Shot down MiG-21 Bison

>combined arms and how shitty everyone outside the US and UK are at it.
The krauts haven't maintained any residual proficiency.....?

At such slow speeds, even the F-22 smokes.

Would be a perfect mercenary fighter

The krauts only have a handful of tanks and a half dozen jets that are even functional.

henlo, wher is proofs?

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Even if the MKI kill gets confirmed. The JF-17 shot down one, and likely the F-16 shot down another as I've been hearing.

Excuse the potato quality but here's a really zoomed in screenshot of a f-22 I recorded yesterday.

Attached: Screenshot_20190303-222859_Snapchat.jpg (491x614, 40K)

screenshot with tht funny resolution. fuck off pakis and poos

Proof here

Oh damn.

Chinashit now confirmed to be superior

there is literally ZERO evidence that anything else other than a mig 21 and a mi 17 on a completely unrelated event crashed

killing a su30 INSIDE pakistan and not posting any actual evidence of it is pure bullshit

KLJ-7A AESA soon.

Attached: DPFs6oxVwAAT4T8.jpg (1200x655, 75K)

shot down monkey model exports, piloted by a reasonably incompetent people, you are aware that Indian armed forces do not do preventive maintenance?

>poo piloted slavshit literally running away from a paki-chink plane
Holy shit...as if India and Russia weren't humiliated enough already..

HOLY FUCKING SHIT...

I cant wait for Block III

Is that a Cricket bat? Based chinks.

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this is literally fake news

pakistani newscaster saying that pakistani shotdown the su30 but on the india news loopback they actually say that they shot down the f16 LOL they dont even bother to edit this shit to make it at least a bit real

on other news unless the indians somehow lost half of the wing span and the canards this isnt a su30mki this looks like a mig 27 to me

not to mention the fact that they bragged so much about the mig 21 on the ground and yet there is literally not a single shroud of the su 30 so far

Attached: asdf.jpg (954x687, 35K)

kek this i saw the video like 5 times and you can clearly see that this is not a su of any kind

plus im pretty sure those "pilots" are from the same footage of those that fell on the su 24 in afganistan..

APOLOGIZE

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look at the air intakes and how bulky this thing is below
there is literally no su or mig with the air intakes so close to the cockpit

i dare to say this shit is a f15

That's an Indian news caster

read the loopback below and you will understand

twitter.com/PDCMDOfficial/status/1101593586511040513

India conceded they lost a Su-30MKI.

Dmg Ctrl engage!

if indian admitted it one would think their papers and site would have blown up with info about it

yet literally nada zero

there a couple of things that could have happened..
1) the su downed the f16 inside of pakistan (seems logical from the point of the high altitude dogfight)
2) the mig 21 downed the f16 and got downed later by whatever it was that(also logical given the footage of the high altitude dogfight)
3)the f16 downed the su30 inside of india(which they say that they were clearly inside of pakistan)
4)the sus got involved but later one they ordered them to leave

as far as no wreckage of the su 30 exists (since clearly they said it got downed inside pakistan) im gonna call it bullshit

but as far as the f16 goes we wont never find out if it actually got down or not

what a beautiful jet.
should show bobs and vagene

kek

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AG strikes on the Poos when?

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Soon

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THUNDERRRR
*na na na na na na naaaaaaaa na*
THUNDERRRRRRRR
*na na na na na na na naaaaaa na*
YOU’VE BEEEEN.....

Attached: 0D7848CF-17FC-4AFD-BA98-2B58B4942385.jpg (566x541, 26K)

This is such an interesting missile:

Mach 4,5 cruise, climbing to super high altitude of 30km before terminal dive, and strike enemy target with Mach 7 hypersonic speed in the last stage.

A monster of a missile and not something a poor cunt like Pakistan should have.

Sinking of the Indian poo Carrier with it when?

IIR the DSI inlets really helped the JF-17 evade detection by F-16 radars during air combat excercises. The plane is already very small, and the RCS is even smaller.

