In the case of capture, is it possible to resist torture? If so, how do I learn this power?

Not the OP, but better question: is there a way where I can tell them everything right away and avoid the torture?

No once your captured your going to die or be castrated anyway so it's pointless

This a thousand times over. Torture is less "a painful way to make you talk" and more of "a threat against the things you need and hold dear." The answer is death, OP.
Or you just talk.

Torture isn't really a reliable method of procuring information.

You still die or lose your balls, dick, eyes and fingers anyway so talking or not you gonna die or be maimed permanently.

bite the veins in your wrist open at first opportunity

Of course it is.

Don't get captured. Torture is useless anyway unless there's a way to verify information you give in a useful period of time, and if you don't know what exactly does the guy know.
Some techniques where you just treat POWs nicely and wait for them to spill out the beans worked better under some conditions.

Tell that to the cia, atf, fbi and the military

i dont believe this at all and think its disinfo for how well torture actually works. any by torture i mean diabolical brutality not just beating the fuck out of somebody.

Torture with ants is better faggot dont treat terrorists nicely you fucking communist

>t. entry-level military
It doesn't work against someone who doesn't know anything, but it works wonders against someone who does.
This thread isn't about interrogation, anyway. It's just about resisting torture. People torture captives for a number of reasons.

Cutting someone's jewels off and ripping their fingers and eyes out is a quick way to get info out of anyone

This, avoid capture at all costs.

Only in some cases, where it's possible to verify information. People under torture will say anything to stop the torture.
On the other hand, torture as a form of retribution or outright sadism is just pointless.
Brutal conduct rarely works in warfare. If people think that the only thing that awaits them if they get captured is death or torture, they'll just fight harder.
If you treat occupied population badly, you'll just make them more eager to fight. It's also awful for the discipline.
Of course, conditions aren't always ideal.

This board is so dumb that I honestly don't know if this is a troll or some edgy highschooler.

not him but

If I had something to tell that would result in my wife or children being harmed I would rather die.

>Only in some cases, where it's possible to verify information
You mean the vast majority of cases?
>People under torture will say anything to stop the torture.
And you think this is not a good method of procuring information?
>On the other hand, torture as a form of retribution or outright sadism is just pointless.
>Brutal conduct rarely works in warfare.
Yeah of course. As the other user said, t. entry-level military. People just get fed this bullshit because torture is bad for acquiring TIMELY intel and so that Cletus and Cortéz don't go cutting of Abdullah's dick to find out where the local Taleban are.

Well— when you realize that once you tell them whatever theyre intrested in your no longer useful— and theyre more than likely going to tourture you agian to double check then kill you.
Well you can kee telling yourself—if i talk , i gotta do all of this over again and then theyre gonna kill me.
Your life depends on it. Although you might *want* to die.

My best advice: never stop trying to murder , mame , or eat your captors.
Never stop trying to escape.

If that fails : never stop trying to end yourself

youre supposed to save the nuts and eyes for last retard once you lose them theres no point in talking

>just treat POWs nicely and wait for them to spill out the beans
Yeah, I'm sure that'll work.

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Your dick and balls gonna get sliced anyway i mean the cia did that to people in interrogation rooms before and it works alot of times on captured terrorists.

Thats why you threatened them if they dont talk than taje one ball or one eye or one thumb and that will get them to talk before you cut the rest off.

>vast majority of cases
In vast majority of cases you can't verify information quickly enough.
>And you think this is not a good method of procuring information?
No, because the guy could just be bullshitting you. Then you waste time verifying bad information.
>People just get fed this bullshit
It's not bullshit.
When you actually study history, warfare and politics, you'll realize that I'm right. Sometimes torture is useful, most of the time it's not.
Occasionally brutality is useful, most of the times it's not, it's actually counter-productive.

War is an extension of politics. War in itself is a pointless exercise which only wastes resources.
Point of war is to achieve your political aims. And you achieve your political aims by following the ''bullshit'' formulated by far smarter and more educated and accomplished people than you or I.

There's a reason why USA is the world's superpower, meanwhile everyone is trying to escape from the clutches of China or Russia or formerly Soviet Union.

Yeah, not knowing anything useful.

>When you actually study history, warfare and politics, you'll realize that I'm right.
No. Stop bullshitting.
>it's actually counter-productive.
Which has nothing to do with it's usefulness, but with the fact that your troops will get tortured as well in return and the average troop knows fuck-all worth interrogating. It bears repeating,
>t. entry-level military
You're just spouting platitudes without understanding them, as is the case with everyone who claims torture doesn't actually work.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Scharff

As the other user, it CAN be misleading to get bullshit information from a guy in pain. What the dunderhead means is that if the only source of information is what the guy is saying, you might be getting false intel. But if you're a part of an occupying/invading force, you should have multiple collection channels operating at the same time. So it's better for higher-value targets that have been proven to hold information ten times over and spies who are bound to know their network.

