This makes the jet enthusiast super uncomfortable

AA positions is a good target for jet multirole aircraft. After that send in the props

Explain how our helicopters move almost unimpeded

>believing CAS of any kind or any type of artillery support beyond 81mm mortars is effective at all in a COIN operation
They take too long to set up, they take too long to arrive at station, and they are usually too powerful anyways to even use(explosions too close to villages etc). You wanna be effective against insurgents, you have to use insurgent like tactics, I.e. sneak up on them with foot dismounted infantry coming from unlikely avenues of approach and stop having an over reliance on MRAPs and other motorized assets.

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>can conduct recon with $100 drone
Range and reception are an issue
>warthog already used for CAS
More Expensive, out of production, requires a runway

81s don’t have nearly as much payload as a tucano. 81s also fail to reliably address moving targets.

>moving targets
You mean farmers? Because by the time you actually can muster up any CAS aircraft on station, the Taliban are just gonna go back to civilian mode and pretend nothing is happening. Also, having heavy firepower with you, like having a Tucano loitering above you, the insurgency will just say fuck it and wait for another day to fuck with you.

>better at it's job x10
if you wanna get jewish with it just use a satellite and confirm with standard drone which would be cheaper in the long run

That may be true for some situations. However the super tucano currently flies the majority of CAS missions in Afghanistan. American jet airframes are being cut a huge break by the afghan force of A-29s.

they also see heavy use against FARC in colombia

smuggler camps and trails get hit really hard, and they have even managed to get their main command structure multiple times with them
its definitely very effective in bombing runs and not something you can just run away from

Yea I watched a video of some American spooks directing a Colombian tucano to shoot down a traffickers plane back in 2007

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Look into small drones capable of carrying anti armor capabilities. A rifle platoon could set up a small fire base anywhere in the world with these things. Couple that with a mortar section and you can influence a decent sized area with a small amount of men.

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Picking the super taco over the OV-10X Bronco was a mistake, prove me wrong

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Id take that up with the people conducting the light attack experiments.

the taco got chosen for "industrial policy" reasons, i.e. it wasn't as good, but they wanted to sell Super Hornets to Brazil and that meant they had to buy the Brazilian plane

The Bronco is technically superior and also it's already been flown from LHD ships

nothing will ever come close to this tho
the super tucano just doesn't have the horsepower to carry the same ordnance

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Afghanistan also fields the MD350f light attack helicopter. This one is fitted with machine gun pods, but they commonly are fitted with 2.75in rocket pods

Forgot pic

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That’s a pretty hefty coping mechanism. The tucano won out on merit, but it doesn’t really matter because the light attack concept has been shelved for now

They're deployed after their side has established air superiority?

Exactly, same concept with a light attack prop plane

It also looks like it doesn't require a college degree to operate.
Use the enlisted men as the guinea pigs to see if it's worth it.

Oh god this.

That’s why pilot training costs would go way down. Realistically senior NCOs would be perfect pilots for these. And enlisted folk would sign up in droves for the chance to fly a bomb truck

Turboprops are great if you cannot afford jets or attack helicopters.

Because the USAF is going to buy a light attack version of the Boeing/SAAB T-X.

south american manlets would literally get vaporized on the tarmac immediately after ignition. it's too manly for them.

>That’s why pilot training costs would go way down.
Right, because the exact same training costs applied to training a pilot on an aircraft that isn't the same as the T-6 Texan II make costs "go way down".

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Yes, 350 as trainers. An inquiry about turning them into light fighters is being made. Honestly they would make a great export fighter

>air superiority
>subject is MANPADS

In addition, I'm nobody working at the pointy building with 5 sides, but why the hell wouldn't this "light attack program" just go with the AT-6? The time to train and logistics are ALREADY THERE because USAF and USN/USMC train on the T-6A/B Texan II. The aircraft is inherently reliable, powerful, and has the ability to carry ordnance.

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The point is we still field helicopter gun ships even though the threat of manpads exists

More like with the proliferation of manpads and other AA, even third world goatrapists will take one look at that thing and go, "nah."

super tucano in colombia has only really taken 1 shot down, by a .50 cal, despite having taken dozens of missions

helicopters in iraq were extremely survivable despite being in an extremely high threat environment of both MANPADS and mounted AA guns
the tucano would likely be even more survivable than that as it is still faster and higher climbing than any helicopter

there isnt so much evidence right now that the people its meant to be used against are able to reliably take them down

Tucano can’t compete

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I'd like to see figures, if you have any handy.
Something like the Tucano makes a fair amount of sense in certain areas, at certain times, but is still a relatively niche platform. One that's already served by helicopters that need significantly less airfield to operate from. What does a tucano do that a Kiowa or Apache could not?

>A29 working in tandem with the AC-235 Light Gunship
erect.

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>One that's already served by helicopters that need significantly less airfield to operate from
the super taco has an operational range 3-4 times than helicopters

>One that's already served by helicopters
helicopters have a lower linger time and a higher maintenance chain, they are also vulnerable to RPG-7s

in comparison, the light attack craft has a larger bombload and longer mission endurance
its also less vulnerable to rifle fire and handheld rockets
for people who do not need the anti-tank weaponry of a helicopter, the tucano makes an adequate bomber

the missions undertaken in colombia were bombing runs and precision strikes, similiar to a strike craft
but done under a budget with small runways

>What does a tucano do that a Kiowa or Apache could not?
It can fly higher and faster to avoid AA cannons. It can conduct reconnaissance of a much larger area. They both can be armed similarly(PGM, Rocket Pods, Machine Guns)

Someone say light attack?

