What are the point of shotguns? I'm a pro-gunner, absolutely love firearms. But i don't see the point of shotguns. And when i say that, i mean.. why use them? Wouldn't you be better off with an AR15? That's 30 rounds right there to disperse (or even more if you have extended mag and or drum) instead of lets say 7 shotgun rounds.
I saw Kel-Tecs new KS7 shotgun, it looks pretty cool. Slimmer version of the KSG and it looks like a space gun. It holds 12, which caught my attention.
They are a jack of all trades, master of none. Except for door breaching, which they are also masters at.
Dylan Ramirez
>They're cool >Hunting fowl >Sporting >Flechette rounds for breaching and barrier destruction >Specialty rounds such as flares >More effective than a rifle in CQB agains unarmored targets
Adrian Richardson
Birds dumbass.
Jordan Murphy
>A Joint Service Combat Shotgun Program report on the lethality of shotguns in war states, in support of the use of the shotgun in warfare, "the probability of hitting a man-sized target with a shotgun was superior to that of all other weapons", and goes on to support this with statistics compiled by the British from the conflict in Borneo in the 1960s.
>The buckshot typically used in a combat shotgun spreads out to a greater or lesser degree depending on the barrel choke, and can be effective at ranges as far as 70 m (75 yards). The delivery of the large number of projectiles simultaneously makes the shotgun the most effective short range weapon commonly used, with a hit probability 45% greater than a sub-machine gun (5-round burst), and twice as great as an assault rifle (3-round burst).[2] While each pellet is only roughly as effective as a small caliber handgun round, and offers very poor penetration against an armored target, the multiple projectiles increases the likelihood of one or more peripheral wounds.
stolen from wikipedia
William White
Do you understand what a shotgun round is? A buckshot round shoots 8 or 9 pellets at 1200 FPS. Each pellet is .33 inches and can kill out to 100 yards easily unlike what video games are like. If you have a shotgun with only five buck shot rounds in it (mine has a 8+1 capacity) you have about 40 projectiles. Shotguns are devastating.
Sebastian Stewart
In a world with no ROE, a short-barreled, semi auto, mag fed shotgun is the ultimate CQC weapon. However, modern militaries can't afford the potential collateral from clearing buildings with shotguns
Xavier Williams
Excuse me, it holds 7.
and well that's sort of a turn off
Sebastian Hill
Birds don't exist dumbass
Nathan Williams
>hurr durr birds dumbass
yes for hunting, i already knew they were good. look in the picture retarf
Wow. That's pretty crazy, i could see shotguns being deadly accurate. Sounds pretty good to me
I suppose your right. That's quite fucking insane
Anthony Cox
This.
Jonathan Powell
Even more useful, as shotguns are great for taking out flying drones
Josiah Gray
Are you just finding out what a shotgun is?
Alexander Edwards
He's 14 give him a break.
Colton Smith
This thread again... and again... and again... and again... and again...
Chase Lopez
i'm not much into details when it comes to firearms, i still have yet to learn such things. but i've been shooting, i know how to use an AR and other rifles. I enjoyed it of course, and only have shot a shotgun once. with slugs, that's it. i'm on Jow Forums to learn kiddo
>I'm a pro-gunner, absolutely love firearms. But i don't see the point of shotguns. And when i say that, i mean.. why use them? Wouldn't you be better off with an AR15? That's 30 rounds right there to disperse (or even more if you have extended mag and or drum) instead of lets say 7 shotgun rounds. youtube.com/watch?v=CiHHgjaR0TI
>The Trench Gun >Master of one thing >Slaughtering people in an enclosed space >Germans feared this bad mother fucker so much they tried to make it’s use a war crime. Shotguns can cause psychological fear as well as effective close quarter slaughter machine. Also slam fire.
killing varmints/birds it excels at especially if you get a 3.5" 12g that can also handle target loads. It's okay for eastern hunting and self defense but their are better options. Combat shotguns are a meme but a good hunting length shotgun is nice to have qnd a requirement for shtf. If you had to it could do everything to a level. >3.5" 12g 00 is 18 pellets of 33 cal balls at 1200 fps
Dominic Mitchell
its literally a better man-stopper than your AR go do some research on foster slugs then go watch some taofledermaus your AR 556 will bounce off level iv plates while i'll punch right through with a tool steel dumbbell slug. and if i dont, i'll still knock the wearer on this ass.
