Is muay thai overhyped or something? it keeps getting its ass kicked

>the opinions of people who watch redneck soap opera on actual fighting

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>competitive sport
>actual fighting
Pick one.

Cherry pick harder.

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>Its harder to relearn proper punching techniques and footwork to name but a few things muay thai fucks up.

How about headmovement?

>be boxer
>slip a hook by ducking your head way to low
>get kneed in the fucking skull

/thread

actual fighting belongs here, competitive sports somewhere else.

>>be boxer
>slip a hook by ducking your head way to low
>get kneed in the fucking skull
You obviously aren't a fighter

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youtu.be/dMVY-nbt1dg

Stopping at one martial art is what sucks. If this thread belongs on Jow Forums at all, then we need to look at it through the lens of acquiring additional weaponry. Muay Thai is one gun. Boxing is another, different gun. Krav Maga, BJJ, Taekwondo, all are different weapons useful in their own right. The wonderful thing about this analogy is that martial arts knowledge is not heavy, does not take up space, and does not require ammunition. Instead of trying to argue the one superior fighting style, learn a bunch of different ways to fight off an attacker. Nobody expects that shit when they start a fight.

You're not wrong, but there's time commitment to account for. Training in one style is a big time commitment, let alone more than 4. I'd argue that the sweet spot is to have a striking style and a grappling style that you practice heavily, and just dabble in other styles to learn how to fight people who use those styles. i.e. focus on boxing and BJJ, dabble in wrestling, muy thai, karate and tae kwon do to learn how to fight against them.

Almost right. The issue is the base knowledge. Can you build on it or is it only useful for a few pieces. Different does not equal better, and there can be multiple options. The various "let's fight in a dinner jacket" martial arts are not a good base. Unless of course the objective is to get your ass kicked.
Judo, wrestling, boxing, BJJ, sambo, vale to do (cant spell)are all good places to build a base. You can start from any of these and not have to "relearn" the discipline in its "arena". Surely you were a kid. You remember fights on the playground? I do. I remember the jujitsu and karate, kwon do guys getting the shit kicked out of them because they were not equipped to handle naked agression that did not follow a specific patter or leave the desired arena.
Obviously you need a ground game and stand up to be well rounded. Looking to modern military combatitives (at least in the us) is a mistake. It focuses on the wrong aspects if you are an individual and not part of a team.
Saying just learn everything is about as useful as nunchucks are actually useful. So many styles are a joke, or a shadow of what they originally are it is crazy. Take any fighter in modern history (MMA) that rose above starting from the beginning of the UFC and you will see a common connection.
Randy "captain america" coture. Wrestling and military (at that time was wrestling +boxing combined with judo style throws)
Don fry boxer
Tank abbot wrestler
Liddell did kenpo actually a wrestler in college.
Grace bjj
The huges held the title for years and beat grace when he came back, wrestler.
Fedor sambo
St pierre BJJ
It is the same all the way up the line. Of course a few exceptions exist. Especially as MMA has evolved to become more sport, but the claim stands. Some things just are not a good base. They aren't worth the time. They teach you bad habits. Are you really going to learn an entire martial art just to learn a spinning backfist?

I forgot the guy who really shows the advantage of a good base. Dan Henderson. USA wrestling. First UFC appearance was back when they had tournament style multiple fights a night championships. He won. Obviously lacking the stand up skills but adapted amazingly. Throughout the years as he continued to fight in and out of the UFC and take championships he fought until very recently that I am aware of. His was a long career. His career and his fights are a great example of having a good base discipline and building from there. Of course being an Olympic level athlete didn't hurt either.

there are just as many opposite videos where MT guys come out on top. it is widely known that Western MT fighters have better boxing skills then native Thais who did not have effective punches until they were introduced to Western boxing in the 1970s. MT is scored 3-1 for landed kicks verses punches which is what Thai audiences want to see.Train MT to develop the total body warrior with EIGHT LIMBS and not merely two. but you will still need boxing and wrestling to be well rounded fighter. for the time investment tho MT is hard to beat for total body fitness boxing is largely upper body, etc.

muay thai reliance on brute force makes it vulneravle to arts that focus on precision. throwing kicks wildly and not using punches when theyre just face to face against enemies.

