If the entire civilian populace went batshit fanatically insane and the entire military/police/government populace of the United States were to essentially wage a massive civil war against each other, who would be victorious?
It's not a zombie apocalypse or a (literal) plague of insanity, but every one who isn't a cop, a pliceman, or a government worker picked up the nearest molotov, axe, gun and went out to fight every last one in a uniform they saw would they win or lose?
The cops/feds would be annihilated. Military could stand a chance if they hold nothing back but ground forces might be overwhelmed but sheer numbers
>the last guy alive in the nuclear missile facility turns both keys and kills pretty much everyone
>en.wikipedia.org
>including about 765,000 sworn personnel (defined as those with general arrest powers). Agencies also employed approximately 100,000 part-time employees, including 44,000 sworn officers.
>en.wikipedia.org
>The projected active duty end strength in the armed forces for fiscal year 2017 was 1,281,900 servicemembers, with an additional 801,200 people in the seven reserve components.
So extrapolating we're probably at roughly 3.5 million uniformed members, not including government workers.
The population of the U.S is: 327.2 million.
So even if 5% of the US population engaged in what you called they'd outnumber all armed and police forces by about 4.6 times.
lots of napalm
300 million people vs what, a million if we're being generous? Even if they try using every nuke we have, they couldn't kill 300 million people. They would have no chance.
Can't most modern militaries easily win against odds of 4 or even 10 times the numerical inferiority against people who don't have modern military equipment?
It's tanks, jets, and machine guns against. . .people with knives and molotovs and maybe a few token civilian heavy equipment
>but every one who isn't a cop, a pliceman, or a government worker picked up the nearest molotov, axe, gun and went out to fight every last one in a uniform they saw would they win or lose?
This is unironically how the Second American Civil War NEEDS to happen.
"You no longer have a Constitution in this land. The most vile criminal people that ever walked the face of the earth now reside in Washington DC and they are your masters!!!
And Jesus Christ is going to bless this land?!
How dare you even consider it!!!
I'm asking you to make measly, miserable worms out of ALL Federal Agents! This is our country! When you raise that hand to feel the power, that comes from total absolute unconditional commitment!
We win or we die!!!"
-Louis Beam
Military
>armies are meat grinding machines that can take on any amount of flesh
No
Even if you have unlimited ammunition, fuel, and supplies. Even with air strikes and goddamn fuel air bombs and napalm. Excluding nuclear weaponry any modern military would be annihilated if engaged with forces 100 times their size. You'd kill many but the rest would swarm.
100 soldiers would lose to 100,000 men. 10,000 soldiers would lose to 1,000,000 men no equipment short of nuclear can change that.
Except people aren't machines either.
You don't need to kill a thousand men to defeat an army of a thousand. Just however many it takes before the rest decide it's not worth it and rout. The whole point of drilling and instilling discipline is to decrease that ratio as much as possible.
Feds would be 99% wiped in 24 hours
>who would be victorious?
no one, the entire meme is a Russian subversion wet dream thought up by club orlov only traitors and treasonous fucks drink this kool aid
In this scenario didn't everyone just go apeshit insane and decide to charge soldiers with axes. Sounds like morale isn't a factor for the civies.
Civilian government worker here.
Absolutely would not side with the cops/military if something like this happened
Going by your magical split of all civilians vs all gov/military because assuming mind control/witchcraft.
Military leaves all major cities and establishes blockages around them while also grounding all aircraft and shipping into said cities. Sit back and watch them starve from a distance.
There is the notable insurgent force that live outside of the cities that would have to be dealt with. The south would be a fucking nightmare to secure.
Keys are designed to not be turned by 1 person. Why so dumb boi
>who would be victorious?
The rest of the World
>Louis Beam
Googled this man, picture of George W. is first thing you see. Were they allies?
>modern militaries
>4 or even 10 times
You do realize you're responding to a post that's includes police (i.e. not modern militaries) for a +50% bonus, and still comes up with civilians outnumbering them 90 to 1?
>hurr durr major cities
Almost half the population lives outside cities. They still outnumber you 40 to 1.
And with the majority of Military forces being outside the cities in cleared areas, please explain how you'll be attacking those locations. The vast majority of the population would simply ask to be left the fuck alone.
Oh snipers? Good thing we've had Boomerang for over a decade now.
