A question for some of the oldfags on here: does anyone else kinda miss the Soviet Union?
I mean sure, they were our enemy. They were filthy communists and they all deserved nuclear fire... but I miss them. I miss the excitement and fear of the Cold War, I miss our chest-beating, the constant vigilance for either side making a move on the other. Especially when the Cold War started getting hot again in the 80s, for a lot of people it really felt like war was finally coming.
But now they're gone. Shattered into a million pieces. Our old rival that we had so many fights with has been replaced with a crumbling collection of third world countries. Our once great military that stood as a giant aegis against the communist threat has been reduced to a collection of women, fatasses, fags and retards who spend billions of dollars to drop laser-guided bombs on illiterate goat fuckers in the desert.
Victory never tasted so sour. Cyкa блять, I miss the Soviets...
There are like three people who browse Jow Forums who were even alive when it existed
Lucas Powell
I guess I miss it too. The Soviets used to be this big scary monolithic monster that many people used to fear. Now we got fucking Vatniks to deal with.
Grayson Adams
There's probably a bit more than that, I know there's at least a couple guys in their 40s-50s on here
Robert Robinson
It's called a hyperbole
Nathaniel Butler
>does anyone else kinda miss the Soviet Union? Russian here, if you do you are a fucking retard. Also Belarus exists dipshit
Anthony Howard
Welcome to Jow Forums Enjoy your literal-minded no-fun-allowed crowd
I'm not sure what Belarus existing has to do with the Soviet Union dissolving in 1991. And I'm not saying I miss the Soviet Union because I wish I lived in that shithole, I'm just saying that I miss the rivalry. Chicoms are a shitty replacement for the Soviet Bear
Connor Allen
you fucking cunts never stopped fighting the cold war.
There was clear purpose then. Known antagonists. Now is uncertain. There is great anxiety in this. Even if the stakes of the cold war was apocalypse. The stakes were known and could be turned over in your head.
Also. At certain points during the coldwar efforts to defuse the situation and agree on treaties often tumbled into friendly behavior. There is icyness and indifference now.
Dominic Clark
bump
Michael Phillips
Look at the numbers of this supposed cold war continuation. Its not about what you could develop and invent. Who has how much forces in deployment right now? Who can mobilize these forces the quickest? China would be like a leaf in a hurricane.
Ethan Miller
Why would you bump a thread when the previous post was only 4 minutes old? You don't need your shitty thread to be on the front page constantly.
Caleb Ward
Sad to think those 6 ships on the dock there is the ENTIRE RUSSIAN PACIFIC NAVY. Like good god...
Camden Reed
We will return capitalist dog. As much as we hate each other, we miss the joys of war, and the fun can begin again.
Do a little research before running your mouth based on banter you read on a Tibetan manuscript illumination emporium.
Ian Hughes
The Cold War never ended, and China was the real enemy all along--the Soviets even tried to warn us as early as the 1960s. China is expanding their military influence and capabilities and already have us beat in cyber warfare and hypersonic missile tech. Their goal since 1949 has been to become the sole global hegemon by 2049--they're progressing ahead of schedule.
The fight never ended, we just got lazy and complacent on top.
I remember reading one of those illustrated magazines with Soviet weapon systems. It was from 1991 and there was stuff like VTOL supersonic jet, stealth fighter and so on. And it was said that soon soviets will have all of this in great numbers.
Adam Thomas
>Marxist backwater that couldn't even feed its people So all of them?
William Nguyen
A formidable enemy worthy of respect. Would be a welcome change from harassing goat fuckers and people who enslave their kids to sew up nikes.
Jayden Peterson
For example, from this magazine I learned that soviets had their own Space Shuttle and it already made flight to space, and second launch scheduled to 1992. But look like it never happened.
>a primarily continental power who relies primarily on their submarine service for naval power and has only one good port in the Pacific Ocean has a small fleet there Wow, who would have fucking thought?
William Barnes
kek, fair enough. China was especially bad at the time courtesy of Mao's Great Leap Forward. I have a Chinese friend whose relatives alive at that time ate dirt cookies for vitamins and to ease the pain of hunger as they do in Haiti today.