Ah ching chong ping pong. Me a good slave me use foot kung to defend my honour.

Martial arts that do not use weapons are for god damn slaves who are on a level of a gook monkey.
Think for a second what makes us better than other animals like gooks, spics, jews and negroes.
It's the white mans ability to make and use tools.

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muai thai was literally designed for 90lb ladyboys. learn how to box and wrestle

ah yes the real fight tough guys
>I would just hit you in the balls or poke your eyes
>sports have rules that means I win
edgy

On the other hand, I get the sentiment when you see mma dudes spread their legs and use their crotches as shields because groin strikes are illegal

Muay Thai is different even in Muay Thai. Real Thailand Muay Thai is way different than Dutch kickboxing which is just muay thai with different emphasis.
Both are about using 8 limbs and leg kicks.
In Thailand, however, you get more points for a kick to the thigh or stomach than a punch to the face. Also theres alot of emphasis on clenching to rest and trying to score a hard elbow or knee on the way in and out.
Dutch Muay Thai/kickboxing is more boxing oriented and leg kicks are used to creat openings for punches, clenching is used to rest but also as a tool to get knees and elbows in on a taller opponent.
So when people say (this) defeats muay Thai it depends on which school that Muay Thai practicioner hails from.

The thai's have a real problem with western boxing skills but their kicks will destroy your ability to land punches if you can't defend kicks to the stomach or legs well a Dutch kickboxer of equal experience status to a boxer would destroy him. Savate too.

In the savate video that Muay Thai guy looks like he's been practicing Muay Thai for five minutes. He's planting his feet and barely checking that slow ass savate leg kick.

>posts the best fighter to prove a point

you have to be kidding me

A muay Thai guy will just kick your legs from far so you can't get in to punch. If You do get in to punch range they can block well enough to get into clench and destroy your ribs with knees.

their lack of lateeal movement is a factor in their downfall

That's a Thai thing for sure. Lateral movement is risky when thais fight thais. That's when you catch a leg kick you can't check. The Dutch are better in that regard the fact they use a different range besides clench and kick means they use more lateral movement to change ranges.

I have no muay thai experience, but I do have training in jui jitsu and grecko roman wrestling.
From what I've heard, Muay Thai is extremely involved in high impact striking.
I imagine most of it is band or illegal in SPORTS!
You must remember, MMA, UFC, Belator, etc. ARE NOT FIGHTING!
They are a game.

Why do you never see Kali in MMA?
Because they teach you to just fucking stab someone if you can.
Why do people who obsess over MMA (almost) never train in gun fighting, the most effective martial art?

Sports != Martial Arts.

China and Japan both historically banned peasants from owning weapons. Which is where kung fu comes from.

Yeah it is a sport but it's the best way kill another man if all you have is your body. Even if theres a knife involved, hand to hand combat isn't irrelevant.
I like it like you say for the sport, I train and box amateur because I like competing and ive always had a little bit of talent for it. I wish my town had a Muay Thai gym though.

because unarmed kali sucka

>Savate master race
Red gloves reporting in. 3-3 record. I'm okay at best, but I have fun. Plus I can handle the average street fighter.

I'd say that if Muay thai was practiced undiluted against other martial arts of similar nature (Savate, kickboxing ect) then it would probably not withstand, for most of it's moves are based on close combat, which is rarely entered in a boxing situation. In MMA, however, if components of Muay Thai are combined with other martial arts such as jiu jitsu or SAMBO, it can be extremely effective.

itd do fine fighting savate kickvoxing if the stage is an elevator

>posts best fighter but mUh island meme fighting
If I wanted to be a dick I would have posted Ali fucking dancing around the ring or fucking Olexander slipping the jab on and moving so fast you couldn't settle your feet fast enough to get a kick of before he is inside on your ribs.
>but mAh open stance
There is a reason nobody stands that way in a "real" fight. Or even mixed competition.

Don't be fucking gay sparky. Real people hit back and do not conform to your imaginary scenario were standing upright and open is not the worst fucking idea ever.

If you don't see its practitioners in MMA it's because it does not work.