Home made motors? Good thing we've got CRAM and counterfire batteries.
Oh your hiding innawoods? Since the military/gov has been witchcrafted into slaughter, enjoy napalm and Willie Pete.
Oh your mass charging? Also enjoy napalm and Willie Pete coupled with MG fire from well beyond your range.
>he thinks he's going to drop a boomerang on every corner and a CRAM/active arty battery every few klicks lmao
I say again,
Can't most armies, in open combat, and with unlimited supply of ammunition and fuel be able to grind through a force of 100 times their size knife and hunting rifle wielding men in civilian clothing? Not with ease, but with certainty. Especially if they are able to establish barbed wire and defensive positions.
The effectiveness of human waves of melee armed troops died on no-mans land in 1914.
One JDAM should be able to easily kill hundreds in a single blow.
Again, look at the scenario posted. Every civilian goes batshit insane and just goes for anything in uniform. Literally all the military has to do is pull back and let loose without the gloves on. These aren't surgical strikes, these aren't fucking tet offensives.
The military has ZERO need to hold city corners, hence my comment of being outside cities in cleared area's and letting the blood letting begin.
Stick and string
Pull down to turn
>And with the majority of Military forces being outside the cities in cleared areas, please explain how you'll be attacking those locations.
>I have ignored 100+ years of the history of guerrilla warfare because I am a moron
Ok. Let's break this down.
>The vast majority of the population would simply ask to be left the fuck alone.
Not in this scenario bucko. You're implying the batshit crazy won't be organized which is a foolish assumption to make. OP explicitly stated it would be a civil war scenario you daft cunt. You think everyone will be a berserker without any tactical knowledge?
>Oh snipers? Good thing we've had Boomerang for over a decade now.
>Home made motors? Good thing we've got CRAM and counterfire batteries.
Are those systems going to be available on every military insitalion and every unit? No. They will not be. There will be large amounts of exposed personel and insurgents will find a way to exploit it.
>Oh your hiding innawoods? Since the military/gov has been witchcrafted into slaughter, enjoy napalm and Willie Pete.
Enjoy having your supply lines hit. The lines will not be clear and there will not be an unlimited supply of stuff for the U.S. to use.
>Oh your mass charging? Also enjoy napalm and Willie Pete coupled with MG fire from well beyond your range.
See above.
>Googled this man, picture of George W. is first thing you see. Were they allies?
It's an open letter written by a different Louis Beam to President Bush.
Every person in this thread is retarded.
The US government relies on US civilians for everything. Civilians win without firing a shot. Literally all they have to do is stop working and paying taxes. War is over in a week.
You can't make everyone in the govt or le a soldier overnight either. If u turned all leo into soldiers society would collapse even further bc there would be no police officers left to handle the crimes in society like rape theft etc. Also military personnel isn't the same thing as door kickers and trigger pullers. The overwhelming portion of the military is just support. Most people in the military only shoot a gun once a year tops. They don't even know how to setup their gear. Civilians would btfo of the govt real quick
Three reasons us govt wouldn't win a war against it population.
1) manpower. 100mil gun owners, 3% revolt, 3 million insurgents. Military and Leo doesn't have the numbers to fight that large a force. Draft would be needed. Draft would fail. We no longer hang or jail deserters or dodgers so people just wouldn't show up and even if they did for the paycheck they wouldn't follow orders. Not to mention the soldiers and Leo's who would leave to join the rebellion. The US army lost their best generals to the south in our first civil war...3mil people willing to leave family and friends and die for an ideaology vs. a bunch of people who are antigun and anti war...we know how that goes.
