Smith and Wesson M&P Shield M2.0 >better trigger >fits better in my large hands >however, low capacity and not innovative in any way
Sig Sauer P365 >fits more ammunition >is smaller in most ways >however, the krauts thought it would be a good idea to make the first few batches in India
Which do I get? Which do you have? I know the issues of the P365 have been "ironed out" but I still get the feeling it is less reliable, if for no other reason, simply because it is newer tech and is simply more gun crammed into less space. The M&P feels like a safer choice that is probably nonetheless good enough
>P365 It's still shitting the bed. Dont get it. The Shield 2.0 is worth it, as it's an improvement over an already overwhelmingly reliable and loved cc gun. I'd have one if I didn't already but an Apex trigger in my 1.0.
Elijah Cook
You can try a 12 round mag since you got bigger hands. I have a P365 and I got no complaints.
Jacob Richardson
Just get a G43X. Literally solves all issues with both of the firearms you posted.
>small >light >high capacity for its size >solid trigger (inb4 boomers raised on revolvers who literally have no idea what a bad trigger is start reeeing) >aftermarket out the ass >comes with Ameriglos out-of-the-box for $500 flat >Glock reliability
Evan Adams
I actually did try it with the 12 round. I rented both at my local range. The 12 round did help, but at that point, the gun is just as tall as the Shield, and a tiny bit wider (the Shield's grip is less than an inch thick since it's a single stack, whereas the P365's grip is a full inch thick) which makes me not want to bother at that point. I like the P365 because it's a smaller gun with more capacity, not because it's an equally-sized gun with more capacity.
That said, I actually don't care about grip comfort that much. The main thing keeping me from leaping on the P365 is a distrust of Sig Sauer and the shitty manufacturing decisions / corner-cutting they did at the start.
you forgot: >larger and heavier than both the others, literally has the grip taken from a full-size glock >typical "minimal design lmao" complete disregard for ergonomics making it worse to shoot than both the others I'm not a huge glock hater, but they seriosuly what is the fucking point of the G43X? Why would they do a hybrid between the 19 and the 43? And don't even get me started on the G43, glock was not even attempting to compete with the rest of the market with that pathetic offering
Caleb Kelly
I have to ask: Do you distrust Sig Sauer because your own independent research led you to distrust them? Or because a bunch of anonymous posters on an anime imageboard told you to?
Christian Bennett
>this Dont buy into shitty Jow Forums memes and fake anecdotes.
Ian Martinez
Independent research, which was kicked off by reading peoples' experiences and shit-talking. I don't care about primer drag, because it is, in fact, common and not a problem in itself. What I DO care about is Sig Sauer manufacturing their firing pins in some third world country, leading to the issue in the first place. Plus the issues with the trigger spring getting knocked out of place by the magazine or something? It seems to me a combination of a good-but-not-ready design combined with shitty attempts to save money.
Throw in the P320 and the issues with it, and that's enough for me to start assuming there's a mild systemic problem within Sig Sauer; Again, some combination of engineering with too little margin of safety, and shitty cost-cutting. Sure S&W had things like the Sigma series which was a dumpster fire, but that was its own quarantined series which was intentionally a dirt-cheap low-quality gun that simply turned out even less reliable than expected. Whereas Sig Sauer has these issues with their main headline items
Henry Green
>do I want a very reliable and well recieved pistol that has plenty of aftermarket options such as sights, holsters, magazine baseplates, a fucking RMR dovetail mount
or
>a very new handgun design made by a company that has shit QA/QC, buisiness practices which had teething issues all for an extra couple of rounds
Get a PPS, Glock 43 or Shield. Those are the three best single stack nines out there. There have been people who had good luck with their P365’s but I wouldn’t chance it. I have a Shield 9mm that is very reliable, pleasant to shoot in rapid fire and kicks brass out a mile away.
Shot an M&P recently and didn't much like it. Felt like most of the pull weight was on the sear itself.
Austin Robinson
wait, if it has a grip from a full size glock, why can't it take double stack mags?
Grayson Williams
Just get a g19 and stop clowning
Adrian Long
>krauts thought >krauts get the fuck out. europe has nothing to do with sig sauer anymore
Blake Ramirez
I bought a "3rd gen" P365 after been a glock fanboi for years, the P365 as replaced all of my Glock carry guns. I put 1,800ish rounds through it before I started CCing it to make sure I had no problems and all that happened was two issues back to back that were ammo related, same issue occurred with my glock from the same box of ammo.
I'm happy with it, I got it for $450 and I think it's honestly the best handgun purchase I've made in years.
no ragrets
Eli Sanchez
pictures of gun showing wear, fren?