>'m not sure what Belarus existing has to do with the Soviet Union dissolving in 1991 if only you knew
Cameron Reyes
Please. You arent joking are you? Chinese communism en total had always been like the days when gorbachev was making purely tactical moves to reform communism by sporadic jumps between more capitalist policies and staunch communist policies. It was confused from the start like a less instantly terrible version of the khmer rouge.
Marx gave rise to more radical lenin. Lenin was the clear "hero". Stalin quietly perveted Lenin's policies and vision in the name of carrying out Lenin's will. And kruschev steadily backed off from stalinism. Etc. It was a more steady vision slowly perverted and changed. It wasnt "now we are going to destroy the entire past because i just thought of something". Not saying communism could work ever. But at least the soviets had some semblance of consistency.
Hudson Parker
The Cold War ended.
Chinkdom can't be compared to the Soviet Union because its not out to spread some universalist alternative world order to Western Liberal Capitalism. Its ultimate objective - as the old Empire it replaced- was to secure itself, and to make a buck. Let others play world police.
Ryan Perry
China has progressed past Maoism and morphed into a fascist Han ethnostate. Read more into the Sini-Soviet split and compare the Sino-Soviet friendship of the 1950s to the Sino-American friendship of the 1970s: they've been consistent.
As the old Polish joke goes: Guys sailing to Cape Town with coal and agricultural machines, return with cargo hold full of frozen meat. Guys sailing to Cuba with coal and ore return with cargo hold full off oranges and rum. Guys sailing to CCCP with cargo hold full of precious precise lathes return hitchhiking.
Asher Thomas
That's a horribly unfunny joke. I guess that's why it's Polish.
Jason Jackson
Are you fucking retarded, or have you not been paying attention to China? They're building additional aircraft carriers, which you only do if you're planning on exerting military influence overseas. They're buying up infrastructure, businesses, and land in Africa, South America, and everywhere else. They're not just trying to secure Qing Dynasty borders or whatever naïve bullshit you believe, they're building a global empire.
The great leap forward and how the chinese are still operating on a bastardized, hastily adopted, perestroika clone begs to differ.
Chase Peterson
>Soviets >gone They're not bleating on about the proletariat, but Russia is still there. Smaller, less competent, and more open about looting their people, but they're still there.
Matthew Morales
yes and? They are not going to "liberate" their trade partners because they literally trade with anyone friends or foes. The carriers are their to make sure that their partners are not liberated too. Imagine if the Chinese having a carrier battle group docked in Libya, the country would have not become a shithole like it is now. Plus, you mutts cannot blockade their trade route during a hypothetical war with such strong navy. Peace through strength baby.
I don't see how Mao's Great Leap Forward contradicts my claim that post-Mao China is a fascist Han ethnostate or my implication that their approach to playing Russians and Americans against each other has been consistent from 1949 up to this very day. It's also retarded to call the 1970s Den Xiaoping Reforms a clone of 1980s perestroika.
Jordan Phillips
Theyve been trying in fits and starts for decades. Look at the infrastructure theyve done in parts of africa that they have no control over today. You cant embrace communism and capitalist expansion at the same time. Communists are bad capitalists. They arent facist yet, personal freedoms havent been eased up on and where is nationalism and ethnic scapegoating typical of facism?
Lincoln Cruz
The game of politics is eternal one
Eli Gomez
China is more like pre WWII america. Doesn’t give a shit about anyone or alliances and just wants to make a buck
Dominic Nelson
China is fighting a war through more than just military might, which is less than 10% of a nation's strength in their estimation. The goal is to usurp the United States as the global hegemon and impose the values of a Chinese new world order upon the world: order over freedom, ethics over law, and elite governance over democracy and human rights. The goal is to avenge or “wipe clean” (xi xue) past foreign humiliations (Boxer Rebellion, Opium Wars, etc.).
China is as communist as best Korea is a People’s republic. You can actually pay someone to go to jail for you. How is that for free markets
Parker Cook
Don't worry, only oldfags understand.