2)cost and logistics. Iraq and Afghanistan were very expensive. To fight in the USA would make those wars look cheap. We have mtns, lakes, rivers, swamps, fields, etc. We have alot more geographic diversity then Iraq and Afghanistan. That diversity requires special training and equipment to fight in and win battles. Mom isn't going to be very happy if her baby boy gets drafted and texts her that he's cold and doesn't have the right gear to fight in...combine the logistics needed to train, equip, and supply the huge drafted force needed to win and you get an idea of how expensive it would be. Somebody's got to make all this new gear and vehicles, guess who would have to pay for these companies to rapidly expand production, us govt. Combine these facts with the fact that if there was a revolt there would be a drop in taxes revenues that the govt would have to deal with. They'd sell more debt to compensate, but the USA's credit rating and debt levels is much higher then it used to be, so borrowing that money wouldn't come cheap. The cost of destroying infrastructure would be great. Us roads aren't designed to handle the weight of armored vehicles and trucks. Infrastructure degrades and it also hurts commerce. If roads are shut down trucks can't get through. It'd be an econ disaster
Only 1/3 of an occupying force is available for operations, they will be needed to keep the dindus in line. Do not use electronic coms, use runners/couriers, use one time codes. Hit the weak points, make em live in Green Zones. Cut off their supplies, water is crucial, gas is second to water, take out drone operators at home or when commuting.
>batshit crazy won't be organized
Even in the crossed universe they weren't organized past simple ambushes and jerking off on bullets to infect others. Op literally stated everyone stopped what they were doing, picked up nearest weapon and went after those in uniform. Thats berserker style combat, not hit and run, wolverine style combat which you and the other fucktard keep thinking this is going to turn into.
This would not be a squad walking down the streets of fucking Mosul in the open trying to make friends. This would be Mosul no longer existing thanks to copious Archangel runs, HIMARs, MLRS and 155mm strikes.
3)will to win. The USA population doesn't have it anymore. We have people having meltdowns bc the McDonald's is out of apple pies, currently. As soon as their store shelves go bare they'd quit. As soon as there Lil boy gets drafted they'd quit. As soon as they see the environmental damage our modern munitions have on their precious environment they'd give in. As soon as their taxes go up or their Gibs stop flowing they'd quit. As soon as their commute is doubled bc of checkpoints or their roads are destroyed they'd quit. Americans may or may not have the will to unite against a common enemy, but if that enemy is one of the states in this country, doubtful the people have the will to sacrifice to force a state to do what they don't want to do
Do we have the ammunition to make every town and city in the use stop existing?
Even after that bombed out rubble is notoriously bad for armed warfare of whom the numerical inferiority. Just look at Stalingrad
>1% of the population
No. The military would be smoked.
Most probably wouldn't desu. I think like 65% of .mil would fuck off and just about every police force. Maybe the DC Metro police and the welfare offices would stay lmao.
>went out to fight every last one in a uniform they saw would they win or lose?
They won't go after uniformed army, but they will start killing their kids and other family members (its civil war, recall). Then rank and file will disperse. Officers may stay, but whats an general worth without an army.
Enough to make them vastly unusable to the modern person and move on to the next one while the Military secures what it needs to survive and fend off wave attacks as everyone else starves.
>also don't forget the wonders of biological and chemical warfare
The war lasts long enough for food to become an issue. So whoever gets starved out loses.
>killing somebody's wife and kids will make people capitulate.
Weweeee lad.
>death to the union
>flying the flag of a bunch of failures who wanted to import more shitskinned masses
>and were considering the enslavement of whites
Look, I get the aesthetics, but fuck the Confederacy.
Dallas Police had to use a fucking robot with a bomb to stop one single shooter. They lost like 5 guys to a decently well trained guy. Remember that force typically multiplies rather than sums up. More guys, all decently trained, and a police force even five times their size would be decimated, and that's if they're actually engaging in active combat, instead of just pulling alongside a cruiser and unloading on it ISIS style.
Bump
My battle buddy and I used to talk about shit like this in basic. The amount of reservists alone could put down a riot or crowd so I dont think it would be too horrible especially since there is air support for police and military. They would either run or die
If even half of the adult, non-military population was ideologically motivated to fight the military, it'd be over in under a year or two, if that.
If every single man, woman, and child, was hell-bent on taking on the government, a la Palestinian teenagers going full 28 Days on rando israeli cops, we're talking weeks.
>In this scenario didn't everyone just go apeshit insane and decide to charge soldiers with axes.
are they fighting Orks?
>That image
mein nigger
Govt would be overthrown in an afternoob if we all chimped out like rwandan genocidaires. pic unrelated
I think it would be a repeat of the Irish Civil War, except some of the feds will join certain Citizen Militia groups out of political sympathy.
Blue areas would probably remain in Fed control, and some red areas will survive as separate government entities, with constant border clashes and the eventual result of a Korean-style Demilitarized Zone.