Austin Peterson
The Shield is in no way anything more than an average pistol and isn't a safer bet than most of the rest of the market. The 365 is mostly fine but can be difficult to shoot and is double the price. They are both reliable pistols. The PPS is a good middle ground, the LC9s is a little bit down-market from there but still solid. Glock 43's are fine. You have to figure out if you want an actual subcompact/single stack or a double stack. If the grip is the deciding factor for you and you want capacity then you could easily add magazine extensions to a very short double stack SC like a Glock 26 or a PPQsc.
Zachary Walker
This is really the only wear I can actually pick up with my phones camera. The hard edges on the exterior of the slide have slight wear from carrying but my camera and lighting dont photo it well.
The gun wasn't made by the "Krauts" and the majority of the components aren't made in India you absolute retard
Joshua Young
>krauts Sig USA is a completely separate entity from the European company. Their guns aren't even designed in Europe any more.
Charles Jackson
You need to learn to read because literally .02% of the Army's tens of thousands of initial order of P320s had any sort of problem. Glocks were literally exploding when the Danish tested them against the 320.
Leo Wilson
>Glocks were literally exploding when the Danish tested them against the 320 Source?
Elijah Perry
id love to actually see a model timeline of SIG, SigSauer, ExeterShIt. I'd be willing to bet you can immediately see when the fall happened >spoiler, its when the guns started having powertool and hasbro design cues show up
Brody Adams
They did a parts mix up in the Danish selection test and a few of the Glocks had catastrophic failures after they swapped the parts on them. youtube.com/watch?v=1ANG0e6N6aQ I guess you just have to trust me teehee. Why do you think the Danish rejected the Glock despite the fact that the Glock Austria exec. in charge of the deal was a former Danish military CO?
So you've tried all of their new guns and aren't just assuming that what people say on here is true?
Wyatt Anderson
Uh, no. it's literally when Ron Cohen, the man who turned Kimber into a garbage dump, became CEO. And promptly did the same to Sig. In literally the same exact way. >cut all costs possible in manufacturing >take all that saved money and aggressively expand advertising
All their new guns are shit. >ARs had a massive recall due to catastrophic failures happening due to improper heat treatment in the fcg, leading to dropping the hammer and discharging the gun without trigger pull >Remember the Sig 556xi? I bet you don't. Because it was a broken pile of shit that didn't do a single thing their advertising claimed it did >p320 was known to not be drop safe by Sig, they fixed the issue for the military but did not issue a recall, which would damage their chances of winning the US army handgun contract; took a cop getting shot by his own gun for them to acknowledge the problem publicly and offer a fix they had ready to go, because again, they already knew it was a problem and already developed the solution >p365 suffered numerous failures and has already seen multiple design revisions Sig is a kel-tec tier company pretending to be a high end one. They make interesting, but cheap and usually flawed guns.
Jaxon Ward
Got the performance center shield. Works pretty good desu. Not 1 failure in 3000 rounds and the ports help with muzzle flip (albeit not much)
Cons 5'11 with decent sized hands, its not glock 26 bad but without the extensions it feels like shit The ports produce more residue then you would think The trigger is alright, even with the enhanced trigger its still a tad bit gritty and the break/reset is a lil soft rather then a crisp fell i prefer Stock grips could be better for carry purposes
Pros light asthetically pleasing Reliable Suprisingly accurate for a SC Suprisingly Comfortable to shoot Cheap as dirt
Those Are Some Interesting Google News Headlines Bro. Thank You For Copy Pasting Them For Me.
Noah Anderson
>the krauts Don't you mean (((Cohen?)))
Kevin Thomas
who do you think you're replying to? What are you even asking, in relation to my post?
in any case, >assuming that what people say on here >people on here boi its not just here. its a well known fact that post-american sig sauer is bougie trash compared to what it used to be in EU, and everyone over 20 that doesn't seriously wear a leejun brand (tm) club hat with matching challenge coin and patch agrees
Adrian Perry
Find me an HK recall, ever.
Sig is trash, it's ok to like trash. Thank You For Boomer Posting.
Dominic Miller
I guess when a company does something new people with Autism don't like the change in routine and it must upset them because I see a lot of posts like yours.
Colton Gray
>does something new It's not really new, people have been lowering quality control and shitting out terrible unsafe products for a long time now.
Dominic Davis
did you reference the attached image?
Jeremiah Collins
...
Ryan Gomez
Learn how to post properly before shilling my friend.
