I think we can all agree that soldiers these days are expected to carry to much shit...

The optimum carry weight is roughly a third of a soldier's weight, and that's been the average load-out for troops throughout human history. Exceed that, and it starts taking a toll on the human body.

Im currently carrying more than that only in armor, guns and ammo. Im quite a manlet tho.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think there’s been multiple waves of veterans complaining about the “useless”shit they carried around in the field and how it fucked up their knees for no other reason than their CO’s demanding they take that shit with them. All programs aimed at decreasing the weight of their packs went south quick as brass was seeking a way to reduce weight of items and at the same time adding shit to their basic loadout which added to zero actual weight reduction.

The entire issue just seems like some retarded legacy decision where no one has taken it upon himself to say, we don’t need these niche shit or brought up the fact that there should be a logistics train to take care of it. Seeing troops out on a (combat) patrol in Afghanistan with these big ass packs really makes me wonder why anyone thinks that’s a good idea, counter intuitive to take all that shit with you while you’re supposed to be hadji-hunting.

From WW2 onward, soldiers have been expected to carry more and more shit until now its not unusual for guys to go out on patrol carrying over a hundred pounds of gear, get completely exhausted by a light jog when its time to hustle, and go home with the joints of men twice their age. It's absurd.

>Only batteries have gotten lighter.
yes but less effective meaning you too carry more
Like i said, light as fuck
this
Soldiers these dys carry their body weight in gear

It's cause no one wants to get screwed over PR wise cause the soldiers weren't carrying that one thing that they might use once in a blue moon.

Just follow the BEST in the ASIA Singapore example. Just hired some maid or slaves from shithole countries like Malayshit or Indog or Flip to carry all the weight.

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They are called camp followers.

They carry all that weight so it'd be a challenge.
Seriously though, if shit really got real, the troops would ditch all the gear they consider useless, regs or not. Being slow and perpetually exhausted kills.

Because smaller units spending more time isolated from the main force with less support.

Its fucking stupid.

>carry to much shit.
Because of pic related.

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what?

are u 12? or never served?

Cuz the dudes who tell everyone you have to carry 120 lbs of stupid shit literally everywhere you go haven't put on a rucksack in decades, and don't give a shit about your needs as long as they dot all their i's and cross all their t's and you have all 80 lbs of mandatory safety equipment so that when you get your brains splattered all over the sand by a goat farmer nobody gets sued

How much ammo do you carry? That must be like 20 lbs of ammo alone.

This.

>be me
>field op
>CO throws me a laser designator and pair of thermal binos.
>”Carry these user, they may come in handy against the OPFOR”
>they each weigh 15lbs
>”Hey Sir, you know we are fighting in double canopy, so aircraft won’t see the laser and the thermals are useless due to all the undergrowth being 6 ft tall?”
>“It’s for familiarity, so you can get used to it.”

I get his point, but I never used it to get familiar with it because they had no use in that environment. Instead I had 30 pounds of useless options and less room in my pack for batteries and chow.

Never been in the military, how much intel do they gather on a position, enemies, etc. before any kind of operation? Because if a scout just went around and took pictures of the perimeter I think that'd be pretty obvious that thermals wouldn't be useful.

I’m so angry that they misspelled Asian

Honestly, it’s probably saved more lives than it’s hurt. The battle of Takur Ghar comes to mind. A 5 day op all of a sudden now takes weeks, but they had the supplies needed to survive

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This

>I’m so angry that they misspelled Asian

"Association of Southeast Asian Nations" Fool!

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I usually carry 5 to 10 30-round 5.56 and three 9mm 15-round mags.

Im only 150lbs btw.

t. lazy, skinny Singaporean dog

>falling for the bait

Its not so much that soldiers require all that much more, it's that they have no effective way to make something else carry it like they did just a short while ago. Why is this? It's all because we stopped using mules without having anything to replace them. Now they are trying to make mechanized mules that are just louder, harder to maintainb and more expensive. There really is no point to this, because as out of date as using animals to carry equipment seems, there really is no disadvantage to it and it would be a great help to the military.

Can you refuse to wear armor or would you get in trouble?

Not an option, if you get killed without the ppe you were supposed to be wearing your family doesn’t get sgli and all that shit and then there’s an investigation into why you weren’t wearing that ppe

>The battle of Takur Ghar comes to mind.