Literally wrong.

The only way for a short boxer to fight a taller boxer is inside. Not only is it common in boxing Marciano who had a short reach fought that way exclusively and was never beaten. Footwork has come a long way since then, but the point stands. Inside is the name if the game. Shit holifield made a living getting inside and head butting motherfuckers.

Literally right fag. Unless your entire martial art is small joint manipulation, Adam's apple and groin strikes, biting and eye gouging then if it worked people would be using it.
Don't be fucking retarded. If it works, people would incorporate it. If it isnt in MMA it doesn't work. There was a breakdown period before the modern rules. Shit fell by the wayside. Because it was shit.

Just Japan. China had a long history of every little village having a militia.

>If I wanted to be a dick I would have posted Ali fucking dancing around the ring
Or Inoki spending an entire match repeatedly kicking Ali in the leg.

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>stabbing people in the face or bashing them over the head with a stick doesn't work
For what it's worth, we almost got FMA matches in the UFC back in the Semaphore days, but a bunch of politicians were talking about banning MMA so the Semaphore execs decided not to show guys beating each other down with sticks.

So what? Kicks come from outside punch range. One leg kick from someone who throws them in competition is disabling if you dont train them. What is a boxer going to do in the clinch? Rabbit punch? Good then a muay thai fighter can eat the punch and use the opportunity to get in a thai clinch and knee the piss out of him.
A boxer could win if he uses ring craft to get in for a few shots and get out but hes taking a big risk everytime. There's no way a muay thai fighter would stay in boxing range when he could pick him apart from other ranges. they also have enough ringcraft and blocking to change ranges if theyre somewhere they dont want to be.
Muay thai and kickboxers have more tools. Boxers can do things like elbow knee and kick too but if they arent trained movements theyre going to be so slow its best to not use them.
If you had a pistol and i had a rifle why would i get in pistol range?

Are you legit retarded?

T. Giant fucking hamplanet nerd

>Kicks come from outside punch range
Only to the front leg. That is the weakness of the muay thai stance vs the boxer and wrestling stance. On equality sized opponents of course.
>One leg kick from someone who throws them in competition is disabling if you dont train them
That can be said of any strike
>What is a boxer going to do in the clinch? Rabbit punch? Good then a muay thai fighter can eat the punch and use the opportunity to get in a thai clinch and knee the piss out of him.
Your back is no longer off limits a good boxer would immediately be throwing above the hip bones on the front and back. Nobody is going to spend any time on the back of the head when all the vulnerable spots are now on the table.
>There's no way a muay thai fighter would stay in boxing range when he could pick him apart from other ranges
Again his traditional stance puts everything but the boxers front leg out of range. He has to adjust "square" changing levels and angles constantly would be disabling for the muay thai fighter the way the modern boxer does it.
>
If you had a pistol and i had a rifle why would i get in pistol range?
You are holding a muzzleoader and comparing it to a revolver.
Have you ever seen what actually happens when a traditional muay thai fighter tries to fight a wrestler or a boxer? It never ends well for the muay thai fighter. muay thai is a meme.
Imagine thinking you are going to bring your knees up faster than a boxer can unload tight hooks into your ribs. You would have to be retarded.

>what are kidney shots
>what are throat shots
>what is eye gouging
>what is biting
>what is bludgeoning
>what is stabbing
>what is shooting

MMA is a game. There are rules.
There are no rules in a fight for your life.

>MMA is a game. There are rules.
>There are no rules in a fight for your life.

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There are rules when you train. Otherwise training would be the end not the preparation. Deal with the rules. In military training you don't get to maim and kill each other either. Its simulation. As close as you can get.
>what is having a better ground game is advantageous.
>What is having a better striking game is advantageous
>you can only bludgeon if you have the "club"
>you can only stab if you have the knife
Changing angles, closing the distance all translates to having a better advantage at using the things you mentioned.
I'll spell it out for you bitch.
If your cunt ass gets tossed around wrestling, if your bitch ass gets smacked around striking, adding a weapon into the mix with your shit base, poor balance, shit eye had coordination is going to end fucking badly for you.
>but but I fight shadows and stab hay bales and fight wooden dummies
No man, you don't get it yet. There is no magic road. It's the long fucking hard one right in front of you.