I don't think torture is right, but it CAN work. And when it works, it works incredibly.

Also not being anywhere dangerous helps.

Great arguments.
>but with the fact that your troops will get tortured
Historically speaking many US opponents behaved like that and we didn't reciprocate.
Now where are those opponents?
In situations where our troops occasionally acted like mongrels (Vietnam) and where we backed other mongrels who treated population brutally, we suffered setbacks.
Brutality works very rarely. You can achieve your goals even with that sometimes, but only thing you're doing is making it harder for yourself. It's a knee-jerk reaction to adversity.

Soviets acted like that in Afghanistan. They achieved shit. There's countless of other examples.

>torture doesn't work

Torture CAN work. In most of cases, it doesn't.
I agree that it can work.
But torture as a matter of policy is idiotic.

>it CAN be misleading to get bullshit information from a guy in pain.
But the only realistic situation for that is if the person doesn't actually know anything and you're trying to get intel that's not there. That's not a point against torture, it just means you need to employ torture on the correct individuals in suitable situations. Preferably have someone with at least a three-digit IQ doing the work.
>I don't think torture is right, but it CAN work. And when it works, it works incredibly.
It works whenever it's used correctly, just like any other tool. For some reason people just get told the same bullshit that torture doesn't work, probably to stop retards from torturing people. At least that's what I believe.

That is technically true to what you're talking about, but there's a lot more going on there than what you can fit on a wiki page. The guy wasn't a master interrogator because he served tea and complimented their scarf. He was a master because he worked his captives with conversation and finesse. He convinced them that sharing state secrets and operational plans was a good idea. What he didn't do was "just treat them nicely and wait." That's ridiculous.

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We're in agreement on all fronts, I think. All that's left for us to disagree on is the best flavor of ice cream, even though we both know it's objectively mint chocolate chip.

Don't get captured by brown people. If there was no chance of escape and I was going to be captured for sure by a non-Western force I would kill myself. Don't really want to be next Liveleak star.

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>In situations where our troops occasionally acted like mongrels (Vietnam) and where we backed other mongrels who treated population brutally, we suffered setbacks.
>Brutality works very rarely. You can achieve your goals even with that sometimes, but only thing you're doing is making it harder for yourself. It's a knee-jerk reaction to adversity.
And this has nothing to do with the effectiveness of torture. This has to do with stupid fucking grunts being lied to about the effectiveness of torture, because they can't be expected to not cut the balls off a local fighter if the crayon-eaters think they'll get intel that way.
>Torture CAN work. In most of cases, it doesn't.
Torture always works. It's only when you try to use the tool for something it's not designed for that you get these mistaken assumptions that it doesn't work. If you want a man to talk, torture will make him talk. Always, no exceptions.
Verifying the intel and ascertaining that the individual is worth interrogating is the job of the intel officer. It's not the fault of torture if you're torturing some kid who hasn't got a clue about anything.

>even though we both know it's objectively mint chocolate chip.
I can assure you that rum raisin is the superior flavor.

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>anything with raisins
>superior
Look, I like raisins. But putting them in a sweet treat is like putting a gazebo in your living room. It doesn't make any sense.

On a side note, would you try rum honey if somebody made it?

>In vast majority of cases you can't verify information quickly enough.
Even in the Medieval Ages, judicial torture was used only in cases of partial proof.

That sounds like an interesting piece of history. Do you have any reading to go with it? I'd legitimately like to read about that.

So you suggest every POW should be tortured?
Because if you're not suggesting that, I'm not sure what are we discussing here. I agree that torture can sometimes work. But torture as a policy is idiotic.

This and I am not 19 you try hard faggot.

Getting married helps condition you for torture

This pretty much.
AFAIK it's 100% down to individual psychology, shit you really can't teach at the end of the day.
You can learn all sorts of useful things like avoiding capture, or killing yourself, or how to avoid getting tortured, or how to feed the torturer credible false info, but the core matter of resisting it isn't a skill you can realistically train.

If it was teachable, militaries and spy agencies would have spent MUCH more effort on doing so.
Hell, it may not even be possible to realistically predict a man's level of resistance in a real torture situation, or they'd have done much more of that too.

