Shotguns are obsolete

no u

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bait, man
come on

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Blunt force trauma can still fuck someone up.
Use smaller shot, aim a little higher, fucking riddle their face. They're dead and the only solution is to make thick facial armor standard issue (which reduces situation awareness of the enemy.)

Rifles are obsolete because plate armor.

>all militaries use Kevlar
>Kevlar covers all of the body
You’re retarded and it hurts

Solid Slugs

>AP Slug
>Fighting poor people in the Middle East/Africa
>Drone killer rounds

Talk to literally any Marine in Fallujah, and they’ll tell you the opposite

They were fighting shitskin third worlders in robes.

>Implying birdshot is used in combat

youtu.be/4mLrwMVULfU

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>gorilla warfare
I think a shotgun would be very effective against a Gorilla

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Half slugs, half dragon's breath, 100% fuck everything op said

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Smells like a chum bucket got left out in the sun for 2 days.

Slug doesn't penetrate soft armor or plates but according to physics the force isn't going anywhere. Try continue fighting with every single rib broken and drowning in your own blood.

People have this weird idea that vests and plates make you invulnerable to anything and everything.

Buckshot doesn't penetrate body armor either

>expecting dragonsbreath to do anything other than singe someone eyebrows
He fucking fell for the meme, hard

My deer slugs are 1 ounce traveling at 2000fps. Doesn't matter if it penetrates your stupid body armour yer gonna die from trauma.

you're right user, here's some duck hunting ammo

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Wypipo are obsolete too but you aren't about to jump into a dumpster

Nah. Shotguns are pretty useful.

>He doesn't mount a bayonet to his shotgun.

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>it's another "the only possible use for guns is combat even though I've never seen any actual combat myself" thread

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>obsolete
>lists at least two uses
You keep using that word...

Taking a 12 gauge to your chest plate is pretty much a guarantee you will be on your ass with broken ribs.

didn't realize everyone wears full Kevlar juggernaut suits everywhere user

What sling is that?

And, when was the last time we faced someone wearing kevlar? Not even the majority of China's troops are lucky enough to have a bulletproof vest.

wood looks good on the a1
used to have a set on mine, stuck it on a 500 instead
I have the 500 set up for hunting, so it fits the vibe
actually, the more I shoot the 500 w/ metal hardware (trigger assembly, etc), the more I like it over the a1

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Most people won’t be wearing Kevlar. Plus a shotgun slug will still hit like a sledgehammer against armor. Sure it didn’t pierce them but they have a broken chest cavity.

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You fags know basic physics right? Shotties lose energy much faster, ergo are ineffective

Okay retard, put on some kevlar and let someone shoot at you with a shotgun and see how you feel afterwards.

Yes, shotguns have a more niche role today but they aren't useless.

That's looks like a F2000 style sling very nice and aesthetic.

Go the fuck away no guns. There's semi auto magazine fed shotguns that have the same ergonomics of AKs and ARs (for the most part). Even if a target had chest, head and face protection there's still limbs and the groin.

Still pretty great in cqc.

If I wanted to shoot someone from far away I would use a battle rifle.

is this actually true? Like a slug or buckshot?

I need an AA-12 IRL but the Invictus Arms AA-12 looks super off model.

Specter gear sling.

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>hurr hurr due to tanks rifles are obsolete

They dont though. 7.62 vs even a slug not mentioning hauls is no contest

>Still pretty great in cqc.
Not the most common case in modern warfare and even then arguably worse choice

>not common in war
Yes. However, that doesn’t make them obsolete.

>7.62
Yeah, a nato round is better than a normal 12 gauge. However soldiers don’t use 7.62 they use .223. A shotgun will beat a .223 in close to mid ranges.

There's still a place for shotguns in a guerilla conflict, especially for civis engaging civis/irregulars. Even still, a conventional force still has plenty of use for them. If we're talking stateside, most people aren't going to have armor, and the capability to switch off from anti-riot to anti-commie is a useful asset.

That said, I'd recommend civis go the carbine route. It allows you to engage more effectively in a greater variety of circumstances. Plus it allows you to share ammunition and magazines with us.

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>Yes. However, that doesn’t make them obsolete.
It does though, they only fit for a very niche situation which is arguable.

>Yeah, a nato round is better than a normal 12 gauge. However soldiers don’t use 7.62 they use .223. A shotgun will beat a .223 in close to mid ranges.
Who said I was talking about nato? Who says soldiers around world use .223?

No, he's just retarded. If it was true every time someone fired a shotgun they would break their shoulder.

