCK OFF WITH YOUR GRIPEN FETISH, FAG

We're not rich. We just have a high GDP.
Also the government doesn't give a shit about the army.
Germany doesn't invest into the army and doesn't pay the 2% of GDP required by NATO and instead pumps the money into the economy and military research, which generates more money since the fruits of the research sell very well.
Trump is right about Germany being on the border of just using the NATO to save money on defence at this point.
Since the US now pushed for bigger investments over the last years, the rusty gears start to move again.
I personally heard many stories from insiders telling me just how desolate the state of the equipment is.

That aside, the title of the OP pic suggests that the Tornado is the main fighter, which is incorrect since more Eurofighters than Tornados are in service already.

The F-104s would be no show. The Starfighters would have cut open all the ground crew, so no one can do maintenance.

Truth, sadly.

>t. German

It would be hard pressed to intecept one because of its speed. F-104-chan likes to go fast in a straight line, it does not like turning.

In both cases with either plane on offense, an engagement would have been very swift: Both get to launch their missiles with the F-104 having the edge on range because of it's speed. There would not be a dogfight.

Read this:
t. Insider

Having a NATO member buy some top tier Chinese jets might actually be strategically valuable for the west. We should maybe try to get our hands on a few PAK-FA's as well, so that we have a more complete understanding of the best planes our enemies can throw at us

yeah....that ain't gonna happen.

Because russia or china would sell planes to the west?

America could have won the wars in the ME with biplanes and a guy sitting on the tail lobbing hand grenades. The quality of an air force needs only to be better than its opponents. Neither ISIS nor Taliban has air assets and the five Migs Saddam was able to get airborne distinguished themselves by the pilots hitting Eject at the first sight of an enemy.

How exactly is China supposed to get enough troops, weapons and supplies across South east Asia to take Australia? Rommels entire afrika Corp couldn't kick us out of one tiny village in Libya. The chinks won't stand a chance trying to defend continent long supply lines while we hold the home field advantage.
Especially since a good chunk of those supplies will be used simply keeping thier soldiers alive while they try to march through northern Queensland.

Germany still remembers F-104 and the bribery involved in that fiasco and have been kicking out high ranking staff that were blantantly shilling for Lockheed yet again. How about try to win a competition next time with the capabilities of the plane instead of blackmail/bribery/political arm twisting

We know how Germany thinking. It's exactly like how America is thinking. "Build what we need in our own factories and keep millions of our own people with jobs and our politicians with fat reelection budgets thanks to happy manufacturer donations."

Ahem. "Tobruk".

This, but they also don't want to admit that the Eurofighter is inadequate for modern air combat. They cling to the "kills" it's gotten on 15s and 16s in training exercises and insist that their aircraft isn't outdated.

Germany also clings to the idea that the US will always be there to back up their air defense network. They think that, if the worst happened, we'd not only be there to back them up, but that we would relay sensitive battlefield intel from the 35 to their own pilots (hint, fat fucking chance).

grippen 39C = best plane for Europe and it's 30m less than an f-35 or the Eurofighter.

It carries all the bombs, the new cockpit is the best in class, it does all the imaging stuff the f-35 does, it's extremely maneuverable and it's made in Europe by Europeans. The only relevant f-35 is the B model because it's the only one with exclusive capabilities, but European nations are only getting the A model so it really doesn't matter.
According to the Israeli's all current stealth tech is going to be obsolete within 10 years, and given that Europe, unlike the US, only operates in uncontested airspace there is no need for stealth anyway.

For Europe, the Grippen is the most cost effective plane on the market right now. I don't hate the f-35, I just hate the lobbying system and the career politicians that have transferred millions upon millions of public funds to the Americans when there was a more effective European solution

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We need that money for refugees.
Also what would we even do with it?
Last time we bombed a few fuel trucks the commanding officer bought it and this whole leftist shithole shrieked like a madwoman

Meine Güte. Flintenuschi muss weg.

Not accusing you of defending this, but:

>4. Cost. F-35 would have been so expensive that it would endanger the FCAS (future combat air system) program. The thing with the French, which is supposed to be more advanced than the F-35 and not expected before 2035.

This is beyond retarded. The next 16 years of aviation technology will result in the 6th generation fighter. Simply trying to build a "better" F-35 isn't good enough. By the time a "Eurofighter 2.0" is able to go into production, there will either be a manned fighter to outperform the F-22 or we will be making the full transition into unmanned fighter craft.

Germany and France are fucking retarded for ignoring the sun on the horizon.