Chinese Warlords

I don't have any sources on warlords sadly, but there is a book called Kangzhan that tries to catalog the staggering variety of weapons and unit organizations China used in WW2. I don't know if you would be interested because many of the Warlord sections are just "none of this makes fucking sense onto the next gun". Like, he has to resort to doodles veterans made of the homebrew mortars and such they had. I just checked and unfortunately the publisher realized that selling the kindle version for $2 was a bit low.

Oh neat, what 40k guard regiment is this?

The one that dies a lot

Commissar on the field!

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>dies a lot but wins in the end
>gains mass experience
>become crack soldiers, master of light infantry tactics and night fighting
>rekts US heavy troops in Korea

Literally what happened.
In 40k terms, they would be literally the Tanith 1st

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link it you gay.

An example of a self-made mortar.

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Bump, this is cool shit

suppossedly capable of launching satchel charges.

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An extremely shitty time to be in China, but extremely interesting arms compositions.

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I would imagine there was at least some historical revision regarding this period during Mao's cultural revolution. While your burning all the old books and artwork you might as well burn the photos that reminded various villages that they were shooting at each other not thirty years before.

Bump for Wausers

DIY anti armor gun.

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more.

Not really how it works. The PRC and CCP always had an interest to show the warlord era as the Somalia shithole it was, so to legitimize the final victory of communism and their achievement of restoring order and unity to China.

If anything, they censored the "good" and peaceful parts of that time.

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Another type of self-made AT rifle.

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rare photo of MG42 in commie service.

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Daos

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I would if all the osprey men-at-arms weren't $30 for a 20 page picture book
Is there a download somewhere of all of them?

Man, they fucking loved the Mauser C96 didn't they?

>If anything, they censored the "good" and peaceful parts of that time.
Ah, that makes sense. A bit like how Nazi Germany wanted people to at least remember how shitty the Weimar days were in order to lend them the moral authority to transform the country.

Johnsons!

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Partially they just liked the C96, but a lot of it has to do with there being an arms embargo on China for a while that prohibited selling them "military" arms. Pistols weren't considered to be "military" enough to count, but rifles did. Doesn't matter if the pistol has a stock, still a pistol.

Basically their form of SMG, because the Bergmans were too expensive for most warlords to produce. But M712s were simple to make. And they made them in giant numbers, equipping entire regiments with them.

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they made a lot of them domestically so you get to see fun unlicensed copies like the "Fauser" C96
Or worse instances where they don't even know what latin script looks like so random strings of characters, backwards, upside down

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Halberts even.

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It's a guandao, which is more like a glaive

I have the Czechslovak Legion one of these books. Very cool. Nice to see they make other ones for obscure topics of interest.

Wait a minute....I recognize that tiger

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Mxdoc.com
They have most of them

aw lawd he comin

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Ah laws he coming

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More of a Browning's Browning's man

If you were a major warlord with some level of arms production, what would your best option be to not get BTFO'd by Commies, KMT, or Japs?

Your best option would be to leave. Failing that it would really come down to specifics of where you were located/what territory you controlled, who do you expect to attack you, when you expect them and what kind of future knowledge you have. Obviously if you have the industrial capacity, engineering knowledge and the time to develop it, being able to equip your troops in the early nineteen-twenties with modern(ish) assault rifles, RPGs using shaped charges, transistor radios and other electronics then you would have a massive advantage over your neighbors. If Ping Li in the next village over is coming to kill you with his army next week, you don't have time to develop arms to help you fight the Japs in a couple decades.

When pic related's father asked him how did the KMT forces keep beating them again and again despite the warlord's apparently superiority in men and material including powerful Krupp guns the young marshall replied: "They have a just cause. We don't. Surrender while we still can."

Later the Japanese assassinated his father and the young man in his thrist for vengeance made a serious mistake at a critical moment that led to him changing the course of world history and living in exile in Hawaii for the rest of his life.

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Battle of Shanghai isn't Warlord Era, that was already basically WW2. Look at the Stahlhelm and stickgrenades, this was one of the divisions trained and equipped by German advisors under Chiang Kai-Shek.

