Not sure if this belongs to Jow Forums or /sci/, but why are stealth-planes often so edged and ugly?
Not sure if this belongs to Jow Forums or /sci/, but why are stealth-planes often so edged and ugly?
Jayden Adams
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Lincoln Watson
cos curves reflect radar
Cooper Davis
Because that's how you avoid radar signature. Not having surfaces for it to bounce off of.
Jason Richardson
the original F-117 looked very angled because the supercomputers of the time were not advanced enough to calculate curved surfaces properly
the reason for its faceted shape at all is to help deflect radar waves away from the source rather than bouncing them back
modern supercomputers are way more advanced, so they are able to make more curving shapes or gentler angles
allowing for some amount of stealth without compromising speed or maneuverability
Caleb Ross
The F-117 is fucking beautiful.
It's a shame we perfected stealth aerodynamics.
Imagine if all of our fighters and bombers had wicked polygonal shapes.
Ryder Martinez
>"He doesn't know about the Big Smooth"
Nicholas Nelson
The concept of Stealth has never been accurately portrayed. Gen-1 VLO was very narrowly band-defined in it's effectiveness, dictated almost exclusively by aspect variances with the radar illuminator and yet unaffected by such things a Photonic/Quantum radar theory, multistatics and other issues. It was NEVER what it was advertised to be, after the Desert Storm campaigns made the F-117 so famous: A 'One target, one bomber, one tanker' system. You still had to bring jammers and OCA and Weasels and decoys to the party and it really helped if there was a strike train that could seriously grab the threat's attention and keep it from being able to focus on ghosts in the darkness. Even so, twice, the /Iraqis/ (a Gen-2/3 level opponent, with a largely depleted military, on the edge of bankruptcy, after an 8 year war) nearly caught the Nighthawks. Once with a turbin-light style landing gear light affixed to an external fuel tank. And once through a clever bit of adhoc COMINT networking as a Nighthawk came off a tanker.
Andrew Allen
The British, using VHF/UHF surveillance radars on Type 42 Destroyers could and did track F-117s, out over the Gulf. And the Nighthawks themselves were such sensitive platform capabilities that they were based in the south-central part of Saudi Arabia, near the Red Sea, and thus required THREE tankings (and very long sortie evolutions) to get to the target. Now, look at Europe. I'm going to suggest Holocaust videos on Treblinka because it's what I know. That is the weather in the region. There are two bands of clouds at 3-5 and 17-20K and there is mist and rain and fog in daylight, in summer. During fall and spring, when Rasputitsya takes place, it rains /constantly/. In Winter, the overcast and weather is so bad that Ramstein airbase had an illuminated sign posted at the gate: "Snow, Sleet, Ice" as the three operative weather conditions. All because Europe, historically and by latitude, is a Temperate Rainforest. A literal swamp of trees and bogs. Still is in parts of Poland and The East. BY ITSELF, these two factors make the F-117 a critically mismatched weapons system to the role of long range interdiction of high value (Transport, C3, Logistics, IADS etc.) targets in a European setting because it means that the SALH based weapons system of the FLIR/DLIR is going to be non-functional for about 60% of the year (there was space and power reserved for an LPI radar on the jet but no GPS/INS bomb with glide kit was designed to exploit it), even if you believe the myth that, without SEAD rollback, the Nighthawk can penetrate.
Jonathan Sanchez
I completely agree.
Joshua Thomas
Its an artifact of the design process being done using 1960s or 70s supercomputers, which just did not have the flops to make the smooth curves seen on later stealth aircraft (e.g. B-2, F-22, F-35).
Jeremiah Phillips
>why are stealth-planes often so edged
Radar wave deflection
>and ugly?
Because you're a raging homosexual
Michael Adams
never heard something so crazy make so much sense. big if true.