That battle was such an unnecessary waste of life that it's not funny.

>LET'S LAND A CHINOOK FULL OF SEALS ON A MOUNTAIN AT NIGHT WITHOUT CHECKING TO MAKE SURE IT'S NOT FULL OF TALIBAN
>Also, fuck using seatbelts so no one falls out by accident

What were these idiots thinking?

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Why doesn't the goat herder need all this shit?

Because he knows he cant win so he doesnt bother bringing enough kit to try.
Firing off a few rounds is enough to please Allah.

>How is it in Vietnam or ww2 for example vets go o about their packs being heavy when they only carried the equivalent to a day sack.
To them it was heavy and if you would have made them carry what we carry today they would have taken it as hazing. Load bearing gear was not as good back then too so it would have felt heavier than it was.

My father was somewhat shocked when I told him that my knees and back hurt thanks to shit I lugged around, carrying 150-170 lbs of shit does that to people. To him having to carry 80 lbs worth of stuff was nightmarishly heavy, but it didn't leave him crippled.

>goat herder
He doesn't need more to fulfill his mission, and his CO only requires his prayers and devotion, both of which have same weight as crossed fingers.

Is this really that hard?

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>just have woman carry it
Lol

>They are called camp followers
What year is this?

>Entirely platoon wheeling their packs behind them like some massive pack of tourists
I'd pay to see that shit

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CAN YOU SMEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!

Part of the answer to that is that the goat herder doesn't try to cross to the other side of his country. He and his buddies are not more than two days' march away from home and they have herd shed with hidden supplies. If you was fighting in your own neighborhood you'd probably not bring a full invasion load on your shoulders either.

We also used to have 6 wheeled stuff movers, and forward bases with proper supplies and a bunch of other stuff. Doing the patrol shit is fucking stupid.

You'd be surprised how magazines with ammunition in them feels like an extra 15-20 lbs. I carried ten, and the ounces very quickly turn into pounds. Sooner or later, throwing on your IBA (w/e they have these days) feels like putting on a shirt.

We only broke out our rucks if we were moving to a COP, assault packs worked for anything else. Having trucks and tracks help a lot as well.

I can get so much dumber about this.

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>hey, we're an advanced mechanized assault force with all kinds of support, so we can bring an entire goddamn country of gear with us, but we'll just throw the extra shit in trucks and choppers so we don't march it on foot 1000mi
>awesome!
>hey, let's fight in a country with minimal road systems
>hey, let's remove air units and support structures and just leave the infantry and their gear behind
>hey, let's make them conduct foot patrols, but because we no longer have rear areas, they have to carry all the shit we'd put in conexs on their backs
>that's great sir! you'll get another star for this!

>and fuck wheelbarrows and handtrucks

ISR/SIGINT/HUMINT can only do so much.

The majority of what we did were security patrols, and just like Cops, we rolled over every single square foot assigned to our AOR.

Pic related shows really nothing, but we were scouting a train station that we raided a week later. Before the raid we set up a three-day, four man SKT on an adjacent building's roof, give as much up-to-date intel as we could observe. Found a VBIED factory, only time we called in fixed-wing CAS in the city (had to evacuate ten square blocks, EOD didn't have enough boom for the site.

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underrated

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The problem is that we strain the lower unit levels to conduct operations that are beyond their scope. Platoons are made to work within a company, and a company is considered to be the smallest element in a military that can take on independent operations. The reason why this is, is because unlike platoons, companies have not only their own organic logistics, they are also commonly tasked with logistical elements from their parent Battalion. If you were to conduct the same types of patrols in Afghanistan, but by and large on the company level. Infantry would mostly only walk around with their fighting load and maybe a little sustainment load, due to them not having to carry 20 plus magazines on their persons or carry enough MRE's and water and other supplies to last them multiple days. If they need a resupply, they simply call for it or have it pre planned during the OPORD from the company. From which the company either sends assets that already exist within the company itself, or sends Battalion level assets that were tasked to them to resupply said units in need of supplies.

Instead what we have, are Platoons of men stepping outside the wire carrying thousands of rounds of ammo on themselves and rucks weighing 60 to 90 pounds on their own, on top of that fighters already overloaded fighting load. COIN has really fucked up how our military works and operates.