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Daos are aesthetic as fuck

aw lawd he comin

bump

aw lawd he comin

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Ah lawd he comin

The Chinese were butchered like animals in an abatoir in Korea user by very few white men.Tanks driven by white men were literally covered in Chinese blood and human wave tactics just allowed white men with high explosive artillery and full auto to set new high scores. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Respectfully, in nearly every instance where American-led UN forces actually stood and fought, they destroyed Chinese forces many times their size. Chinese human wave tactics were extremely good at surrounding UN forces, causing them to retreat. When the defenders were forced to stand and fight, the Chinese were slaughtered

Actual US military academy lecture book on light infantry tactics >>>> Jow Forums and your gay grandpa's fantasy

Sorry to burst your bubble.

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>human wave tactics

Literally not what happened.
PVA fought with stealth and infiltration tactics, not human waves.

No human wave can survive long when the enemy has total air supremacy. You need to be stealthy to even think about ammassing a force larger than a platoon under these circumstances.

I recommend you to read my source: Historical Perspective on Light Infantry by Major Scott McMichael

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The PVA essentially fought the way they trained against the Japanese and Nationalists, i.e. Vietcong tactics adopted for a conventional army.

Heavy use of night fighting, close in grenade assault, sneak attacks, camoflage etc.

Guess from who Uncle Ho learned his things in the first place.

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>The Chinese were butchered like animals in an abatoir in Korea user by very few white men.
COPE

The Chinese would hide during the day and then use human wave attacks at night

Most PVA troops starved or froze to death. White man didnt even make a dent. Even in Chosin.

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Their stealth infiltration tactics are literally human waves
The term is often misused. You are right that they didn't "zerg rush," but their tactics are literally referred to as human wave tactics

By your definition, a German tank offensive is literally human wave.

No. China used flanking and schwerpunkt attacks againsst weakpoints to break through. Literally what the Germans in WWI did with their trench raiders and stormtroopers.

is he okay?

>Most PVA troops starved or froze to death
>Most
COPE and RETARD

It is tho.

You literally fought against people who were equipped like pic related during the north korean winter.
They had no air-dropped turkeys to eat, unlike you. Only grass.

And yet, you guys suffer from PTSD, not them.

Face it. White men are crybabbies who lost hard against REAL MEN.

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You realize a high portion of those guys sent to fight in Korea were political prisoners right? Furthermore, you don't hear about anything related to PTSD because they didn't talk much about it back then.

Most people don't mention the PTSD suffered by all side during WW2, but it sure as shit was common.

>political prisoners

They were KMT turncoats and some conscripted members of the non-communist factions. Of course they wanted to be repatriated back to Taiwan after the war. But still, the core fighting troops of the offensive campaigns were old Red Army guerrilla forces. Like the 27th Group Army, who are still an elite force today.

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>Their stealth infiltration tactics are literally human waves

i dont understand how people know that the PLA fought guerrilla warfare for decades before transitioning into semi-conventional warfare in the late 1947-49. why would the PLA, who had to fight enemies that often had more men, more munitions, more vehicles and air control switch from guerrilla warfare to ww1 human wave tactics for a few years in korea?

and the answer is probably racism, not the meme racism you see here but the stupid kind of racism where you underestimate your enemy because you're so sure of your superiority. like the germans thinking they were ubermensch until ivan raped and burned all the way to berlin. shit like this is why army intelligence missed 200,000 men coming through the korean border and why chosin happened and unsan happened.

everyone who thinks the chinks rely on human wave tactics should be standing guard on DMZ so when north korea finally loses its shit these genetic mistakes will be the first to go.

So, what books should I read about the 1911-37 period in China? I've read Mitter's "China's war against Japan", but that talks mostly about the 2nd Sino-Japanese War, but I don't know of any other book that talks about the period.

youtube.com/watch?v=TPu0fQhnY48
youtube.com/watch?v=4HNaB7l2GQk

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They were thicc enough to break Japanese katanas and bayonets.
The size of the blade makes it superb for urban CQC unlike the katanas which would get struck mid-swing by furniture, walls and other urban clutter.

Fucking railway steel

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Aw lawd he comin

aw lawd he comin

>>Literally not what happened.
>PVA fought with stealth and infiltration tactics, not human waves.
>No human wave can survive long when the enemy has total air supremacy. You need to be stealthy to even think about ammassing a force larger than a platoon under these circumstances.
Have you read anything from the Battle of the Chosin Reservoir? The Chinese attacked with Human Waves at night. They would crawl up as close as they can to the wire under the cover of darkness with or without smoke cover, the officers would blow the whistles and they would charge.

>enemy has total air supremacy
Which is why they only attacked at night and only did harassing actions in the day.