Ayden White
>Germans feared this bad mother fucker so much they tried to make it’s use a war crime. yeah thats a meme so is the lee enfield dum dum meme. the germans were trying to deflect from the fact they were using mustard gas and willy pete
Kayden Hughes
This is nuts t b h. I have the 8 pellet loaded in my 590a1.
Paul out here memeing with the baby deer target. Pay attention to the pattern size & distribution compared to his average human body standing next to the target. At 50yd, damn near every pellet would have hit a man-sized target.
I would use my 590 over my AR for HD if I had more trigger time on it. Inside 50yd I can basically shoot somebody 16 times in two trigger pulls.
Bentley Rogers
lol, no i didn't.. retarf
Ian Bell
I've got 4bck loaded in mine. 27 pellets of suck
Wyatt Foster
Bought some 7/8 oz 2 3/4 slugs today. Avertised velocity of 1800 fps. If hits pretty much any part of your body, not only will it suck, but even if it didn't somehow kill you it would permanently cause bone/structural damage, and you'd be out of the fight for sure
Matthew Richardson
Literally every rifleman effectiveness program conduced since WWII concluded that most targets riflemen were engaging were momentary point targets and the best indicator of kill was the number of projectiles accurately fired on target. Shockingly the burstfire/duplex/whatever are less effective (within range) than 9ish pellets flung downrange towards the target
Asher Russell
What picture displays that you knew they were good for hunting?
David Martinez
Winchester 1889. I can tell already that you lack the desire to purchase an actual trench gun.
Grayson Miller
Drones, as this guy says. Also, those boston dynamics kill-bots. I don't know where to put 556 in one of those terminator fucks, and would rather put the shotty spray in the hands of the lord to guide at least one ball somewhere it needs to be to take it down.
Kayden Kelly
>military breaching doors. Literally the only thing
>civilian shooting birds, and giving rednecks something to feel proud about because being able to handle 12g recoil is apparently a major part of being a man
David Scott
In modern warfare, due to the likelyhood of armor and longer distances. The answer is no. It's not that good. For the everyday scenario in the life of a civilian (including cops) the answer is yes.
I expect to deal with beaners, nignogs, and white trash meth heads. They don't come with body armor and AR15s. And even if they did, it would be within 100 yards, and most likely within 21 yards if they're breaking into my home.
One shot stop high percentage, low over penetration with #4 buck, and the ability to quickly switch to a slug for precise work... Breddy gud
Landon Reyes
I just got a Mossberg 500 with a heat shield, you guys got any recommendations on good foregrips?
Liam Gray
I gave mine a wooden one for the aesthetic. I never tried pumping a shotgun with a foregrip like the one's you see in a tacticool AR. It honestly looks like it will just get in the way.
Charles Morgan
>But i don't see the point of shotguns. so you haven't used one before
shoot a 12 gauge for a day and watch how fast your mind changes from "wow who cares" to "holy shit we need more of this"
Think about all the caliber debates you see. 9mm vs 45. 40S&W vs 357. 380 vs lighting a fart on fire. Etc. They always boil down to what makes the bigger hole and kill the target the fastest.
A shotgun makes a lot large holes in a person. Or one extremely big one if you're using slugs.