Mason Wood
Did you forget to proofread before posting? I'm asking before I reply to a question you might not have been asking or a point you might not have been making.
Dominic Edwards
>(colorized)
Eli Foster
It's about more than just making a buck in the short term, they're trying to subjugate and colonize the world. They outspend the United States in foreign aid because they value influence and coalitions over capital.
Luke Evans
You can see the trees but not the forest. Im not contradicting your factual claim, im supporting my point that china's communist policy has been more chaotic and ad hoc than the soviets. The great leap forward wasnt a well measured idea present at the outset. Whereas the soviet's didnt change large pieces of their doctrine only small parts surrounding them until the bedrock of the doctrine was altered. The kulaks were the priveleged farmers, then the kulaks were anyone well off, then the kulaks were anyone doing slightly better than poor, then the kulaks were anybody not a party official who wasnt dirt poor, than the kulaks were anybody frustrated with the system, then the kulaks were anybody not enthusiastically parroting party dogma, then the kulaks were anybody not spying on their family, then the kulaks were anybody and everybody. Its emblematic of how soviet communism was warped not drastically but with slight adjustment. Maoism transitioning into han fascism is just a further piece of evidence of inability to exercise proper foresight. And if china had some devious overarching plan to play the soviets and US off of each other for their advantage; Theyve managed to alienate both without developing enough power to make that a safe move. Theyve been adapting to their environment and not controlling it like a 2nd world power should.
Christopher Bennett
They are but they are doing but by demonstrating their model works and the West is countering it by sabotaging their effort and hence the response. The correct strategy would have been recognizing their strength and used it as a motivation to innovate and advance further. But no, they decided to that the best way to confront them aggressively. Case in point ZTE: the US has clear advantage in silicone manufacturing and the Chinese are happily buying hundred of billions of dollar of chips to fuel their industry. With such advantage, the logical response would have been to keep selling them and use the profits to do more RD to widen the advantage. The Chinese did not even think of usurping that industry. But no, in your indefinite retardation, you imposed a ban on selling them the chips! What it did was to motivate them to usurp you in that industry and impair your own technical ability to do R&D because of lower profits. Enter the 5G race. You lost this one. Get over it. And no they didn't steal to dominance. Their RD is literally more than Eriksson and Nokia combined, and the results shows. The correct response is to use their tech and try to gain an advantage in 6G. Besides, 5G is just a tool. Use the superior tool to advance other industries. But no, your retarded response is to ask your allies to use shitty tech that is 1 year behind and more expensive. Understandably they all tell you to fuck off.
William Ward
It isnt free. It still operates around the government not with open complicity. Corruption is a key component of communism.
Aaron Wood
>Corruption is a key component of communism. >implying it's not a key component of any modern economic system
>They've managed to alienate both without developing enough power to make that a safe move. Really now? Because from my point of view and the point of view of top analysts like Dr. Michael Pillsbury, Fortress China is nigh unassailable to sufficient degree they're comfortable expanding their military force projection, and they reached that point by playing weak and cooperative to milk Soviet and then American technological and financial aid.
Noah King
>implying the Cold War ever ended
Russia just paused and switched flags. Same morons in charge 30 years ago are still on deck.
Brody James
Regardless, the point is that there is still a Cold War, a fight for dominance between East and West, and that OP is a faggot. It seems we agree on that.
yes but I feel like the West is not taking this seriously enough because "the chinks cannot innovate xD they cannot surpass us because without us there is nothing to steal :DDDD" and is doing a lot of retarded shit. And it pisses me off.
Tyler Howard
I always knew that chinks were based and redpilled.
We're already in a new cold war, one dominated by ulterior Jewish motives.
Julian Martin
Good. It should piss you off, and it should piss off everyone else in the West. We're in a deathbattle, and now we see the enemy say they're in a deathbattle. They know they're in a death battle. Only the spirit of knowing you're in a deathbattle will have you win. YOU WANTED A FIGHT, BETTER BELIEVE YOU'VE GOT ONE!