>mocking people for promoting self defense while you equate a sport to "fighting"
>implying other people are edgy or take themselves too seriously

Hot take.

>literally advocating for punching people who are shooting you
This is what happens when you play a game and tell yourself you are learning to fight.

You are an edge lord fag. You can't practice you sekrit ninja throat punches on 100% resisting opponents any day. Boxers fight at full speed all the time and have a 1000x better chance of coming out on top in a street fight than any camouflage pants krav maga larper.

no u

There are two forms of Muay Thai. The traditional combat form that is one of the most resilient hard styles in existence, and the sport form that is basically thai boxing with clenches. Comparing the sport version to defensive and combat forms is an unfair comparison. That would be like throwing an Olympic boxer in with a Pankration fighter, the boxer would get eaten alive because they are trained to maximize their effectiveness within a very specific set of rules.

Intellectually, I know that the silhouetted figure in the pic is winding up for a kick of some sort, but in every other way, I perceive him being yanked skyward by his knee by a giant invisible hand

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>karate
Karate can be a good base, people are just too soured on it from all the strip mall karate that came on the scene during the Karate Kid era.

Plenty of MMA and kickboxing champions have had karate as a base. Bas Rutten, the aforementioned GSP, Lyoto Machida, Semmy Schilt, Andy Hug, etc.

Savate is pretty cool. Did a savate seminar with Nicolas Saignac a few months back. Wish it was more popular outside of France and its colonies.

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>Only to the front leg. That is the weakness of the muay thai stance vs the boxer and wrestling stance. On equality sized opponents of course.
Switch kicks have a longer range than punches. Even a rear kick will have more range than a cross with full body rotation.
>That can be said of any strike
Have you actually taken a full-power leg kick before?
>Your back is no longer off limits a good boxer would immediately be throwing above the hip bones on the front and back. Nobody is going to spend any time on the back of the head when all the vulnerable spots are now on the table.
As you eat elbows to the head and knees to the body and liver. As the thai fighter pushes and pulls you into his knees.
>Again his traditional stance puts everything but the boxers front leg out of range. He has to adjust "square" changing levels and angles constantly would be disabling for the muay thai fighter the way the modern boxer does it.
You act like mt fighters don't change levels at all. They do all the time, it's just not as frequent and drastic as boxers because boxers don't have knees and kicks to worry about. You try that shit against a decent mt fighter and you will eat a knee when trying to slip, or you can bob and weave into a kick.
>Have you ever seen what actually happens when a traditional muay thai fighter tries to fight a wrestler or a boxer? It never ends well for the muay thai fighter. muay thai is a meme.
Yeah, their lead leg gets abused by low kicks. Hard to throw punches when you can't even stand straight.

I don't even hate boxing, I actually respect it and add it to muay thai, but you're a fool if you think boxing is the end-all-be-all of striking.

I personally like watching Muay Thai, the fighters seem to go more aggro than boxers or MMA fighters

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Everything I know about fighting I learned from fighting games and I haven't lost a single fight
t. only been in 3 fights

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Muay Thai dominated K-1 so brutally, K-1 organization had to change the clinch rules to give kickboxers a chance.

Note how Thai fighters accept challenges no matter the style or the weight difference, while almost no one challenges Muay Thai fighters with MT rules (elbow strikes, extended clinch).

Ultra high iq is learning wrestling and striking to poke eyes better
t. Not Jon Jones

sanda beats muay thai in any fight. muay thai tries to clinch then sanda just does a takedown