Adam Hall
@40619017
Can't tell if bait or not
Either way you're dumb and smelly
Henry Carter
He's correct. Early radar math went public domain and a Russian formalized it for 2d surfaces. The Americans were already investigating RAM based stealth as well as RCS shaping, and their microelectronics could handle the math. The slavs never bothered because they were a land power and their computers were nowhere near good enough.
source: I read a lot of early documents and books on the F117's history
Landon Russell
Any books you'd recommend on the subject?
Ian Hall
Jaxson Fisher
A preoccupation with geometrics and straight lines is normally a symptom of autism. You are a prisoner of your deformed brain.
Owen Wood
Curved surfaces reflect radar. The F-117 is beautiful BTW
Jacob Green
Lurk moar
John Evans
>when you accidentally set the LOD 5 model as LOD 0 but nobody questions it so you pretend it's intentionally low-poly because "stealth technology"
>all the subsequent stealth plane models you release are high-poly and smooth and nobody thinks it's weird so you just roll with it
Ryder Price
>You are a prisoner of your deformed brain.
Aren't we all
Luke Price
Pretty much this. For anyone interested I can't recommend Ben Rich's memoirs, Skunkworks, enough.
It's a books worth of cool trivia about the f117, the blackbird, skunkworks, the stealth program, etc.
Noah Lee
>tfw diagnosed and couldn't agree more
Ian Baker
Why did they choose the flying wing layout for the F-117 and B-2?
Was it stealth? Or were they trying to maximize range, or something else?
Connor Nguyen
Why are you posting empty images?
Jaxson Howard
less control surfaces = less drag
also, it does help stealth, the less control surfaces = less opportunity for reflection of radar waves
and finally, payload (mostly fuel) can be stored in wings because the wing is now merely an extension of the fuselage
Jaxon Jenkins
you have shit taste.
Jose Ross
Doesn't the B-21 get rid of some of the B-2's smoothness due to more accurate calculations of an ideal surface?
Samuel Peterson
Maybe that's why they're still kept in unofficial reserve in case we ever needed them.
Also because the materials they're made out of are too difficult to scrap. They tried scrapping one, but the only thing they could use the scrap for... is repairing other F-117s.
Andrew Davis
that's all tech and no longer works. Next stage was using rubber material that absorbed radar but that's all tech too, next stage was onboard jammers that would absorb radar via electrically charging outer shell, but that too is now outdated tech. Who knows what they use now on Gen6
Thomas Lopez
>So, it says here you have diagnosed autism, diagnosed by whom exactly?
>By an Anonymous on the weapons board of Jow Forums or 4channel respectively. I really like weapons, i hoard them at home.
>What?
>He made a comment about some pictures i liked and said people liking those must have autim.
>Security? SECURITY?
>The post was number 4-0-6-1-9-4-2-0, i remembered it. Hope it helps. I am good with rembering numbers
>Sir, would you please follow us?
>I cant, i am having a job interview right now.
>Just take him with you...now.
>*getting dragged out* The thread was about stealth planes, if you like to look it up...so are you contacting me...or should i contact you?...
Jason Turner
I expect it will be a breakthrough in plasma tech.
Zachary Foster
Preoccupation with signs of autism is a sign of autism.
Camden Butler
>why are stealth-planes often so edged and ugly?
>ugly
no
Dylan Murphy
>and their computers were nowhere near good enough.
Why do *merishit project so hard?
>The BESM-6 was widely used in USSR in the 1970s for various computation and control tasks. During the 1975 Apollo-Soyuz Test Project the processing of Soyuz orbit parameters was accomplished by a BESM-6 based system in 1 minute. The same computation for the Apollo was carried out by the American side in 30 minutes.[6]
en.wikipedia.org
Daniel Brown
>no longer works
It still works. It still reduces radar cross section just like it did back then, making detection more difticult. It's just that sensors have become better at picking out weak returns. Same with RAM. An F-35 uses both geometry and RAM, and as a consequence is much more difficult to detect than any other fighter.
Nathaniel Collins
How come Russians were too retarded to make good computers?
Even the Chinese can make better computers than Russia
Luis Clark
>Why do *merishit project so hard?