Panjeet media with planes is like American media with guns
>just say whatever they wont know the difference

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Pretty sure we have only seen mig-21 parts on the ground so far along with an expended AIM-120.

The first time a modern Chinese export plane has seen combat. So this is how commie arms return.

Myanmar got them as well.

Attached: Myanmar AF JF-17M - service introduction - 20181215 - 1.jpg (960x720, 48K)

>this looks like a mig 27 to me
Have you ever seen a MiG-27?
Get new glasses.

look like a f22 to me

It’s not that chinashit is any better then Slavshit, Pakistan just has really good pilots
This

anyone who believes that pakis shot down a su 30 INSIDE of pakistan and didnt even found a single piece of it to claim the moral victory and shit on india is a fool

as far as we know everything went down inside of pakistan the fact that so days after and literally not a single proof of this ever happened says a lot...

they built a fucking mansion for bin laden for fuck sake

this stinks to me too
they set a hell of a media play with the mig 21
and yet nothing for the su 30 expect some shitty propaganda despite the fact that pakistan says they downed it inside of the pakistani area of kashmir

Mate our Luftwaffe consists mostly of museum piece Tornados that have zero use in a modern conflict

Its better than the Bradley, in that it has legitimate pros, where as the Bradley seal clubbed some retards and runs around acting proud of it

Its basically brand new China shit with low mileage on the frames, and has most lkely been maintained very, very well. The Jf17 had its first flight in 2004, and was introduced in 2007. Pakistani JF-17's are just broken in, closer to new than old, and some of them are just barely five years old.

Pakistan also sucked up some pride and co-developed it with China and had realistic, attainable goals when doing so, no stealth or super whizbang features. Pakistan also maintains there stuff

Vs 50 year old planes with frames that have been beaten to hell, and only maintained just enough, to the point that they have been crashing out of the skies by the hundreds under the Indians, and killed over a hundred pilots. That second part is the worst, because when the production lines are running, these planes take maybe a month to put together from metal to combat ready, but pilots takes years to train and a decade to get good

The Indian Air Force has suffered more severe losses from crashing their own planes than from enemy action, and by severe orders of magnitude.

India has corrupted and decayed while Pakistan has improved some and maintained what edge they had in other areas. Could India pull another blitzkrieg out of its ass and smash the Pakistanis on the ground? Maybe, but given the state of the Indian Air Force, the Indians damned sure won't be winning in the air

>Vs 50 year old planes with frames that have been beaten to hell
MiG-21Bison airframes are either factory refurbished or new.

>factory refurbished
Not good enough, metal fatigue is a thing

>new
Yeah nah, that dumb, and has been dumb for a while, and they while the plans were for a phase out of all but 120 of them upgraded to a more modern standard, they never completed that

They have other, better planes, but they are also attempting to do a full domestic build. Wasteful, stupid, and pointless. They'd be better served as a tier one all weather ally of Russia and purchase stuff outright with some technology transfer

>They'd be better served as a tier one all weather ally of Russia and purchase stuff outright with some technology transfer
So they could get more barely functional domestic produced slavshit that they are just going to fly into the ground anyway?

them fox 3's tho

a JF17 does have superior fox-3's

Is the JF-17 the most cost effective fighter in the world?

Almost certainly, or a similar design would be if it were pursued by any air force. Pakistan produces these for a fraction of the cost for itself for equivalent capability and tech. They're also sanction proof from the PAF's perspective without any barriers to upgrades.

Agree on all, India still has it in them to deal us significant harm. And on paper they are superior. But this latest display was way worse than they could have ever imagined and way better than anyone in the PAF could have hoped for, we're far more confident now.

lthough I can't prove much here, I've talked to people whom I consider good sources on this matter, former PAF pilots and PAF officers and the like.

They say they shot down two Indian aircraft. Both in BVR engagements. They saw two blips on radar disappear. There's a small possibility that the second jet could have fled. But the PAF was confident enough to claim it had shot down two. The first was able to be verified with wreckage, the second fell across in the Indian side, NOT the pakistani side, otherwise wreckage would have been verified. If you look at that video of Kashmiris talking about a downed aircraft and seeing two pilots ejecting, the position of the sun that morning lets us know which vector relative to them that aircraft is falling, and it's towards the Indian side.