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>The Official USMC Historian's work on the Chosin Reservoir Campaign
archive.org/stream/USMCOperationsInKorea1950-1953VolThree/USMCOperationsInKorea1950-1953VolThree_djvu.txt
>Last stand of Fox Company
>Give Me Tomorrow : the Korean War's Greatest Untold Story--the Epic Stand of the Marines of George Company
>The Frozen Chosen : the 1st Marine Division and the Battle of the Chosin Reservoir.
>Colder than Hell
>East of Chosin : Entrapment and Breakout in Korea, 1950.

Videos because I know you can't read.
youtube.com/watch?v=b1a_z9wyWpc
youtube.com/watch?v=sGcR8b65Uwg
youtube.com/watch?v=w_6uupAEKIU
>2:19
>they were coming with bugles and their whistles
>and uh uh they were coming in hundreds you know
shame that PBS took down the full length documentry

What the fuck do you think the Chinese did? They had no tanks, no artillery, only a handful of mortars. Every thing they had, had to be carried by foot or by mule across the border. The Chinese only had numbers in that battle, 100000~120000 Chinese soldiers vs the 30000 US forces.

>Each step of the assault was executed with practiced
stealth and boldness, and the results of several such penetrations on a
battalion front could be devastating.

I have no idea what page this is because your source is fucked

I'm not going to take your PBS doc as a source

In fact, your own source says:
>Re- ports by newspaper correspondents of "hordes" and "human sea" assaults were so unrealistic as to inspire a derisive Marine comment: "How many hordes are there in a Chinese platoon?"

You are arguing with a Chinese bugman. He will never admit he is wrong because he is indoctrinated. As stated above, he will never accept any source that disagrees with the CCP, because that is wrongthink.

If you want to live in ignorance then don't drag the rest of us with you.
Subhumans like you shouldn't be allowed to live.

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aw lawd he comin all oveh meh

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>At 2125 the mortar eruptions began to walk toward the Marine rear. Whistles screeched, enemy machine guns fell silent, and the first Chin- ese assault waves hurled themselves against the juncture of Companies E and F. The enemy attacked on an extremely narrow front in order to maintain control. His troops advanced in column within grenade range, then deployed abruptly into skirmish lines that flailed the Marine positions ceaselessly and without regard to losses.
>The machine guns and rifles of Companies E and F piled the attackers in grotesque heaps up and down the front, but the pressure of human tonnage was unremitting. Ultimately, the Reds broke through on the northern tip of the spur, where the two units were joined ,They poured troops into the gap, and as they attempted to rollback the newly exposed flanks, they overran part of Fox Company's right wing platoon.
>In the low ground at the center of the two-mile front, Jaskilka's Easy Company threw a curtain of machine-gun fire across the draw in the path of 300 Chinese advancing frontally. The first enemy ranks marched into the fire lanes and were mowed down like rows of grain. The CCF soldiers in subsequent formations apparently viewed the grisly, corpse- strewn corridor with misgivings, for they stopped several hundred yards up the narrow valley and took cover.
>On the right of the 2d Battalion, the second CCF onslaught had struck the front and both flanks of Company H on Hill 1403. Human cannon fodder of Red China was hurled against the Marine positions for a full hour, but Lieutenant Harris' command held. H Company's roadblock, commanded by Sergeant Vick, decisively beat off a Chinese attack in the valley; and at 0400 Lieutenant Colonel Harris ordered the hard pressed company to pull back toward the rear of Easy Company, 2/5. Two hours later How Company completed its fighting withdrawal.

>Resorting to grinding tactics, the Chinese repeatedly assaulted Company E's position from midnight to 0200. Whistles and bugles blared over the reaches of North Ridge, and the charging squads of infantry met death stoically, to the tune of weird Oriental chants. When one formation was cut to pieces by machine-gun fire and grenades, another rose out of the night to take its place. By 0200, as the first attack began to taper off, the northeastern slopes of Hill 1282 lay buried under a mat of human wreckage. An hour later, the 1st and Special Duty Com- panies of the 1st Battalion, 235th CCF Regiment, had ceased to exist, having lost nearly every man of their combined total of over 200. Company E's casualties had been heavy, but the Marines still held Hill 1282.