Colton Moore
I know its because of Cohen, I'm just sayin if you put up a timeline of lets say, every 226 model throughout the years, you would be able to tell by that alone when cohen claws sank in
and it wasnt just the 556xi or R, it was literally EVERY RIFLE in the 550 series except the one batch that was made in europe and imported. then what, 2 generations of mcx, 2 gens of m400, the 516 and 716s, etc
Blake Powell
You, several overweight gun journalists, and roughly 11 other highly dedicated low-functioning autistics are the only people that have this opinion
Jacob Martin
I almost bought a p365 last week but decided to wait. Now I think I'm going to get one of these instead. Doesn't seem to have reliability issues like the 365 does right now.
>Fits better in my large hands This unironically matters more than literally everything else in a CCW.
Connor Butler
get the legion
Logan Long
I doubt its with the extra few hundred dollars. Sure looks pretty though.
Jonathan Bennett
At least the other 556s were like...functional. Not good, but they mostly worked. The xi was just so broken it didn't work in its original caliber, much less with caliber swaps they promised were possible.
>more accurate >no information on reliability >no source, just a random image k Well, apparantly Sig is part of those highly dedicated autists, since they're the ones issuing their recalls. :^)
Remind me, when has HK, a genuine high end company, ever had a recall?
Cameron Johnson
>with worth*
Grayson Collins
Why is this so ugly?
Anthony Robinson
Cerakote and a much better trigger. The trigger on my friend's Legion 226 is better than my German hand-fitted 226.
These are bench tests from American Rifleman. The standard for M17s off the line is a ~2" circle at 25 yards for 5 rounds, if the batch doesn't pass they are plucked.
Ok, and? Any modern handgun has acceptable accuracy.
I don't particularly care about that-reliability is far more important. As is knowing the company you bought from isn't going to jeopardize your life, because revealing your gun has a critical failure might lose them some contracts.
As the Danish and US militaries have proved, the 320 is more reliable than the other guns submitted for their contract. soldiersystems.net/2018/02/02/modular-handgun-system-things-arent-as-bad-as-the-dote-report-implies/ As this sourced :^) article mentions, almost all of the reported problems were nonexistent, and the one(s) that did exist were rectified immediately or were outliers. Just let me shoot my SIGs bro I don't have anything against any of the guns you like.
Of course, because Sig knows delivering a faulty product to the military will cause serious problems for them. The consumer market is fair game. >Just let me shoot my SIGs bro I don't have anything against any of the guns you like. I actually really like a lot of Sig's guns. I detest the company that makes them, that is all.
Brayden Hernandez
>the 320 is more reliable than the other guns submitted for their contract. And no, they didn't prove that. They proved that Sig offered a lower price.
Mason Sullivan
Everyone I know that has a 365 raves about it. I'll probab5 be getting one soon.
If I were getting a single stack cück gun I'd get an LC9s though. Feels way, way better in the hand than the shield. The shield is a pancaked m&p compact, feels like they didn't do anything else but stick an iron on it and flatten it. Whereas the lc9 handle feels like it was actually made for a human hand. The fit and feel are just ages ahead imo.
Cameron Perry
Did you post a bigger photo so it would be easier to see the marred chamber and poorly cast safety?
Lincoln Jackson
Where is that in the DoD report?
Jaxon Bailey
Is the P938 actually a good gun? I've been lusting after one for a while.
Alexander Ross
Don't know, don't care.
Here's the Government Accountability Office report which both flat out states the Sig offer was significantly cheaper, and that it was less reliable in testing.
There is important context to this however. I do NOT believe the xm17 was a bad choice. I do believe the civilian p320 is a bad choice. The xm17 was drop safe. The p320 was not. Again, Sig actually values their contracts. No amount of advertising can make the military give a fuck if their gun shits the bed. The civilian market is a lot more forgiving to that bullshit.
Other important context is that the MHS was not just about the gun. The Army wanted ammunition and accessories as well, and it can't be even be argued that Glock is anywhere near as capable as Sig at filling orders for those. Add in that Glock is so stubborn about the goddamn safety even though the US military isn't going to budge on it, ever, and it's obvious they'd lose.
Dylan Fisher
Glock's entry had a manual safety.
Brody Ward
it was dropped in dirt, the chamber and safety are fine
Easton Thomas
A very tacked on manual safety that led to decreased scores in numerous areas including ergonomics. It was one of the issues Glock specifically bitched about, claiming the military put too much concern on the manual safety.
Oliver Hall
I went in looking for a P30SK but they didn't have any, had a good deal on this so I got it. One of the best factory triggers I have used. Some say it looks hideous, I think it's alright. Just put some XS F8 night sights on it, waiting on holsters to show up.
My point isn't that it's unsafe. It's that it's hideous. But let's digress for a second.
You have a lightbox and took a reasonably nice photo of dirty gun in it?
Alexander Roberts
Fuck no. I put the blame on that solely on Glock, as I said. They're too stubborn to make a gun that is actually designed to have a manual safety. They'd rather tack one on to an existing gun in the cheapest, shittest way they can.