Nope if you gave something you probably have more. The sad fact is no rescue is coming. So like I said earlier try to forget anything useful you are going to suffer either way.

>as a policy
There's that phrase again. Nobody here is arguing that point. If someone truly thinks that torture should be written into official policy for interrogation, they're probably too dumb to write their thoughts out legibly anyway. Don't make that the hill to die on.
Instead, I'd rather hear your and your opponent's input on lethal vs non-lethal vs non-crippling torture. Which do you think would reap the most information (from a confirmed source, for the sake of argument)? Which would be preferable?

>last line
I'm fairly certain the answer is no. Look at SERE. They can't even get close to learning a true threshold there. They just condition for slight pain and humiliation.

Take his testicles number one, see if that loosens his tongue.

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Physical torture is all but useless, since the pain will be so overwhelming that the victim will say anything just to get the torturer to stop. And unless you have a way to verify the intel, it's next to useless.

Physcological torture is much more effective, but again you need a way to verify the intel quickly.

Also it's 90% mental, 10% physical resistance. You can train a guy all you want, but at the end of the day, if he thinks there is no way out, then he will break

Well I'm no expert on torture but isn't non-crippling torture just superior?
You're still inflicting pain and it's better for PR purposes. Results will be the same. Pain is pain.

actually it is always a combination of both
youtube.com/watch?v=2Igyo1DdkrI

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You're right, it is better for PR than the other two. But nobody looks kindly on torturers in any case. I'd think killing the guy at the end of the interrogation and proven information would at least be more respectful than crippling, and the chance of him talking about it later is zero.

youd all talk if i left you hands and feet cuffed in a 33 degree room thats 2 feet tall with a floor made of legos and fiberglass insulation as a blanket. probably wouldnt even need to add starving rats, flashing lights and audio to break you.

through the end of the last century there's been a current in torture manuals to instructing that the fear of pain is more compelling than actual pain, and that humans, from third world dirt farmers to first world housepets, have a much higher tolerance for pain than we tend to assume, and that physical torture can harden a subject's resolve as readily as breaking it. Sadistic torture is one thing, but in terms of using torturous methods to compel a subject to reveal true and accurate information the general current is to use the methods available to total institutions to put a person at odds with themself, using psychological and social mechanisms to divert an uncooperative prisoner form their decision not to cooperate. These methods are generally based on the principle that "this can all stop immediately if you just cooperate", where jailors relocate the onus of the torture to the subject and their incomplete compliance. This is used in situations where the jailor is inflicting the torture, but also in situations where prisoners are made to subject themselves to extreme discomfort.

Wannabe martyrs are often also masochists
>embrace the suck

Just suicide before being captured. The CIA or any other respectable intelligence agency can and will make you beg for death if they get their hands on you.

Yeah, it really is dude.

This. Humans instinctively hate it and always will. It's actually difficult to think of something better at creating enemies than torture, short of cannibalism.
Even genocide was historically tolerated. Torture has been hated since we were swinging from trees.

You're kind of right here in that it's easier to just tell idiots "torture doesn't work" than to try to make a moral argument or explain that the cost/benefit ratio is unacceptable.

its the separation of sadism and violence. The difference and barrier between killing a soldier and murdering a man is violated when one has the opportunity to torture. Killing a man in a horrible, painful, degrading way is different when you do so by skill, from a hundred to a thousand yards away, and he likewise has a rifle in his hands. Its the difference between a fight and an act of perversion.

ive never felt extreme pain but it seems as though the mind and body must have a reasonable limit. i mean isnt pain a thing so you dont rip your feet to the bone walking on glass etc? seems like at a certain point the pain limit must be reached otherwise what sadistic fuck designed us to experience such levels of tortuous misery? im not saying burning alive doesnt hurt but your brain shouldnt register pain levels beyond “owww motherfucker that fire will kill me if i touch it”. how bad was the worst pain youve ever experienced and would it compel you to rat out something you love?

How does being a pathological liar affect your ability to resist torture?

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there is no way to train or prepare yourself. there is no heroism, you will break or be broken.

i can't imagine the horrors that first-world countries could implement if the gloves were finally and truly off.

Best way to resist torture is to kill yourself or make the ones who are torturing you to kill you.

>everyone breaks

It's a stupid generalisation like torture is never useful: first world propaganda for domestic consumption.

Some people (about 1 in 15,000) don't break. "everyone breaks" is meant to prevent stupid posturing and survivors guilt in the other >99.99%.

Might work but sometime you need fast info even if it's not completely reliable.