PAF has already awarded the Mig-21 kill, and will go through very thorough procedures before awarding the other kill. This can be tricky with BVR engagement if the wreckage isn't there to verify. Hence it isn't revealed the type of aircraft, the pilot(s) who made the kill, or the platform.

And the JF-17 is perfectly capable of shooting down an MKI, especially if correct tactics are employed. Same goes for F-16 or JF-17 shooting down an MKI or Mig-21 Bis, or vice versa. The SD-10 has just been combat tested, and the KLJ-7's improved versions on the JF-17 perform excellently in exercises, both are now mature platforms. The credentials of the F-16 and AIM-120C-5s speak for themselves.

All I know for now is that two Indian aircraft were shot down, it's highly unlikely that the second wasn't shot down. The second aircraft is most likely an MKI given RWR data. That AMRAAM that the Indians are bafflingly displaying as some sort of trophy, is a used AMRAAM, it was fired at them. One kill belongs to a JF-17, the other one probably belongs to an F-16. No F-16s were shot down, and the PAF is willing to display this fact by showcasing and verifying its inventory.

1/2

>>combined arms and how shitty everyone outside the US and UK are at it.
>The krauts haven't maintained any residual proficiency.....?

We fucking invented it in WW2 and the german army has been dead set on it since its creation. Sure there is proficiency. German army doesn't do a fucking PT march without some combined arms element.

>The krauts only have a handful of tanks and a half dozen jets that are even functional.

320 active service, 2/3rds of that most recent Leopard 2 variant. 100-150 reserve, partially slightly older A5 and such.
700+ A4's in depots owned by the manufacturer, used to be almost twice that, but they have slowly been sold off to other countries or retrofitted into newer versions. In shit hits the fan scenario, they could quickly be combat ready in theory.

Thing you need to understand about the german army, we're pumping decent amounts of money into it, but not enough. And we're buying very expensive, very good and capable systems. Take the Puma for example, clearly the most advanced, heaviest and best protected IFV on the planet. But also the most expensive one.

So until very recently, the way to get by with so little money buying such expensive systems in actually respectable numbers, was to skimp out on actual operations. We are not really involved in any war. We're not really using Eurofighters, Pumas, Leopards etc outside of the country. They're all in cozy peacetime low intensity training mode. So they skimped out maintenance, spare parts, the likes. So at the core you have a theoretically very capable force that can quickly be ready to defend the country, but in practice most of your shit sits for months in maintenance because you didn't stockpile any spares and need to wait for their fabrication.
Recently, and partially maybe thanks to Trump, that changed. We'll increase military spending from 1.2% GDP to 1.5% in like 5 years. A big chunk of this money is aimed at fixing the readyness issues.

2/2

Another thing to consider is time to field systems. If you look at the european cooperation projects like Eurofighter, or the Tiger helicopter, both france and UK used it in active service years before germany even got the initial tests done to field it.
The german army is much more careful and irons out basically all the bugs of a system before fielding and using it, which takes multiple years, while the UK and france are much less concerned with that. They iron out the kinks in active service.
Both approaches have advantages and disadvantages, and a big part in that are the situations of the countries. Both france and UK had active conflicts they were part of during the time, while germany didn't. There simply isn't a big reason to rush anything.

Pakistan Air Force only shot down one Mig-21 and they used an American missile to do that.

Main problem of the chinks is engines. They created an institute and started a development program which reverse engineered the CFM56 engine core

>First run June 1974; 44 years ago

and then proceeded to develop an engine in-house with basically capabilities of western 4th gen shit. We're talking 7:1 or 8:1 thrust-to-weight ratios. (current gen is 9:1 to 10:1)

After over 20 years, they cancelled the entire program and closed the institute, because they couldn't manage to even build a working 7:1 engine. Now they're back where they started, still buying the russian engines which power Su-27 variants and Mig-29 variants (which are decent, but not on par with western engines)

Basically, chinks are fucked for military jet engines. Too complicated to copy for them.

