What was Japan's endgame in the war with the United States...

What was Japan's endgame in the war with the United States? Did this change from the start of the war to the end of the war?

In other words what exactly did Japan foresee as being "victory for Japan"?

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Learn history m8. The US and allies had colonies in southeast asia (such as the philliphines, vietnam, etc) which Japan wanted to completely control as part of its empire; in fact it needed these lands cause the home islands were severely lacking in raw resources. So, in order to be a great empire, they needed to conquer nearby Asian lands; the US and allies currently have colonies in those parts; preemptive strike on the US Navy will shut off US reinforcements and allow Japan to overrun and capture all of SE asia.

That was the endgame. They weren't trying to conquer the US, just getting the west to fuck off out of parts of Asia so they could control it themselves.

Isn't that exactly what happened though? They conquered most of SE Asia. Did they just expect us to give up and not fight?

In the beginning they were hoping either that the US wouldn't want to fight or would take so long to mobilize that Japan would have time to acquire the resources to build up their forces enough to hold the US off when they did attack. By the end they just wanted to make conquering them so costly that the US would be willing to negotiate a deal to let Japan hang on to at least some of what they had already conquered. If it hadn't been for the atomic bombs and the USSR invading Manchuria the latter might have worked. The US really wasn't looking forward to losing a million guys in an invasion.

They were hoping that the attack on pearl Harbor would cripple the US Navy long enough that they could conquer and start accumulating resources to the point that for the US to reconquer its colonies would be extremely difficult and we would be forced to just accept it. Unfortunately, the US Navy got its shit together a lot faster than expected, and Japan didn't have enough time to make a bunch of weapons, jets, ammo, etc with all its new resources.

The idea wasn't to defeat the entire nation of the USA. It was to demolish the USAs confidence in military options. The idea was that if the US didn't think it could stop Japan's navy in Asia, it would be much more aggreable in negotiations regarding oil trade with Japan. The Empire wanted to hold more bargaining chips.

>oil trade
That was a big part of it too. And that's not yo diminish the already floated empire/colonies in SE Asia issue.

Japan was largely dependent on US trade for oil and other good shit like tool steel ( though it had it's own sources, just not enough). The US started choking off the Japanese oil supply to stop the conquest of China. Japan needed a way to force the USA back to the table without giving up control of China. So they went with this gambit of knocking the Pacific fleet out and taking over the valuable Asian colonies. It was something of a desperation move becuae if they didnt do something the war in China would go to shit eventually without oil so they decided to take this big chance when they still had enough juice to keep their proto empire.

And we all know how this worked out

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Kind of. America has always been a bit lazy about our foreign affairs. Japan was hoping that we'd get slapped back, figure military retaliation was too much effort, and then fuck on off back to our own hemisphere. Understand, even the Japs knew this was a long shot, but it was about the best option they had at the time.

on a broader level
the japanese were institutionally unable to admit defeat or surrender

they constantly felt the need to fight doomed battles or impossible scenarios in the hopes of getting a negotiated surrender to preserve their sense of honor

That might have actually happened if at the time the cabinet wasn't trying to get the US involved in WWII.

>tfw no boomer gf to beat me in to submission
it feels really bad

Get the US to stop embargoing steel rubber and oil. Their entire plan was literally that this was unrealistic according to admiral yamatamoto and that they needed to punch america, and take as much as possible and then switch to a defensive plan. their hit wasn't as hard as intended however and their understanding of how bad FDR wanted a war was poor.

Japan tried to expand westward into Mongolia and parts of Russia but the Soviets were too strong and defeated them several times. Japan was also bogged down in China so further expansion there wasn't going to happen anytime soon. The only place they had left to try and seize resources was SE Asia and the rest is history.

>What was Japan's endgame

To literally eat all the Chinese and chunks in SEA, and then move on to eat all the Inuits in the Aleutians, and then eat all the US troops on midway, Hawaii and work their way into the US west coast. Every military decision that Japan made was based on their obsession and lust with the taste of human flesh.

Endgame? To ruin British and Dutch colonial system. No wonder USA pushed Tokio into conflict with carefully tailored set of sanctions and de iure trade war. Replacing the world order takes a lot of planning.

They never had any victory conditions as far as I know. It was suicidal, homicidal exterminate them or they exterminate us.

If anyone has any source material to the contrary, that'd be mighty interesting.

>They never had any victory conditions as far as I know. It was suicidal, homicidal exterminate them or they exterminate us.

There was never a Japanese intention to even mount a serious attack on the American mainland, and if you think otherwise, you're a fucking retard with no basic understanding of history than is common knowledge of school children.

Fuck off, dumbshit.

I would have punched back and she wouldn't have still been standing.

>They never had any victory conditions as far as I know. It was suicidal, homicidal exterminate them or they exterminate us.
>If anyone has any source material to the contrary, that'd be mighty interesting.
like recorded history? kek.

Ultra patriotic/ultranationalist factions tended to assasinate moderate against the war like Inukai Tsuyoshi, and in general the Army was more gung ho/optimistic than the Navy, and the Navy more so than the civilian government. Army planners initially claimed Shanghai could be conquered in 3 days and China in 3 months due to them buying their own hype from recent victories.

To a much lesser extent, I think MacArthur's interest in expanding operations in Korea and Patton's interest in continuing against the Soviets at the end of WWII is from a similar state of mind as the Japanese Army, not to say that they were necessarily wrong

ed-testimony-fully-explains-why-general-macarthur-was-fired-180960622/

Basically what everyone already said but the whole reason they were in a precarious situation of resources is because japan really badly wanted to be like an imperial european power but they sperged out and went to far invading china and comitting atrocities that led to them being a pariah and having trade embargos placed upon them

>Patton's interest in continuing against the Soviets at the end of WWII

Patton was right. The Soviets only prevailed over the Germans due to the 17.5 million tons of supplies provided by the US lend-lease program. It's interesting to know that the Brits payed us back for the supplies that we gave them, but the fucking Russians totally stiffed us . The USA won the Second World War by producing supplies and hardware for the allies, although the Brits suffered the biggest proportional losses. Who cares about the Russian peasants, their country didn't.