1) make all attempts to appear passive and unthreatening. Do not appear weak, just indifferent. Dont make too much eye contact, dont intentionally avoid it.
2) Do not answer questions apart from with the mandated 'I cannot answer that question' or with your name, rank, number and DOB.
3) If possible, attempt to appear wounded or sick; you may gain some better treatment, but in plenty of places youll just get the shit kicked out of you.
4) when you surmise that they think you arent going to give them anything/are going to slot you/are going to start cutting you up, thats when the work starts. Feed them just enough to keep them interested and yourself alive. This doesnt mean tell them the truth - lie with a little bit of truth that wont compromise current or further operations.
5) if possible, try and make contact with any red cross or other humanitarian organisation and try and get the message out that youre alive - the more official the better. If its been officially confirmed youre alive, the less likely you are to get slotted by your captors.
6) the waiting game. Chances are you might get treated better, you might not. Try and humanise yourself to one or more captors to gain small luxuries like a brew or cigarettes. Wait out until your release is bargained for or the war ends.

Trannies are the only ones that should be allowed to have Top Secret clearances, trump fucked up banning them from the military

Teachable? Ever heard of SERE school, champ?

SHHHHHH.
Let the teenagers wax on about the limits of a man. The children are our future and we can learn from them. Don't mention the SAS either.

based and picardpilled

Everyone breaks.

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It depends on who you're fighting. Western powers traditionally treat their prisoners well in comparison to eastern nations. If you only know some minor shit, just spout it off. If some serious lives are at stake or you're captured by a ruthless enemy, just fight to the 2nd to last round, and use the last on yourself.

Cringe. See:

Wait for some deus ex machina where the supposed big bad has his boss walk in and shoot my torturer in the head right before my dick is cut off, while also sparing my life. Worked for James Bond, should totally work for me too.

It works so well that the practice was banned in the police force in my country because it kept making people confess to crimes they didn't actually commit.

Underrated post

It absolutely is.

This is a meme propagated by hollywood to discourage people from torturing each other

No. If they ask you hard enough you're going to break. All you can really do is hold out as long as possible and try to minimize the damage you cause.
>inb4 "muh counter-interrogation techniques"
No. If you weren't drowned, burned, skinned, beaten until you shat blood, and fed your own ear, you're talking out of your ass.

yeah unless you get sexual pleasure out of it

If they absolutly want to make you talk, they will. Assuming they don't follow the POW part of Geneva. You can't resist torture forever, you only last for a rescue. Humans are fragile creature and can be broken in an endless number of way and each of us has at least one they can't handle, and torturer are generally very imaginative individuals with a hell lots of time to kill.

no, it is not possible to resist modern interrogation. don't listen to any fucking faggots telling you otherwise, they don't know SHIT. they're kids living some fantasy of being hardasses who 'resist torture'.

they don't even need to torture and haven't for generations. they can drug you to literally remove the 'filter' between your mouth and mind. nowadays they can slap an electrode cap on your head and literally read your mind.

barring all of that, sticking just to traditional pain/horror torture, you cannot resist indefinitely. you CAN render yourself useless to them (with purely mental tricks, self-deception and confusion so that they can't get useful intel from you), but it's not the same thing as 'resistance' at all. you WILL talk, honestly and sincerely, you just won't know yourself what the truth is any more. even this is nothing YOU will ever be able to do unless you already are, in which case you wouldn't bother making this thread.

Maybe by shifting your perspective and looking at it as you having something they want, which could give you an advantage?

>nowadays they can slap an electrode cap on your head and literally read your mind.

fMRI with deep ML for voxel detection is serious business. In 20 years interrogation won't be needed. They're put a brain cap on and rip your memories to a USB stick.

>that one dude in the balkans who rebelled against the ottomans and was caught and skinned alive for it. several ottoman and rebel sources state that he was silent throughout the execution, making no cry, whimper, or sound

fucking how did he do it? i don't care if it's all made up, this is the kind of shit i want to be able to do

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This. You will talk. It is usually only required that you keep mouth shut for a specified amount of time (imagine time needed to find out you've been captured plus time needed to do required work to mitigate you speaking).

That time is all that you should be asking yourself to achieve. You don't even need some fancy stuff like various "truth" chemicals or old fashioned brutal violence - just take a board, bottle of water and waterboard the victim.

Suicide

As a guy working towards SERE Spec, trust me, SERE School at its maximum is level 4/10.

Real torture has no end, like marriage.

I read that in his voice

checked

I would immediately tell anyone anything to avoid torture. Worst nightmare is a torture session ending up like Resovoir Dogs where the torturer just wants to do it for fun, not information