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A bunch of Leopard 2?

those are clearly M60s

>COIN has really fucked up how our military works and operates.
Thats just the excuse.

>The majority of what we did were security patrols, and just like Cops, we rolled over every single square foot assigned to our AOR.
This is what I can't stand about our tactics in COIN. Does going on random dismounted and mounted patrols to only temporarily be in an area and then leave to go back to your COP actually achieve anything? Or are you nothing more than presenting yourself as a target for ambushes and IED's?

Its either that, or deploy 400,000 Americans in theater, and 120,000 American allies. Which is kind of hard with no ocean access port. We should have bullied Balochistan away and used Gwadar for our own means. And blasted our way to a nice, massive rail system through Afghanistan and Balochistan, but all technically under the Afghanistan flag.

The ultimate solution.

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I get what you are saying, concentrating on trouble areas is all we wanted to do. As I said in a thread yesterday, our BCO was a goddamn coward. He only cared about less casualties and doing the bare minimum. We wanted to make no-go-zones a go-ones no despite the cost. All of it hits sooner or later. We knew where hajj was, and we had to sneak about to try to engage them. Which only led to the misreadings of intelligence. We weren't allowed to patrol our MSR (that we were in charge of), so everytime we got engaged on that route, we called in the TIC as happening two blocks over. Just reinforced a bad situation and the incompetencies of our leadership.

That is supposed to be the job, and he wouldn't let us do it.

>Only batteries have gotten lighter.
Yeah but theyve gotten shitter. In the old days you carried one battery and it lasted forever. Now days a 152 radio will burn through 4+ batteries in a 24 hour period with constant use. You also need to carry amp kits, ground spikes and clark mast anntennas because the radios have fuck all power.

>Batteries gotten shitter
Kek nope. Batteries have gotten better in every way, electronics just were designed wrong. My phone has 6x more energy in its battery than my first phone (3310) yet it consumes 45x more power than phone from 1998, in civilian use that is completely fine but in .mil use it's unacceptable. My radio had games on it, GAMES, and 3g internet access, both unnecessary power hungry feature creeps that should never have left design phase.

.Mil gear should not be just milspec civ gear that has drawbacks of being designed for civ market.

>BOOK RIGHTS AND MOVIE DEAL

remember
>"light infantry"

>I'd pay to see that shit
pay up

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youtube.com/watch?v=to5OKjZsKRs
If we adopted this, I would be at a recruiting station right now.

funny enough, isn't this the point of the Big Dog robot? A mechanical pack mule to cart around additional equipment for soldiers?

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> combat load swells from 108 to 275
> cart breaks
better start humping, specialist

How much does that ammo weigh, assuming 10 5.56 and 3 9mm mags

Armour is a pain to live with, but it does stop you from dying if you catch a bullet to the plate. After you live in it for long enough it doesn't bother you, ammo, water and radio gear always weighs a lot though the latter is getting lighter over time as new stuff gets brought in

Close to 6kg. Add 4kg for the rifle, 1kg for the pistol, up to 15kg vest and up to 2kg helmet. Counting accesories.

That would be 28kg, lets make it 25 since we rounded everything up, so 55.1lbs.

So more than 1/3 of 150lbs.

Vest and helmet are level iv with side plates etc.

Consider also all the communications gear, night vision etc.

After all that you can start to count a couple grenades, first aid kit, some multitool, knife, heavy clothing, knee pads etc. And THEN we start with the backpack and/or camelback and all that.

>the only thing added to a soldiers kit since nam is their armor
and optics. and NVGs. and radios. And breaching tools. and EPW detainment shit.

Also armor is fucking heavy, especially if you're in a unit that makes you use all of it (collar, nutflap, daps, side plates)
>only batteries have gotten lighter
And now we have to carry more of them because now fucking everyone has a radio, NVGs, at least 1 weapon light/laser, and frequently an electronic optic. Plus you still need someone to carry the platoon CINCGARS with not less than 3 batteries, someone has to carry a camera, someone gets some form of satcomm, someone may have a laser designator....it's a fuckload of batteries.

rifles have gotten heavier too which is greater burden than a lot of people understand if youre carrying one all day especially if the forend is heavier affecting balance and acting as a lever against your arms at all times.
>aluminum rails
>IR laser
>flashlight
>optic
>proliferation of rifle mounted grenade launchers

Got one after I saw my chief wheeling all of his shit at my first JRTC. Best investment I ever made.