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Training is a continuous thing dude, do you know the most common training flight done is touch and go? They are done all the time, and they're expensive. They ruin the tires, and cost fuel and maintenance man hours.
We're looking at a bird with a smaller logistical chain, smaller maintenance footprint, and a more specialized mission set

Nigga this thing can take off from a few hundred meters of old road and can be serviced by 4 conscripts.

Your jetlet memeplane is compleatly outclassed by anything with a jet engine.

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Well, if we ever need something With about the capacity and range of a helicopter that goas a little faster then I guess we'll go with that

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Still costs more, and dirt roads are far easier to construct than paved roads

Even in a war with super powers (china), these could be deployed in remote islands where they wouldn't be in range of PLAAF. China may choose to deploy naval aviation, but to do that would extend those assets far from Chinese coverage.

They would be used for CAS against Chinese holdouts and can even be used for light maritime interdiction (attacking cargo ships).

>can take off from a few hundred meters of old road
can it take off from a few hundred feat of dirt?

Look at our base structure in areas that it would thrive in. Theres a heli base close enough for medevac pretty much all the time. And if not they can refuel in flight. What's the purpose of setting up an entire system for this aircraft when we're just going to use it from standard airbases, where we can operate things like a10s. Its great to have rough field capability but that's only really useful for the initial engagement, Which will be dominated by the high cost high capability aircraft that can survive in that environment. Contrast that with the later force deployment of lighter units establishing themselves, using available infrastructure, or building it where needed. My point is the cost of this system of aircraft and crew and facilities setup and supply will cost about the same as maintaining current cas systems Which are far more useful in a need peer situation. This is why we don't use then already. We have pradators that are far cheaper and easier to operate in a similar capacity.

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>What's the purpose of setting up an entire system for this aircraft when we're just going to use it from standard airbases
because the A29 has a longer operational range
>where we can operate things like a10s
the operating cost of the A10 is around $6000k
>Its great to have rough field capability but that's only really useful for the initial engagement
and any subsequent engagement there after
>Which will be dominated by the high cost high capability aircraft
It is extremely cost inefficient to use an aircraft that cost over $5000 an hour, versus one that $500 an hour
>My point is the cost of this system of aircraft and crew and facilities setup and supply will cost about the same as maintaining current cas systems
Every organized military seems to think otherwise
>We have pradators that are far cheaper and easier to operate in a similar capacity.
drones can't fly as low, and will always have reception issues

forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2016/08/16/the-hourly-cost-of-operating-the-u-s-militarys-fighter-fleet-infographic/#1fb842a1685f

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This is good info

Why do turboprop proponents avoid compairing aircraft like the A-29 with drones? Could it be because drones are better at everything the A-29 is good at?

We need to return to basics

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Drones don’t have as much payload, can lose reception, cost more to fly and maintain. Look there’s three things the tucano does better

It's like comparing subsonic and supersonic AShMs.

For most of modern history, subsonic is so superior there's no competition; but with modern IC's, supersonic finally gets good enough to stand a chance, so fresh zooomers who know nothing about the field's history see supersonic has bigger numbers and think the experts working in the field for 20+ years are retarded.

US BLOS data pipes had bandwidth problems until about 2015 and they're still stressed, and MALE drones had serious soda straw problems until MTI and persistent wide area video compensated (although they still aren't fully competitive).

tl;dr turboprops are helicopter replacements not drone replacements. It will take another 10 years before you can do a full 1 to 1 swap.

Name one thing a drone can do better than a plane other than be controlled by a remote pilot.

I'll wait.

Deliver ordnance in a zero survivability environment?

You mean like a cruise missle? Why would drones be sent on a suicide mission?

Which drone are you comparing the A-29 to?

Move those goal posts much?
ROV loses to cruise, for static, of course.
Question was Manned vs Drone...

We already established the tucano isn’t meant to fly in contested air space. An f35 is the plane for that mission anyway not a drone.

Loiter time.

Reaper, predator, global hawk

A-29 do not carry more and are not cheaper to operate than Reapers and Global Hawks are ISR.

All the pilot has to do is hit the NOS and badda bing, he's safe.

So then you use F-35’s. It’s cheaper

They absolutely do carry more payload. I’m almost positive global hawk hasn’t even been fitted for live munitions. Things might have changed and it had bombing capabilities now, but I highly doubt that it surpassed the tucano

Yea in the scenario you suggested, f35s would be appropriate for a bombing run

Reapers can carry almost half again what the A-29 can, Global Hawk are unarmed ISR and not relevant to the discussion.

An F-35 is always going to be cheaper

Ok I’ll bite. How will the f35 be cheaper?

Buying an F-35 that can do everything is cheaper than buying a Tucano to do CAS and also an F-35 to do everything else

what in the fuck

Genie is a hell of a drug

>unguided air-to-air nuclear missiles

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No it isn’t you mong. It’s cheaper to buy the tucano for low intensity CAS than to waste airframe hours on an f35 doing basic bombing runs.

So how is it better than an attack helicopter?

Read the thread and you’ll have your answer

>an F-35
an estimated operational cost per hour of 22k-30k

Don’t bother trying to explain to the retards, they just double down

...

AirTractor/Thrush is better.

Show flag

>inb4 USAF fully cancels OAX and instead elects to arm their new T-X's
heh nothin personel, propfags

The T-X is possibly being made into a light fighter for export. There are currently no plans for a primarily ground attack t-x

>The T-X is possibly being made into a light fighter for export
or just as trainers

Seething jettitor

It is being procured for trainer aircraft. That much is known. It MIGHT get reworked as a cheap fighter

What do you think the Chinese copycat of a light attack craft will look like?

a c172 with impressive low wings

>what is Fire Force?