Exactly correct, it's small, has a small frontal signature due to the inlet bump, and if it hunts passively, it's even harder to see.

Even the JF-17's KLJ-7 displays some low probability of interception features, mimicking a limited AESA LPI feature. In exercises, even when the JF-17 was tracking the F-16 Block 52, despite the KLJ being a non-AESA, the F-16's RWR couldn't detect the KLJ-7. The F-16 Block50/52's RWR is a good one (AN/ALR-56 C/M), but that didn't stop the KLJ-7 from fooling it. So this adds further to this capacity to go undetected for longer.

Nope, the confirmed kill is the JF-17 + SD-10, the as yet unverified is kill is the F-16 scored, which is with an AMRAAM. Each platform got a BVR kill.

Agree on the Chinese engine problems, we've needed to go for RD-93s on our JF-17s. The old RD-33 on old Mig-29s was a less reliable smokey pos, especially compared to superior American engines. But for the JF-17, we went for the better series 3 RD-33MK types.

The PAF wasn't satisfied with just that, and asked the Russians for more improvements. In the end, the modern RD-93 has more thrust and a far better MTBO (4000 hrs). So PAF ordered 150 of these.

The Chinese have produced the WS-13 engine specifically for the JF-17, and even improved WS-13A has been offered. But the PAF has refused offers in favour of the RD-93 that they're satisfie with, and the PAF is unwilling to gamble with a less mature engine.

>The F-16 Block50/52's RWR is a good one (AN/ALR-56 C/M)
It's 30 years old, I wouldn't call it that good anymore even with whatever software updates it could get. It might also be because it just doesn't have the JF-17's radar in its library.

its literally a mig-21 for the 21st century

Attached: jf 17.jpg (1080x732, 52K)

Pretty easy confusion for a reporter to make. From a distance, I can see how you'd mistake this for a Viper.

>the as yet unverified is kill is the F-16 scored, which is with an AMRAAM. Each platform got a BVR kill.

Isn't the population of Kashmir separatists who are disloyal to India? I'm pretty sure they would have filmed everything from parts to the pilot and uploaded it.

Retard
Don’t listen to retards. JF17 will fly with ws13A

>I talk where I’m supposed to shit: the post

I really hope the cgi Block III I've been seeing comes to pass: the new structure that the horizontal stabilizers are mounted to could easily support twin tails, and it would free up a lot of space for easier engine access

Attached: jf-17-thunder-5th-gen-stealth-fighter-concept.jpg (863x590, 26K)

not gonna happen.
At that point, you might as well buy J-31s. It's also an export driven project and there is already engine commonality.

Although it seems unlikely that it'll get a proper bubble canopy

the engines already don't last that long; I can't imagine low-budget air forces would want to double their operating costs for negligible increase in capability
>it's not like any potential buyers have tactics beyond "bomb truck" and "mano a mano dogfight"

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>the engines already don't last that long
We're talking about the WS-13A, not the RD-33
>it's not like any potential buyers have tactics beyond "bomb truck" and "mano a mano dogfight"
why do you assume everyone is as dumb as you?

>We're talking about the WS-13A, not the RD-33
So, it have even shorter lifetime?

>WS-13A
You mean WS-10A, m8?

I'll have you know that Lieutenant General Sir John Monash invented combined arms warfare at Hamel in 1918 and that we have continued to be very good at it ever since.

no. JF-17 and FC-31 are both on WS-13. WS-10s are for Flanker derivatives, later block J-10s, and J-20.
They're not the same dimensions.

CHina doesnt fly MiG-29s and all their Flankers are now powered by WS-10s.

The WS-10 pogramme has been successfully matured since at least 2010. They even have a TVC variant of it now.

Attached: J-10B TVC performance.webm (720x480, 2.39M)

Shooting down a MiG-21 is not that impressive. It just shows the Indians are incompetent when sending outdated airframes into air to air combat.