TO KIRR WHITE PIGGU

It really wasn't though. Read a book or two, there's overwhelming evidence to the contrary. tripfags when will they learn

They were delusional about their own abilities in total war against the us.
If they only wanted limited war with the us, they were delusional about preemptive strike achieving that.
Tl;dr they were delusional

>This
Let the little guy floss his heart out!

no, you wouldn't have and if you tried, she'd still be standing. Fortfag got less than it deserved.

it would've work had they targeted the oil stores at pearl harbor, they left them untouched.

Just like Nazi Germany, they had retard civilians dictating military strategy.

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Nazi Germany wasn't a one hit wonder. It won all the way to Africa. It's generals did something right at first.

Lmao they conquered France and a bunch of tiny weak countries using "muh blitzkrieg" which was really just millions of men, tanks, and planes overrunning tiny poorly trained armies. As soon as the Germans hit real resistance of someone that could fight they got stopped and reversed. Btfo out of England, slowly picked apart in russia.

They held out pretty freaking long against Russia, even though russia vastly, vastly outnumbered them and had often comparable equipment

why'd she punch him I don't get it

The japs like the Nazis believed Americans were soft nigger-music-dancing party boys who would puss out of any real fight. They just didn't think the US had a capacity for violence greater than any of their colonial European rivals.

Considering that they sneak attacked the russians when they weren't expecting it by breaking a treaty (scumbag move) and enlisted millions of soldiers of foreign nations, I'm not impressed. Once Russia got prepared and got its war machine fully running the nazis got pushed back straight to berlin.

The thot thought the guy was pretending to hump her, and smacked him. He deserves it for flossing and acting like a child as a grown man in public

To get ameica to kick their ass so hard they felt bad about it and await for their uniona to go too far to eat us alive.

In all seriousness though, looking at the big picture, I just wonder if things would have turned out nearly as well for Japan of they actually had won.

They seemed to have ended up better off on the scheme of things than even their own original plans.

Belongs in /his/ but they gambled that 1. they could be allies with both Germany and Russia. That didn't last. 2. Pearl Harbor would cripple the U.S. response to their invasions of SE Asia. It didn't. 3. They wouldn't get bogged down fighting guerrillas. They did. Their endgame was ruling Asia.

>act like a bunch of niggers in china
>”well fuck if you’re gonna do that Japan we won’t exactly stop ya but at the same time we don’t have to sell you the oil that literally fuels said niggardry”
>chimp out at the US for refusing to enable outrageous nigging against our own ally
>somehow the USA is ultimately at fault for starting the war
good lord

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I can't add anything to what has already been posted above.

That said, alas we only had 2 nukes, and we should've dropped one on every anniversary of VJ day for the next decade (for research purposes).

fuck the nips, yellow niggers that they are

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You seen "the man in the high Castle"? Basically that but only in the Pacific

I would have kneed her in the crotch. Funniest thing ever. Bystanders don't know how to react to that. They see a woman grab her crotch and double over first thing they think is tranny. So they turn away.

France wasn't that hard to conquer because a lot of french agreed with nazi germany.

Why are you so dumb

Thot needs a fucking stomping

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Yup. If some appeaser like Lindbergh got elected instead of FDR it probably woulda worked

People nowadays don't realize how much political power there was behind "fuck it, give Germany and Japan what they want and we'll all make more money that way, it's not our problem"

Peral harbor was a huge fuck up.
/thread

she cant even look at her cellphone standing still in a lineup and not fuck that up.

god help us if that stupid cunt ever gets behind the wheel of a car.

disgustingly fat. zero perception. quick to anger. Then she even threatens the random guy. just so fucking stupid.

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They probably expected Germany to do better in Russia and be too spent to be a threat to them. Since they'd tied down france and england, Japan probably assumed the culture of warfare was a similar doctrine with the US and likely had very few people warning them about mob mentality about a war effort. They probably thought the US would of sided with the Nazi completely thinking the antabellum south would have wanted to immigrate into Asia and conduct warfare in that sort of way.

That is absolutely incorrect. Read the Tanaka memorial you fucking moron

They probably thought the brutality that caused people to go there, would cause them to stay there. They really underestimated how other cultures take brutality as a rally cause to do more brutality. IT's like nukes. You know how if you heard today on the news a nuke hit somewhere. You probably wouldn't run for your bunker if it's your normal every day life. You'd consider it a threat and try to intensify the conflict. Do you wanna die getting hit by a nuke, or trying to hit them before they can pin you with one? They really didn't grasp mobility warfare or how accustom people were to casualties even getting to America in the first place.

Wait a sec.
So the wannabe-88's of today claim that ((((jews))) wanted to warmonger the US into war in order to make money
But you say that the pro-Hitler elements in the US wanted to stay out in order to make money?

From what I have seen/read recently the Japanese navy was extremely confident with sweeping victories pre midway. They fully believed they could go blow for blow with the US navy or at least hold of the US while they consolidated their new territories.

Yeah, UK too. Chamberlain and Joe Kennedy both wanted negotiation. Hell, in 1940 Halifax tried to go behind Churchill's back and capitulate to the Germans

When you're fighting a total war, capitalists don't have the heart for it, the money isn't there, you need a country run by either communists or nationalists for that kind of sacrifice. Churchill was a nationalist. Still not sure on FDR.