The Soviets never saw the massive processing revolution the rest did, that and while they were able to build certain specialized computers they really began to fall behind when it came to mass production. There's a reason the inside of the MiG-25 looked like a television, and it wasn't to make it EMP resistant.
Blake Morales
The Chinese are Asian, all of the insect races have an inherent +5 buff to Crafting:Microprocessor and Knowledge:Mathmatics. Vatniks are spec'd in high str low wis builds and just have shit like Poison Resistance.
Ian Jones
>How come Russians were too retarded to make good computers?
Engineers blamed the materials and metallurgy, metallurgy blamed the mines, the mines blamed their equipment suppliers.
Caleb Clark
>edged and ugly
First of all, 'merica!
Second of all, you misunderstand the purpose of VLO in general, and it's understandable as "stealth" is deliberately misrepresented by US manufacturers:
Any plane can avoid radar detection by flying nape-of-the-earth, but flying like that is slow, uses up more fuel and is hard for pilot to maintain for long periods of time.
So what VLO is designed to do, is to provide some of the protection from radar detection of flying nape of the earth, but while increasing the range, speed and loitering time of aircraft doing similar missions.
But what it's often touted as is a means to make SAM batteries cease to exist, but you basically have to use it like you would use regular aircraft doing nape of the earth missions, which is to say very carefully.
Leo Mitchell
KGB sequestered all micro-electronics technology, for much the same reason that there were attempts in the 90s by the NSA to treat algorithmic encryption as an "illicit weapons technology" on par with nuclear weapon that would be banned for foreign trade or civilian use.
James Cooper
Too bad this doesn't apply to BESM-6.
>There's a reason the inside of the MiG-25 looked like a television, and it wasn't to make it EMP resistant.
MiG-25RB had digital computer inside, memeing imbecile.
Lucas Diaz
>be retard armatad
>get things intentionally wrong so you can delude yourself that you are right
>look even more like a retard
>screech some insults like they change a thing, when getting reminded of that
and this shit has been going on for more than 4 years
Tyler Thompson
Xavier Taylor
*ech-hem*
Henry Morales
>smooth
Joseph Moore
On the next episode we will compare US and Chinese supercomputers by benchmarking two pocket calculators from those respective countries.
Mason Jackson
>Be amerishit
>Talk shit
>Get told
>Squeal like an ameribitch that you are
Justin Baker
Have you finally gone to a doctor?
Noah Rivera
>I-it doesn't count...
Squeal more.
Jack Robinson
Armatard, you can tell bullshit all you want that which only makes sense in your head, but thats about it. You are convincing no one with it, you aint even convincing anyone that should be on your side. That is how terrible you are as a whole.
In the end everyone knows you are full of shit and just have taken things out of context like so many times before, then looked at it from an angle that wasnt ment since you talked about it some time ago and now need to force it again on everyone.
Soviets were horrible when it came to computer development despite on a few single things.
Just look at the history of computing:
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
The absence of any soviet achievments in it is just plain overwhelming. I know what is coming now since you cant refute any of this: More insults and again viewing things from an angle that doesnt matter, so you can look right for a second, til it is tested by the slightest whiff and crumbles into the nothing it always had been.
Samuel Cook
Imagine living a life of an eternally squealing amerishit,
>Soviet academia still made notable contributions to computer science, such as Leonid Khachiyan's paper, "Polynomial Algorithms in Linear Programming".[81] The Elbrus-1, developed in 1978, implemented a two-issue out-of-order processor with register renaming and speculative execution; according to Keith Diefendorff, this was almost 15 years ahead of Western superscalar processors.[76]
en.wikipedia.org
Jeremiah Wood
And i am right again:
>I know what is coming now since you cant refute any of this: More insults and again viewing things from an angle that doesnt matter, so you can look right for a second, til it is tested by the slightest whiff and crumbles into the nothing it always had been.
en.wikipedia.org
>1970s
>By the early 1970s, the lack of common standards in peripherals and digital capacity led to a significant technological lag behind Western producers.