>Plus, you mutts cannot blockade their trade route during a hypothetical war with such strong navy Our Pacific Fleet is the size of China's entire Navy. If we really wanted to, your entire tin can fleet would be at the bottom of the ocean and US hunter-killers would be blasting away Chinese-flagged merchant vessels like it was going out of style
Angel Lee
I will fight china and rape their wifes with my cock!
That's older than the Soviet-American Cold War, friendo. There's a whole genre of self-help books over there purporting to teach chinamen to be more like jews.
Theyve made small grifts that havent panned out. Huawei and ZTE are at serious disadvantage now that the freeworld has cottoned onto them. the stealth information they stole looks like it cant be properly replicated. They make vague warnings towards the US about taiwan while the US just sails through the strait whenever. Major moves and achievments arent there. The soviets put sputnik into space that woke the US the fuck up. Soviets started building ICBM sites onto cuba and almost got away with it before the US discovered them. The soviets boomers had the US sweating bullets. The soviets for a time were at the forefront of the cold war and were clearly winning at points. China is struggling to even become comparable and the US is stamping out their tiny scams before china can turn it into something real. The cold war ended. Tensions with china are vague uneasiness not grappling with the mortality of the entire planet. At this pace china might one day surpass the US but my kids might have to deal with that when they have kids.
>Major moves and achievments arent there. They lead the world in hypersonic missile technology, cyber warfare, and they're doing some innovative things with UCAVs. They've stepped into Africa for cheap labor and resource extraction, effectively adopting the colonial empires the West abandoned with white guilt. They're the second largest economy in the world and they keep growing. It's not that they're not making moves that should make us sweat, it's that we've gotten complacent after generations of being the dominant world power.
Zachary Martin
Any significant difficulty is logistical in nature and requires abandoning other commitments. But it can be done with less expense than dealing with the japanese in ww2. The US couldve finished japan without the A bombs. The firebombing of tokyo gutted japan. Japan and the US had more comparable forces than china and the US have today. Japan had victories in the russo japanese war and Manchuria, japan even sank key components of the US navy at the outset and had superbattleships like the yamato lying in wait. China has nothing comparable. The US rolled up japan island by island. You're a fool if you assume the china of today is unassailable by the US military of today that's been swelled by decades of spending into the military industrial complex.
US could outproduce basically any 2 other great powers of WW2 combined. Not as much so today if we compare to China
Carson Evans
These arent very significant. But they arent reasons to be complacent. Societal reform needs to happen before significant growth can occur again. However the US can still make minor strides maybe enough to maintain lockstep with china if the proper people take office.
Elijah Scott
One rogue van full of ANFO right off that road and half those ships are gone. Ebin "base", Ivan.
Lucas Bailey
It doesnt need to, the US isnt lacking in assets at the moment. replacing war losses would require significant restructuring of all manufacturing. But it isnt apparent that the existing force built up and updated over the decades is in danger of significant losses. Also, the US has been practicing war nonstop since WW2, thats an important intangible that should be taken into account.
Henry Jackson
Your Pacific fleet is like 60% of your navy. And you are talking about the Chinese navy at this very moment and we both know you are not going to do shit while they will keep building up. The only use of this dick waving in the Pacific is to supply Xi with political capital to build up the PLAN even more and fill them with his people.
Blake Ward
Thank you.
Xavier Reyes
You're welcome. It's an excellent book, good enough I'll be buying a physical copy at some point.
Eli Roberts
>These arent very significant. Opinion discarded. >hypersonic missiles The only real defense against these is to strike first, their trajectories aren't predictable enough to be shot down like traditional ICBMs. >cyber warfare It's not significant that they have superior capabilities in industrial and military espionage and sabotage? >UCAVs Their Anjian (Dark Sword) UCAV in the works is, by Western industry estimates, going to be able to outperform any Western manned fighter.
Joshua Bell
>Your Pacific fleet is like 60% of your navy No, not even close.
Chase Taylor
>And you are talking about the Chinese navy at this very moment and we both know you are not going to do shit while they will keep building up. To be fair, the United States is constantly manufacturing submarines and carriers, as well as other naval vessels.
I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. Your point is that the US Navy is more than twice the size of the PLAN? Yes, I already knew that.