Plate armor is obsolete because muskets

1. The vast majority of dunecoons and niggers don't have kevlar
2. Shoot them in the pelvis anyway fucking retard

Seriously its should be SOP to shoot the pelvis/groin region if you suspect someone has a vest/plates. A shattered pelvis is a instant drop, and probably a permanent one if you hit them with multiple pellets of double ought buck.

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I feel like a 12 gauge slug would be great defense against gorillas. I get the proliferation of Kevlar causing issues for buckshot, but I have yet to see any gorillas utilizing them.

>shotguns won't work in guerilla warfare
>shotguns work against guerillas
>that doesn't count! I wasn't talking about guerillas!

This, and Trips confirmed. I don't think people realize how defenseless our dicks are. The war isn't going to be against dunecoons and blacks down the road, but this still applies.

Poor bait, but I'll bite.

Shotguns are more relevant than ever due to drones.

Thanks much nigga

And I guess shotguns lose all their power if somebody is more then ten feet away.

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why would you say a word like ergo with such a lukewarm IQ?

the fuck are you on about? If the target is far away then sure a rifle beats a shotgun.

That's actually a failure to stop drill for the m4
3 to the chest and the rest into the pelvis

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False, a 12ga slug or the .355 cal 00 buck people use is smaller and has more velocity then the recoiling gun.

Knives work on this basic principle. That's why we move metal molecules on the edge to a smaller row of molecules. Because the thinner the blade is, with more force means a better cut.

The slug or buck concentrates all the force imparted on it by the powder onto one area. A person who accepts a highly concentrated foot lbs on a small area of kevlar is most certainly going to have something crunchy in their chest.

U r tart

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>relegated to nigger defense and hunting
Oh so shotguns are more useful than LARPrifles. Good to know.

>improvised grenade launcher
>busting down locked doors
>good for guys walking point into a cqb encounter
>decent for wildlife defense
>more accepted in restrictive jurisdictions than rifles
>cheaper to manufacture
>people don't freak out as much when they see one with wooden furniture

I'll agree that it's very limited in modern combat, but it's not at the point of being useless just yet.

If you hit kevlar with buck or slug, that person is going to be fucked up. They're still getting all the impact of the projectiles. Look at what happens when people are hit with less lethal rounds, which are much lower speed.

Also that logic is still flawed. SAPIs can stop rifle rounds, and AP rounds for 5.56 aren't that common or even that effective. Does that make rifles obsolete as well?

Another good point is that all highspeed guys (SWAT, FBI highspeed dudes, SF, SEALs, Rangers, Tier 1) ALL train to shoot people in the face or pelvis when armor may be involved. Pelvic girdle shots are really good at immobilizing people, and there are a lot of blood vessles there as well.

Shotguns are very similar to subguns in their use in CQB. Instead of firing a burst, all your shots come per trigger pull. They're just a lot louder, bulkier and more awkward, but also give you breaching capabilities.

Also, Frag-12 rounds exist. In a conventional war with both sides using armor, I think they could be very useful in something like an AA12 or other box mag fed shotgun. Like turning a shotgunner into a mini grenadier.

The gun itself and the surface area of the buttstock absorbs and spreads out a lot of the force over an are. It's way different than that equal force only being spread out over the actual projectiles. I'm not sure what it would look like, but there are a lot of pictures and accounts of people being hit by 762x39 and feeling like they've been hit by a truck. Usually the person falls down (which is a lot different than being knocked down), and there's usually a really bad bruise, occasionally a broken rib.

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>If you hit kevlar with buck or slug, that person is going to be fucked up.
Youre going to hit lot less often
>Does that make rifles obsolete as well?
No, but rifle is more deadly at longer ranges and has more dakka than a shitty shotgun. Its easier to use and supply while being more effective in every scenario soldier might face.
>ALL train to shoot people in the face or pelvis when armor may be involved.
In modern combat, outside of executing farmers you dont have the luxury of careful shot placement
>but also give you breaching capabilities.
Id rather level the building. Id rather have 30 rounds instead of 8 or so. And like you said, shotguns are too bulky.
>Like turning a shotgunner into a mini grenadier.
Thats very very ineffective and retarded. Just give them a LAW and be done with it instead of ineffective weapon and ammunition

>Youre going to hit lot less often
What range?

>No, but rifle is more deadly at longer ranges and has more dakka than a shitty shotgun. Its easier to use and supply while being more effective in every scenario soldier might face.
Never said it wasn't. Rifles are king of general weapons.