They're short range, which is ideal in a home defense situation because you want to both kill the target and not kill something else 30 yards behind them behind some drywall like you could with a rifle. Even if your invader is wearing a vest (unlikely) he'll be on his ass with a few broken ribs.
tl;dr, Shotgun kills the everloving fuck out of anything 15 or so yards in front of you. Not many rooms/hallways are longer than that.
Noah Kelly
Your whole question is framed in the sense of anti-personnel use so ill keep it to that, framed in the sense of civilian use since this isn't a LEO or military forum.
>30 rounds right there to disperse Not a thing. In any realistic civilian encounter a rifle will end the situation in 3-4 rounds. The increased capacity is simply not a factor, particularly for a shotgun, 6-9 rounds of buckshot is more than adequate. >armor Its occasionally a thing, but so rare as to not be a pressing concern. That being said depending on where, when, and how you live this is probably the best reason for considering an intermediate carbine to be firmly superior to a shotgun. >effectiveness on target Simply said a 12g shotgun loaded with #1/00 buck is going to disrupt a larger area of organs and tissue than anything short of a magnum rifle round. Each of those pellets is going to go on its own spreading journey inside of a body at the exact same instant drastically increasing the odds of compromising the CNS or major blood vessels per trigger pull. Properly loaded shotguns tend to enjoy the top spot for "stopping power" at close distances for a reason. >forgiving of mediocre marksmanship Particularly at moderate but somewhat common self defense distances(ex 5-15yrds) while a shotgun certainly doesn't create a wall of lead like in video games it certainly does nicely pepper a chest sized area with multiple adequately penetrating projectiles. Connecting partially with a 7" zone of destruction on a baddies vitals is going to do as much good as a few handgun rounds to the boiler room if not better while being enormously easier to pull off in under pressure real life. Pulling off that on a moving target with a shotgun is a feat of mediocre marksmanship, while the latter would be the sort of thing reserved for the particularly well trained when under fire.
Jacob Murphy
You literally just air for the feet/legs. I was trained to aim for the "base" of the target because people typically don't wear groin/leg armor, and if you somehow miss the 00buck will skip off of surfaces like asphalt and concrete so you'll be able to disable another person
Grayson Howard
Because I want to be able to do this Fuck you and the horse you rode in on
what is it that makes them more effective than dumping rounds with an AR? stopping power? pellet spread with a wide choke?
Nathaniel Rivera
At the end of the day shotguns have more than adequate capacity, minimize the need for accuracy under stress more so than any other firearm, maximize the odds of you not needing to fire more than one round(reducing the odds of receiving any return fire) while also offering other fringe benefit like reduced risk of over penetration with certain loads. They're hardly perfect, but looking at them next to the other choices on the market it's hardly a surprise that they are perennially popular choice for close range defensive use.
Evan Myers
Oops, wrong thread Well can't go wrong with that gif anyway
Anthony Clark
See
Chase Lopez
Shut the fuck up, you German cuck.
Angel Hernandez
Shockingly? Barely anyone can hold on the same point of aim after the first recoil impulse hits them. What's shocking is that burst fire made it past any military trials.
Brayden Smith
>What are the point of shotguns? What's the point of making this stupid thread two times a week?
Colton Stewart
With slugs, a short barrel shotgun is the best option for defense against large predators
John Collins
They tried to fight Emu with rifles and machine guns >They lost.
Parker Rivera
>"I don't know anything" >calls people kiddo
OK kiddo
Ryder Taylor
>low over-penetration with #4 buck Is this supposed to be the tell that this whole post is memeage? Any round worth using is going to go through multiple interior walls with enough energy to kill. Hit your target and follow your firearm rules.
Ryan Russell
Should I buy a 590 or 590a1? Haven't been able to divine that yet
Gavin Cooper
Wait, do you actually not realize the #4 buck offers considerably lower penetration than 00, 5.56, or handgun rounds?
Aiden Wright
>it is impossible for a shotgun to shoot through an interior wall
nigger you can literally push your finger through drywall, have you ever been inside a house?