Cameron Campbell
yes?...
Landon Hall
The US Navy has over 5 times the tonnage of the Chinese Navy. It wouldn't even be a competition. The hilarious thing with vatniks and chicom shills is that you seem to compare shit just by the number of naval assets. The Iranian Navy is the third biggest navy in the world if you use that retarded logic because most of their "fleet" is literally just speed boats with RPGs on them. By tonnage and displacement the US Navy is larger than the next 9 biggest combined (Russia, China, the UK, India, Japan, France, Indonesia, Turkey, and Germany)
>The Iranian Navy is the third biggest navy in the world if you use that retarded logic because most of their "fleet" is literally just speed boats with RPGs on them. Where have I seen that before? infogalactic.com/info/Millennium_Challenge_2002
We've actually added considerably to this since this picture was made. More LCSs, subs, and plans for new DDGs.
Adam Adams
Oh yes. Light-speed motorcycles, Silkworm missile carrying canoes, a very legitimate war game.
Easton Foster
Are you seriously citing that clusterfuck of a "wargame" as proof the USN is incompetent or something? It was fucking cheating bullshit, plain and simple, as this user: said. They literally had motorcycles and shit going like 500 mph
Christian Taylor
This is valid, however it's worth noting that the discrepancy is intentional policy as China has set strategic preconditions for naval expansion. It will be interesting to see what happens as they ramp up production.
5 years later, it has become closer to twice as much.
BTW, if you just count ships. North Korea is #1 by far lmao.
Matthew Wright
My favorite part of MC02 were the Cessnas firing, again silkworm missiles.
Gavin Howard
op is a boomer
Christian Thomas
I was just quoting the Iranian RPGs on speedboats part of that post since it reminded me of the Red Team (Iran) missiles on speedboats and I thought it was funny. Chill the fuck out, go for a run or take your meds.
To me it seemed you were citing the Millennium Challenge as proof that Iran could win a naval war against the USN. Don't be such a sperg and be more clear next time
Jaxon Ward
>Don't be such a sperg and be more clear next time NO! You can't make me!
Oh hell yeah. I enlisted in 79, I figured my chances of going to war with the USSR were about even. The dogma back then was, they had the numbers and we had the tech edge. They built that monster battlecruiser, so Reagan said fuck it, reactivate the Iowas.
I remember docking at the Long Beach naval station, right across the pier from the New Jersey. Quarter mile away, you could see the Missouri finishing up its refurb. Quarter mile the other way, you could see the Iowa just starting its refurb. It really gave you a sense of national resolve. We were getting ready to fire some shells that weighed more than my VW, because by God, the only thing between civilization and the long night was the US military.
Then 3 things happened. The USSR collapsed, the internet became a thing, and 9/11 taught us that we weren’t universally loved by the rest of the world.
>Then 3 things happened. The USSR collapsed, the internet became a thing, and 9/11 taught us that we weren’t universally loved by the rest of the world. This. Shit changed a lot within 10 years.
Leo Nelson
china can stay united unlike ussr prob thanks to the han ethno state
Chase Collins
No, not at all.
I've seen the evils of that ideology first hand. It's something far more acute and hard hitting than I can put into words. It really is evil, properly evil. I remember visiting the Soviet Union as it began to collapse, having previously visited twice in the 1980s whilst things were still going strong on the surface. The mood hadn't changed. Despite a lot of the views in the west that they would suddenly become democratic capitalists, there were still a lot of people (I would say the majority) that carried on fearing the various secret police forces long after the Red Flag came down. They were that scared. You would have been too.
Being on BRIXMIS, and later working in a few non-Soviet COMECON states, made me privvy to a lot of things that really turned the stomach. The treatment of anyone that went against the dogma and many of those that were simply suspected of it, or just not liked, was beyond vicious. A small NATO unit in Belgium was tasked with briefing defectors and gaining information, and a lot of the reports from the 60s onward were revisited after the true scale of misery had come to light. Put simply, a lot of defectors were viewed as exaggerating or lying in an attempt to win over western security services. There were more than a few official apologies when it transpired that they were not.