Shooting down an SU-30MKI is impressive though. Especially if they did it with their cheap shit JF-17. I'd expect Pakistan to win against monkey model SU-30s, if they used one of the updated F-16s, considering the self destructive nepotism ravaging any professional sector in India.

Say what you will about Pakistan, but they have somehow managed to still get the best people in some of the best positions, like their nuclear scientists, and evidently pilots. Still a corrupt shithole compared to the West, but not nearly as corrupt and incompetent as India.

I don't think this whole debacle shows that outdated western technology is superior to new Russian technology though. Probably has more to do with superior competence in the Paki ranks than in the Indian ranks. Especially if they used chinkshit to do it. An SU-30MKI should beat export chinkshit, but the pilot and the command still matters more than relying too much on technology and neglecting training and merits.

>An SU-30MKI should beat export chinkshit
lol. You'd be surprised.

lol wtf, why cant Jow Forums ID aircraft?
the 2nd vid is clearly 2 f15s, obviously not related at all to the incident.
>ever trutsing poo in loo media

How do all of you know so much about planes? I've been trying to do my own research after all this india-paki shit but there's just so much information and no easy way into it. Are you just studying planes all the time?

It could have been a 23rd century space fighter and the microdicked pajeets would have still gotten it shot down through their cowardice and incompetence.

>Both in BVR engagements

and you know they are lying only for this we have the actual footage of the dogfight and the shotdown this was a fox 3 situation

>The first was able to be verified with wreckage, the second fell across in the Indian side, NOT the pakistani side

pakistanis themselfs told that the su 30 came down inside of the pakistani land of kashmir

>PAF has already awarded the Mig-21 kill, and will go through very thorough procedures before awarding the other kill

we know that on the video of the engagement we can clearly see a trail of 3 planes all on a closed loop

as i said everything went down inside of pakistan they claim it be so i dont see any reason for them to lie about this at all
the rest of the story is just pakistani bullshit

just as they never addressed the fact that the suicide bomber in india came from them

some did but good luck finding the footage ive been searching for a whole day

initially i thought it was from the greek exercise iniohos but then i saw they were talking some middle eastern shit

SD10>R77
whoever shoots first, at longer range has a tremendous advantage

Doesn’t matter. Indian men will never fight, only passive-aggressively shit into their loin cloths

Just wait till PAF releases a view of radar and RWR, along with HUD footage. I'd expect HUD footage at a minimum. Then the IAF can't use this nitpicking and fog of war to hide that loss.

they made a fucking party on the mig 21 debris

one would have think since they downed the su inside of pakistan they would have used that instead of the crappy mig..

but you know
>no debris
>not a single evidence of an su flying there
>a video that clearly shows a different plane and its downscaled
>used footage of the pilot on the parachute which was from the su 24 in syria claiming it was the su 30

yeah you will wait a lot

>is chinese export good or is russian export bad?

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>killing a su30 INSIDE pakistan and not posting any actual evidence of it is pure bullshit

Also the population of Indian Kashmir are loyal to Pakistan. They would have filmed and uploaded footage of both parts and pilots.

>We fucking invented it in WW2 and the german army has been dead set on it since its creation. Sure there is proficiency. German army doesn't do a fucking PT march without some combined arms element.

Combined arms was actually brought into being by the allies on the western front in ww1 where by the end of the war they had made it so effective they were defeating the Kaisers army. Germany did not invest combined arms in ww2. As you know so little about the history of tactics and yet are commenting on it in a deluded self deceiving fashion I did not bother to read the rest of your sperg. Go and read a fucking book

MKIs were part of the interception, your own Air Marshall said as much. No debris is what's stopped the kill being verified immediately, PAF aren't like your IAF, they're thorough in awarding kills and not making up bs claims. The video showed two jets, it's poor quality and they're flying low within visual range of one another, Pakistani officials aren't claiming that as evidence for the second kill. The evidence will probably be HUD footage and other recordings (radar, RWR).