>Switch kicks have a longer range than punches. Even a rear kick will have more range than a cross with full body rotation.
That's irrelevant when you stand open, upright and with your feet square. That stance (muay thai) is immediately discarded by it's own fighters once they fight in mixed company.
>Have you actually taken a full-power leg kick before?
My first discipline was Taekwondo. I trained in both the US and Korea.
>As you eat elbows to the head and knees to the body and liver. As the thai fighter pushes and pulls you into his knees.
Head grabs are a meme against a boxer. The thai fighter already stands open. Reaching out results in a slip and a hook to the exposed rib from a good boxer. Again there is a reason NOBODY stands this way in a fight were "anything goes".
>You try that shit against a decent mt fighter and you will eat a knee when trying to slip, or you can bob and weave into a kick.
Spoken like a true clown. Why don't you actually do some research. The handful of muay thai fighters that have had success in mixed fighting have hat to change their stance, striking, footwork, to the point they are not muay thai fighters anymore. Now look at boxers. The list of greatest ever in the UFC is littered with boxers, and fighters still get trained by boxers. As boxers. As soon as take downs become an option, and the boxer wrestler stance is taken the thai fighter is out of his element. It does not translate.
> I don't even hate boxing, I actually respect it and add it to muay thai.
That would lead to you taking what works. You would immediately drop the square stance. You would adopt the superior footwork and hand strikes. You would just be a boxer that kicks. Proving my point.

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be a knee strike actually.

>X style beats you style in any fight lol!

No experienced fighter thinks like this except when it comes to uber traditional Kung fu styles that don't actually involve fighting. Muay Thai and sanda are both about punching and kicking people in the face. Whoever is best at that particular skillset is going to win regardless of what "style" of kickboxing he's training.

every style has its advantage, in this case, sanda utilizes takedowns more and muay thai does not. grappling>striking end of story.

what does Jow Forums think of Pankration?

>That's irrelevant when you stand open, upright and with your feet square. That stance (muay thai) is immediately discarded by it's own fighters once they fight in mixed company.
That's because a square stance makes it easier to defend against kicks. You could make that argument about every fucking martial art when translated to mma. You think TKD would still stand with their rear leg all the way back in mma?
>Head grabs are a meme against a boxer. The thai fighter already stands open. Reaching out results in a slip and a hook to the exposed rib from a good boxer. Again there is a reason NOBODY stands this way in a fight were "anything goes".
No decent thai boxer would just throw his hands out there and attempt to clinch. It's always set up.
>Spoken like a true clown. Why don't you actually do some research. The handful of muay thai fighters that have had success in mixed fighting have hat to change their stance, striking, footwork, to the point they are not muay thai fighters anymore. Now look at boxers. The list of greatest ever in the UFC is littered with boxers, and fighters still get trained by boxers. As boxers. As soon as take downs become an option, and the boxer wrestler stance is taken the thai fighter is out of his element. It does not translate.
Literally every pure discipline is adapted to mma rules. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Boxers retract their lead leg a bit to stay away from low kicks. MT fighters stand less square to avoid takedowns. Wrestlers don't stand with their fucking face low to the ground.
>That would lead to you taking what works. You would immediately drop the square stance. You would adopt the superior footwork and hand strikes. You would just be a boxer that kicks. Proving my point.
It proves nothing. Boxing has superior hand strikes, but that isn't fucking hard to figure out when you only have 2 fists to work with.

>grappling is "better" than striking.

The bulk of my martial arts training has been in submission grappling and I'm still going to call you a retard. The most dominant MMA fighters right now are almost all primarily strikers.

Also I'd like to point out that muay thai does use take downs you ignorant fuck.

youtu.be/9F4xFM3VykM

youtu.be/Q-IEFUy5Kiw
Fucking muay thai is a fucking meme

>posting STRELKA as an argument

You realize they deliberately mislabel their content for views, right?

>You think TKD would still stand with their rear leg all the way back in mma?
TKD is ineffective as a fighting discipline against trained fighters.
>No decent thai boxer would just throw his hands out there and attempt to clinch. It's always set up
Head grabs are an easily dependable ploy. They leave the grabee vulnerable. They work against untrained opponents that try to pull away.
>Literally every pure discipline is adapted to mma rules.
Minor adaptations to accommodate other possible attacks, boxing wrestling, vs things like MT where your entire discipline has to be tossed out.
The stance. The gaurd. The approach. The defense. All need to be changed for the MT fighter to be effective. The boxer can walk into MMA learn a couple of defensive moves and hold his own and win until somebody gets past his sprawl.
An MT fighter would have to learn a new set of fundamentals. That is the point.
>Boxing has superior hand strikes.
Yes, and footwork, angle and level change abilities, defense, balance, speed...