>In modern combat, outside of executing farmers you dont have the luxury of careful shot placement
You only fight like how you train. I'm talking about professional ninjas, not you or me. Just stating how people who actually might have to deal with this kind of thing train.

>Id rather level the building. Id rather have 30 rounds instead of 8 or so. And like you said, shotguns are too bulky.
Plug someone twice inside a room with 00 buck and depending on what ammo you're using (let's assume 12 or 15 pellet, no pussy low recoil), you just shot that guy at least 20 to 30 times. With 5.56 you're going to be shooting at least 5 times, probably more. I have never kicked doors, but from what I have heard said by people who have, bad guys don't go down after 2 shots of 5.56. 2 shots of buckshot puts people down. FBI stats say 12 gauge is the closest round there is to a 1 shot stop.

Also, leveling a building is way different than breaching a door. At that point, why not just nuke it from orbit while sitting at home on your home planet? Xeno scum don't deserve boots on the ground.

>Thats very very ineffective and retarded. Just give them a LAW and be done with it instead of ineffective weapon and ammunition
If I was issued a shotgun and had a choice of carrying 5 pounds of Frag 12 ammo, or a single LAW, I would go with the Frag 12. Has a 9 foot radius, partnered with a good optic like one of the Eotechs used for 40mm but with a reticle meant for the Frag 12, it would be very useful in urban or dense wooded environments. It's still a different tool when compared to a LAW.

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As tools shotguns are still useful, As weapons there is usually a better weapon.
As a tool that can be used as a weapon, There is nothing better then the shotgun.
Shotguns might actually be the decedent of future infantry firearms as smart weapons and munitions continue development.

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>00 buck
>just one pellet hitting you in the face or arm
>combat ineffective or dead

This. Most people aren't John Rambo. Get hit anywhere and you're down.

Based

>The slug or buck concentrates all the force imparted on it by the powder onto one area.
Which is what both soft and hard armor is trying to reverse. Extremely soft armor will probably mostly only just prevent penetration but its still spreading the force over a larger area.

le breaks my ribs

Friendly reminder that American ribs are made out of drywall and will shatter even if hit by marshmallows out of a 12 gauge.

>and gorilla warfare
I don't know man when's the last time you saw one wearing body armor?

>modern warfare and even then arguably worse choice
Then argue your point faggot?

>In modern combat, outside of executing farmers you dont have the luxury of careful shot placement
>After all I the enlightened genius that I am know more than all the special ops listed.

real fucking nato energy - 2,400 ish
1oz slug energy - 3000 ish

youtu.be/o5f1Fo4r4_I?t=146

If you're wearing a plate you won't even notice it.

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>Due to kevlar shotguns are completely useless
How much are you willing to bet?

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No it's not. Oh hi Marc.

how do you wear shirt that tight and not feel self conscious

7.62x38r? Be specific, retard.

The germans called it a "warcrime" not because it killed efficiently but because it made removing the pellets unnecessarily cruel compared to normal bullets or even shrapnel and led to deaths far after the battle without infection or blood loss. Atleast thats what the great war channel told me. But that wont stop the literal unironic NPC response "but the germans used flamethrowers"

And a plate wouldn't spread out force? Get real.

When was the last time you had to shoot down a drone?

>Just because the cops would take 3-6 hours to arrive even after someone is already killed you don't need a gun to defend your family because when is the last time armed home intruders attacked you?

amazon is about to send drones with cameras flying over your airspace. if you dont wreck those wretched pieces of shit the second they violate the NAP you're a faggot and a cuck

Buy an anti-air drone from amazon to guard your airspace

>Rifles are obsolete because plate armor
>Plate armor is obsolete because Muskets
Rifles obsolete because muskets confirmed

hes wearing kevlar underneath

I really like the aesthetic of that armor carrier, is there a modern version?

Wouldn't it be embarrassing if the armor failed right there and then when the cameras are filming and theres a guy in the armor

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What? When has a drone ever attacked you? Are you an ISIS sand nigger?

The gong looks like a dick.

Lol. 5.56 NATO, 5.45 Russian, 5.8 Chinese, they all perform extremely similarly. Shotguns can absolutely compete. And all of the countries that still issue 7.62 service rifles aren't going to have extensive kevlar armor anyways, since they're still basically stuck in the first half of the 20th century

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Well, in that case I'll just shoot you an in your balls. If I miss I'll get one of your legs if not I just shot you in the balls. That's a win-win right there

>busting down locked doors
This.

t. Breacher during OIF