Basic load is 7 rifle mags plus 200rds for the SAWor 100rds for the 240 plus 2 smokes plus 2 frags. An AR mag is right at a pound, smokes are just under a pound, frags are a pound and a half, a porkchop is 6ish pounds, a belt of 7.62 is about 5lbs.

>boot
>winter, so there's the additional layers
>undies, thermals, uniform, kevlar, snow camo suit, rig.
>suddenly get the explosive urge to piss
>run to the side
>panic.exe
>two pairs of fucking gloves on
>five fucking layers to get to my dick
>eventually after thirty excruciating seconds, manage to reach my private
>have to guide him out like it's the fucking labyrinth of Knossos
>mfw my fucking dick is too small and cold to poke out through all the layers properly
>end up pissing all over my gloves and snow camo

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made me chuckle out loud
(k)? I'm racist now, right?

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We got a new SIGINT system and these fucks shilled out for rechargeable batteries. Now instead of using a battery and hucking it in the field, I gotta sign for 15 fucking batteries and bring them all back.

That's only true for the LC1 pattern ALICE packs which use steel frames. I have an LC2 which only ways about 1.2kg when empty

Damn, so it's probably what, 60-70kg of gear in total? Imagine how your feet must feel

We're way, way off on using bipedal robots effectively.

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Singaporeans aren't a race so its OK.

Lucky enough i almost dont have to do shit with the backpack on.

But just a morning of training (running and shooting mostly) with the rest of the stuff on can be exhausting. Even just standing still for a few hours is uncomfy af.

>thinking
That's against regulations.

My assault load (no backpack) hovered around 105lbs. Our mortar bitch was about 130lbs and our grenadiers were 120ish.

Question to military guys: are you allowed to take and use guns and other stuff from people you kill? Like firing an RPG or using grenades from some guy you just shot?

It better be a fucking emergency

I'm curious to know how much of the shit they make "light" infantry carry actually gets used on a regular basis, and how effective or necessary it is. Back in the old days of marching you had like two or three guys who carried all the shit you needed for like an 8-man campsite. So what the fuck are they shoving in these backpacks? Do you guys get satellite TV or something?

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What if you need to blow some cover and you have a rocket launcher right by your feet?

Not current military, but the consesus seem to be:
- allowed in the heat of battle if you have run out of ammo or weapon fails
- extremely hazardous as all your buddies will hear the enemy gun firing and shot first ask questions later
- after battle, all enemy guns are collected and brought to base. Partly to stop the enemy from returning later and picking it up, and partly to redistribute it to friendly local forces.
- can't bring anything home unless you have a receipt from the seller, a licence to own it at home, top brass policy being progun, and an understanding military mail service. If it isn't a black powder gun, you can pretty much forget it.

>be logistics
>try to impart the importance of role to fellows
>receive constant stream of liquid shit from dumbshits and "Cs-get-degrees" officers who cannot into warfare beyond hurr durr we makey go boom
>always have to be the "no" guy in the room when commanders come up with the hare-brained maneuvers
>first dept to get cut be/c nobody will stick their neck out for funding on anything that isn't OOOH SHINY private sector cronie contracts

This is the future you chose. Force logistics to be a priority, and it will be. Never underestimate the power of collective bitching

>pilot
>air temp is 100 degrees and sunny but the water we are flying over is 49 degrees
>rules mandate dry suits
>sweating and dizzy by th time I get to the aircraft and climb up the ladder
>45 minutes into the flight the air conditioning finically starts to make me feel normal again
>have to piss
>have to get dick out of underwear, long underwear, and through the waterproof zipper of dry suit as well as through torso harness
>can’t see what I’m doing because of all the survival gear
>get half the piss in the piddle pack and half all over my hands and cockpit
>the entire time trying to stay reasonably close to the rest of my formation

>Now days a 152 radio will burn through 4+ batteries in a 24 hour period with constant use
Depends on what batteries you're using, the condition of the batteries, and what conditions you're using them in.
t. Signaller

Single use shit like that probably okay in the heat of battle but you pretty much can't just grab an AK and run with it.

Also the current and recent conflicts you really don't want to be using enemy shit, it's almost always in horrible shape and I wouldn't trust it.

Interesting.