>Thanks to the afternoon's air drops, Fox Hill had enough mortar ammunition and hand grenades for the first time, and good use was made of both. An estimated three CCF companies were cut to pieces at a cost of a single Marine wounded.
holy hell I forgot about the K/D ratios of some of the Marine units at Chosin

What we can gather so far is that aside from the scenario you present, we can affirm that "human wave" tactics were the exception not the norm yes?

>pot, meet kettle

>Literally not what happened.
>PVA fought with stealth and infiltration tactics, not human waves.

>Have you read anything from the Battle of the Chosin Reservoir? The Chinese attacked with Human Waves at night. They would crawl up as close as they can to the wire under the cover of darkness with or without smoke cover, the officers would blow the whistles and they would charge.

>Source(s): Dude trust me

fuck off retard. You said they didn't fight with Human Wave tactics, they did. You were the one making wide sweeping generalizations of something you didn't understand. Every engagement of the Chinese's first intervention in the Korean War were ones where the attacking Chinese were severely limited in equipment as they could only cross the border under the cover of night to escape from UN detection and bombardment. The Chinese had to make do without tanks, artillery, and other heavy equipment in these opening attacks.

Jesus thanks for bringing some sense into the thread, the Chinese success in Korea is often meme'd into some BS about the UN fighting some gallant fighting retreat against all odds back to south korea.

The chinese made very clever use of unconventional and conventional tactics to push back the UN in-spite of facing an overwhelming arms discrepancy, horrific logistics and under equipped troops, often primitive command and control and up against total artillery and air supremacy. Even inspite of their horrific casualties (which you rightful point out were mostly not combat related) the Chinese simply outplayed the UN, at-least in their initial intervention.

>they did.
Retard, see

You're taking a single anecdote and applying it to the entire battle.

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See what? That the reported embedded with the First Marine Division were exaggerating the chinese human wave assaults?

I quoted USMC official reports of said Human Wave attacks occurring, written by Lynn Montross
>Lynn Montress is one of the foremost post-World War II Western military historians. From 1950 to 1961 he was a historical writer for the United States Marine Corps and lived in the Washington, D.C. area. Though he only published seven books during his life, his insightful monumental lifetime work, War Through the Ages (1960), stands as one of the important works of military history in the 20th century. It has been used as a text book by various military academies.
I had interviews of survivors depicting the Human Wave attacks. I link several novels, even though they are geared towards for pleasure reading depict accurately what happened.

>You're taking a single anecdote and applying it to the entire battle.
I quoted battles at different locations. The Battle of the Chosin Resevoir went from 27 November to 13 December.

this thread reeks of same faggotry

I'm working off your source dude.
>The above description was derived from S. L. A. Marshall, "CCF in the Attack"

Why are you guys even arguing about this shit? We know the Chinese DID use human wave attacks but we also know that they didn't EXCLUSIVELY use human wave attacks and the idea that they "le zurg rush'd XD" there way all the way to the DMZ is factually false. Is that not good enough?

Thats what i'm trying to say

How is what I said not a Human Wave? I fucking already described what you were saying.

>They would crawl up as close as they can to the wire under the cover of darkness with or without smoke cover, the officers would blow the whistles and they would charge.
Is what
>stealth and boldness, and the results of several such penetrations on a battalion front could be devastating.

All the planning and stealth the in world doesn't change the FACT that it's a human wave. The CCF attacks East of Chosin were extremely effecting against the US Army units as their alertness was way below the USMC units. "GI's were bayoneted in their sleeping bags"

> Pfc. James E. Blohm was a medic with headquarters battery. He described the scene as he arrived in the perimeter the morning of 28 November:
>“The area was littered with bodies, Chinese and American. In the surprise attack many Gl's had been bayoneted in their sleeping bags. After daylight, men and units were reorganized, and ammo taken from the dead was redistributed among the living....The perimeter was a scene from the pages of Dante's ‘Inferno’. It was a chaos of scattered weapons and equipment; dead bodies, both Chinese and American; litter parties moving wounded to aid tents; litter parties moving the dead to a disposal area; wrecked vehicles; parked vehicles; officers and sergeants moving about in numbing cold of minus 30 degree below zero weather trying to create order out of chaos.” 2
From Death RCT-31, Patrick C. Roe Major, USMC (Ret). Available here chosinreservoir.com/ under Destruction of the 31st Infantry

Is what
>Each step of the assault was executed with practiced stealth and boldness, and the results of several such penetrations on a battalion front could be devastating.
is describing

This isn't a human wave

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