Grayson Hughes
not him, but anything worth using is gonna go through like 10 sheets of drywall >tfw ameristani home construction is fucking garbage and yet housing prices are abominable
Nicholas Gray
Shotguns can only be loaded with slugs and 00 buck. Anything else is a meme round or birdshot. This is how zoomers think.
Isaiah Butler
Do you use shotgun barrels as prybars? Do you slam watertight compartment doors on them? If so, the 590a1 was literally made for you. If not, it's a heavy piece of shit.
Bentley Wright
the fuck is with doom guys hair?
Jose Rodriguez
This light shotguns are THE BEST get shitted on, extended mag heavy barrel retards
Jaxon Johnson
it was the 90s and it was cool to shave designs into your hair
Leo Scott
#4 buckshot will go through drywall, easily. But it will go through less drywall than 00 buck. Do you even know what #4 buckshot is? It's not bird shot you noguns imbecile. Don't open your mouth and call others stupid if you don't even know basic firearm information.
What about recoil mitigation? My shotgun will never be carried, just lays next to my bed for HD. In which chase the heavy barrel, extended mag, can only help with recoil and more ammo on tap.
Carson Thompson
lurk moar faggot
Carson Morales
is that really a problem with slow-firing manual actions? I guess it might make it more comfortable to shoot, but I'm p sure you can just get used to it. 12ga isn't that bad so long as the stock is decent.
Gabriel Peterson
>recoil personally I don't see much difference when you're already using some peppy HD buckshot, the trade is having a more handy, pointable gun >more ammo 4+1 is the whole b-ball team if you have to reload after 5 shots you might have bigger problems
Nathaniel James
everyone was trying to distract the heinous war crimes they were committing. shit was fucked bro.
Oliver Morales
Get a Surefire grip. Worth the $$$
Thomas Rodriguez
Not really a problem per say, you're right that by the time I pump a new shell in the recoil would be long gone, but it will still be a bit more pleasant and a bit faster. For innawoods though or planning on carrying a shotgun I definitely take the regular 500 barrel.
Grayson Walker
>it is impossible for a shotgun to shoot through an interior wall Nigger, that isn't what im saying at all, and you're fucking retarded for bringing it up like its relevant or something. >youtube.com/watch?v=CiHHgjaR0TI with a side of pic related. #4 is way better than 00 or typical handgun rounds in that respect. The argument of "any bullet that kill man go through drywall" is illogical and fucking tarded. At such a reductionist level it could literally be used to justify using AP 7.62x51 for HD sense that and 9mm ball both will go through drywall. Speaking realistically, some rounds have a CONSIDERABLY reduced lethality after encountering common home barriers when compared to others whether its 5.56 SP vs 7.62x51 ball or #4 buck vs 9mm ball. Shits basic physics, a projectile with a fraction of the mass will have waaay lower momentum and slow down quicker.
#4 buck went through a deer last season, deer around here tend to be thicker than humans at the chest cavity. If it goes through deer/human, why do you need it to continue going through other objects so you can consider it "appropriate?" Care to explain?
Cameron Edwards
You're trying to explain basic physics to a retard. He probably thought your post was TLTR and you're wasting your breath. Let #4 buck be the thinking man's secret.
Asher Ortiz
>youtube.com/watch?v=ie6dKLU_Bas Counter anecdote for you. >#4 buck went through a deer last season, deer around here tend to be thicker than humans at the chest cavity. If it goes through deer/human, why do you need it proofs? im not saying it's impossible but it runs counter to just about anything i've seen/heard on the subject. Hell, 00 is typically at least partially retained on broadside deer shots and i've heard much the same for OISs. Only 000 as far as im aware has a real reputation for reliably over penetrating baddies.
Charles Nguyen
if someone is taking cover behind a thick tree, even 5.56 can be deflected however, buckshot has a good chance of winging them in the limbs even if it doesnt penetrate the trunk