>Early 1980s
>The Soviet computer industry continued to stagnate through the 1980s.[4] As personal computers spread to offices and industries in the United States and most Western countries, the Soviet Union failed to keep up.[8] By 1989, there were over 200,000 computers in the country.[39] In 1984 the Soviet Union had about 300,000 trained programmers, but they did not have enough equipment to be productive.[40]
That is all you ever could do, do insult and be a retard.
Tell us why you are so obsessed with maintaining wrong images? Are you to insecure to face reality? Do you get panic attacks even thinking about it? You are not right, you are not some clever guy that shows everyone, you are just making a fool out of yourself and encouraging the image of the unreasonable russian fanatic.
Christian Thompson
that's a computer from 1975. the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. 16 years and they didn't have a better computer than the Americans.
Hunter Bell
nigger we're called burgers not amratards or whatever. If you're going to talk shit make sure you for your I's and cross your T's, otherwise you look like pic
Tyler Gonzalez
Armatard, your fake alternate personas only gotten worse over the years. Your slowly degenerating mental health is showing.
Luis Ross
>Do you get panic attacks even thinking about it?
Armaturd is getting those even when his nana plans to visit him, so he must get them a lot. Picture related.
Cooper Green
Couldn't agree more, even after all these years it still looks ridiculously sci-fi.
Samuel Thompson
>Ameribitch keeps squealing
To be expected.
theregister.co.uk
Liam Kelly
And i am right again.
>That is all you ever could do, do insult and be a retard.
You are under the self delusion, that replying rather random stuff would prove you right and it would speak for itself. It never does, not for me or everyone else including people you should be sharing your side.
Why do you hate russians so much, why do you want them to look like unreasonable idiots so much? If you are answering anything, then just answer that. No insults, one real answer for a change. If you otherwise want to show that russians and their fans are idiots, then just continue like ever.
Blake Phillips
why is the blackbird mostly curved then? designed without computer aid? genuine question
Xavier Bailey
the black bird was designed with slide rules
its also not super stealthy, which was a secondary concern compared to sheer speed, although it is abnormally stealthy for its size
they were willing to compromise on stealth if the decision came down to that or speed
Matthew Morales
The Blackbird had harder requirements for higher speed, also they were operating at noticeably higher heights, which helped through two factors: greater distance to any radar station, simply because they are 10km higher than other planes, also at that height, it is very unlikely to get get radars positioned there (other planes), so radar will basically only hit the downside of the plane, were it is pretty stealthy through the smoother forms.
Carson Murphy
also read that it outran the SAMs that were launched at the plane.
Sebastian Garcia
it has a cruising speed of mach 3, it can theoretically go higher but only for short bursts or else it will tear itself apart
no missile has even come close to hitting it in practice
modern missiles could technically hit the blackbird, they can reach mach 4
but its still not likely to happen in practice, due how short of a window you have to detect it
as well as the fact the missile has to accelerate and climb first from a stand still
its not as invincible as it was in the 80s, but it would still be difficult to kill today
Bentley Ross
Someone really likes those (you)’s
Christopher Gray
Cute!
Jordan Foster
fucking based big boss in UN Squadron
it's amazing to me how old all these fighters are, but we still pour billions into aerospace design boondoggles while using the upgraded old shit
Nolan Cruz
Easton Gray
>Be amerishit
>Talk shit
>Get told
>Squeal like an ameribitch that you are
First stealth aircraft were designed in the 70s, amerimbecile.
John Nelson
>often
[citation needed]
Cooper Jenkins
>Mach 3.5
en.wikipedia.org
>Mach 4
en.wikipedia.org
>Mach 4
en.wikipedia.org
>Mach 5+
en.wikipedia.org
>it has a cruising speed of mach 3
Lol, no, it had not. This piece of shit spent only something like one in 5 flight hours at Mach 3 and had crash rate of almost 40%.
Bentley White
>420
Christian Thomas
Calls the sr-71 a piece of shit. Russian rangeban when?