>waaaaaaa my meme fighting

What ISNT a meme to you autists

A guy who could only see out of one eye, that never went anywhere in mma, who was a very bad boxer, who suffered from headhunter disease, had trash footwork,
Almost took down the most celebrated MT champion. The guy went the distance with him. Lol. MT is a fucking joke. Joe Rogan thinks MT is important. That's how you know it isn't.

>all those things that you learned
>grappling, punching, kicking
>they won't help you here
>all that sparing you did
>forget it
>it's the streets, kid
This is what you sound like. Wrestling, BJJ, muay thai, boxing, whatever you do are not magic. You can still get your ass beat, but they do increase the chances of you winning.

I never said none of that would help. I even said I trained in jui jitsu and wrestling for many years.
I said that MMA is a sport, not a martial art.
And that is literal fact.

And a bunch of butthurt faggots who take themselves and their favorite sport too seriously think they are warriors.

Gyms, of which I worked in for 7 years, are full of these people.

>A bunch of autists shrieking about various martial arts like they're video game movesets
The hard truth is the individual fighter -ALWAYS- matters more than their fighting style. A very good natural fighter using a bad martial art will beat a mediocre fighter using a theoretically-more-effective martial art.

Because it's not a pokemon match, it's two individuals human beings going at each other.

>natural fighter
Doesn't exist.
>natural athlete
Better, still not quite
>person who because of a combination of genetics, diet, and interactions with the world has superior balance, eye hand coordination, strength and basic understanding of rotational power movements all of the above above the average person
Yes ^that person exists. Still needs to be tought to fight or he will find himself cunt up asking what day it is. Or staring at his elbow going the wrong direction.
>magic
Yeah, you just thatfagged.

>MMA
Mixed
Martial
Arts

That’s because the Chinks invite some no names from Thailand and make them fight their best fighters. Once the taxi driver and the postman lose to some pro sanda fighter, the Chinks claim a big victory. Buakaw has beaten the two best sanda fighters without them having any chance - and he didn’t even use elbows.

Yi Long 1st fight: m.youtube.com/watch?v=BiUqHe1GIB8
Yi Long 2nd fight: m.youtube.com/watch?v=pfBuidil5L4
Sun Tao: m.youtube.com/watch?v=n1-s52E3Cpc
Some sanda guy: m.youtube.com/watch?v=xKbJWdJk3M8
Some Chinese kickboxer: m.youtube.com/watch?v=uNGcktVwXng

Strangely, the only time sanda fighters win is when they fight in China.

Here, you have Saenchai against some sanda dude: m.youtube.com/watch?v=OiDz6gIU1Og

>HRE
Holy
Roman
Empire

Spit it out jr. What point do you think you are making.

The Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, Roman, nor an Empire.

>I never said none of that would help.
No, but you're implying it with this bullshit distinction between a fight and a "real fight." Yes, I've seen some dude get sucker punched and go down like sack of potatoes. I've also seen guys who think they're hot shit because he punched some dude out at a bare take on a 3 stripe white belt and get their ass beat. It's that last story that inspired me to pick up bjj. Do I think I am a god? No. Do I know i can hold my own if some dickhead full of piss and vinegar wants to go? Yes.

>I said that MMA is a sport, not a martial art.
It takes multiple martial arts to create the sport. It's not the first time someone has cross trained to make themselves better fighters. Knights, samurai, vikings, take your pick. All were expected to be somewhat literate across multiple martial skills. So, chicken or egg? There are arguments that go either way.

>And a bunch of butthurt faggots who take themselves and their favorite sport too seriously think they are warriors.
The world is also filled with mouthbreathers like yourself who make absurd distinctions about fights because of a difference in venue. There are countless examples on the internet of someone with a basic background in striking or grappling kicking the shit out of your average "street fighter." You're just as obnoxious.

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no u

>every mma gym worth their salt teaches it as part of the striking repertoire
>useless in a sport where only practical stuff works

I'm not even that guy but you don't know shit.

>Muay Thai
>no elbows

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sanda does it better
fucking idiot they all use grappling