Nolan Miller
1968
en.wikipedia.org
0.418 MFLOPS
1967
en.wikipedia.org
36 MFLOPS
Only almost a hundred times slower. Impressive.
Kevin Nguyen
>virgin, expensive single piece production of 30-ish toothless recon plagued with technical issues that couldn't stop crashing and only remained in service because of politics
vs.
>Chad Thundercock with 1000+ units produced, roles ranging from interception and recon to high altitude bombing and SEAD, long service life, shot down 4th gen aircraft and outran 4gh gen aircraft missiles
William Moore
It's +5 to crafting small things due to their small Asian hands. Microprocessors just fall in that category.
Jews get an inherent +10 to barter skill.
Blacks get a passive +5 to Athletics skill.
Whites get +5 resistance to cold and +2 to knowledge checks.
Jace Mitchell
>Soviets suck at making and using computers
>manage to make a better one for a highly specific and limitative role
>WE WUZ STRONG
nigger
Jack Taylor
What was asked for:
>No insults, one real answer for a change.
>If you otherwise want to show that russians and their fans are idiots, then just continue like ever.
And then you just continue like ever.
EVERYONE LISTEN UP:
ARMATARD JUST CONFIRMED THAT HE BELIEVES RUSSIANS AND ALL THEIR FANS ARE IDIOTS.
Jaxson Brooks
Ill leave this here.
Owen White
Ahem.
You are wrong.
Nazis had it thought of before your eurotrash mind was formed.
Hunter Hughes
>my adult son, he is very smooth too
Josiah Stewart
That was pre computer generated low radar signature surfaces
Lincoln Clark
More accurately, the maths is all the same maths used in computer game light raycasting, so after the Quake 3 hack was discovered by ID the military radar stealth machines were able to better calculate how smooth to make a plane and keep it stealthy, obviously smooth planes were a thing before the invention of computers, but manufacturing techniques couldn't make them en masse easily.
Aaron Carter
This is the correct answer.
David Carter
Looked cool, flew like shit. Apparently sharp edges and facets are not very friendly to smooth airflow. The only thing that kept that thing in the air was the flight control computer.
Sebastian Diaz
That goes for any fighter/bomber these days.
B-2 is the same. The computer is constantly making yaw adjustments with the spoilerons since there is no tail.
There was a situation where a B-1 lost its computer. It was damn near uncontrollable. They almost lost the plane 5 or 6 times before they managed to land it.
Levi Baker
That’s true, but the F-117 was especially unstable because of the compromised aerodynamics. Relaxed stability is one thing, but the nighthawk would literally fall out of the sky if the computer stopped working.
Bentley Long
because they're shit.
Luke Ramirez
It wasn't that bad, it had human steerable yaw control and attitude/roll control and like the F-4 it had enough thrust in it's engines to compensate for most of its aerodynamic deficiencies... unless you tip the nose up too much too quickly and cut off air supply to the intakes.
Ethan Phillips
>This guy flies over your sandbar and smacks your country's ass, wyd?
Joseph Hill
You have hands on experience flying the F-117? It was notoriously unstable.
Mason Bailey
to bounce all the radar beams upwards .perpandicular surface = bounces EM beams right back = bigger radar return
Dylan Reyes
>Japan wants to partner with Northrop to revive that dead VF-23 project
>Northrop says they want to do the same just need approval for the current administration
>sources say Trump very likely to approve amid tensions with China
Why the VF-23 and not just buy the F35? Oh well who cares, we homo airforce now bros. If Japan wants to build their own fleet of MAV then more power to them.
Bentley Nguyen
>falling for CIA counter-intelligence
huehuehue
Kevin Young
>perfected stealth aerodynamics.
they are actually the exact opposite of aerodynamic
somebody please post the webm of an F117 falling out of the sky after it's engines cut out
falls like a fucking leaf
David Green
>Why the VF-23 and not just buy the F35?
The Japanese are buying a bunch of F-35's too
Charles Ramirez
>falls like a fucking leaf
That doesn't sound very violent.
Ryan Edwards
>falls like a fucking leaf