Nolan Bennett
>cheapest, shittiest way >Glock
No fucking way, who could have known?!
Daniel Richardson
It's well known that early 365s shat the bed. Look it up on YT
William Richardson
I have both(and a 43), I'd pick the P365.
Ian White
I would go with M&P Shield 1.0. Reason being.. the texture is so aggresive on the 2.0 that I find it uncomfortable to carry as it rubs on my side and clothing sticks to it.
Daniel Ward
It sounds to me like you have already made up your mind. Get the M&P if you want to...
Austin Powell
I own West German Sigs, Exeter Sigs and Newington Sigs. The old Sigs have nothing over the new Sigs except sentimental feels.
Alexander Lopez
So the Sig deserved the contract, wait, what are you arguing about again?
Lincoln Cook
So Sig benefited from an all-around mediocre situation for the military. In other words, Sig was the smartest kid with downs syndrome in the competition for that particular contract
Levi Lewis
I wanted to jump on the Sig train for the aesthetic and out of the box options, but the drop unsafe scandal ruined it. I'll wait another 5 years until I consider anything from them. I'll carry my XDs and Shield until the dust clears so please do not discourage internet bickering, it's great entertainment.
Oliver Wilson
In my opinion the P320/M17 is far superior to Glock
Ryder Butler
A good rule of thumb for Sig handguns is wait 3 years after a new model is released before you buy it. That gives them plenty of time to correct their errors.
Nathan Russell
Go for whichever one feels best in your hand. Also, ignore all these 13 year old retards, they have never fired a gun outside of video games.
As far as reliability, the Sig P365 is great. I have two (and a 320) which have never had problems. Even put 2000 rounds through one without cleaning just to see how it would hold up and it did great.
The 43x has the grip length of a 19 and the width of a single stack
Jaxon Ortiz
I too own a 365 and let me be the first to say, that video is utter fucking cancer. What a bunch of stupid dipshits, "Hurr durr we're here to fight back against le internet, hey bro you've sold over TEN of these guns and they didn't never had no issues hurr aint that right?" Fanboyism at its shittiest is probably half the reason the mild hiccups of the 365 have festered into the ongoing controversy we have today
Elijah Martinez
I own a p238 and it likes to hit me in the face with brass.
Jeremiah Clark
>It's still shitting the bed Can confirm feb 19 model blew its asshole out second range trip. Never failed to fire but it certainly wasnt serviceable afterwards. Sigs warranty is solid but take forever.
Brandon Sanders
Nkayyyy How many rounds were shot back to back in that vid? Total blind fanboy dipshits, yeah Relax, have a beer
Hudson Roberts
It doesn't matter. "Mine has a thousand rounds through it and it's fine" is said about every gun made by every company, including every item in the hi-point lineup, and it is retard logic. But more importantly, they made an entire 16 minute video of nonstop dick-stroking over how great the gun is, all the while with this fake facade of impartiality.
Prospective buyer: "I don't like sig because x, y, and z business things that Cohen has done"
Sig owner: *shoots a thousand rounds through some sig gun* "Hehe that should address your concerns!!!"
Hudson Lopez
are you a lefty?
Isaiah Rodriguez
relax
Ian Young
I am basically in the same situation except I have my carry gun already and I'm trying to decide whether to buy the 365 just to have it. But I find it to be an extremely hard decision as well. On one hand, it is very cool what they accomplished. On another hand, I wonder if sig will come out with some v2 in a couple years, this time not making any manufacturing mistakes at the start. Cohen is a smart guy, and regardless of how reliable the 365 is now, Cohen must realize the only way to untaint the p365 brand is to make an extremely slightly changed v2. So for me it's a question of buy or wait
Ian Cox
the P365 is my carry gun. Got about 5k rounds through it in range time. I love it. My only gripe is that it's small in my huge hands.
James Ross
>PPS M2
>buttons instead of SUPERIOR paddles >smooth frame instead of a rail to attach your wml to >not the SUPERIOR PPS M1
So much to like about the P365, it is close to perfect for me. It has been my CCW for about a year now. It has not only become my dedicated CCW but has also taken over night stand duty, probably just being lazy on that count though.
What works for me may not work for you but luckily there are a lot of great choices out there these days so happy hunting.
Speaking as a Glock fanboy, the trial shouldn't have existed in the first place if there was never any intention of moving to a different caliber. The trial was was and the subsequent adoption of the M17 is an utter waste of tax dollars for negligible gain in combat effectiveness. Even being a Glock fanboy, I'd have said the same thing if the Army would have selected the pistol Glock submitted. It'd have made far more sense to just retrofit existing inventories of M9's to the A3 pattern, and replace frames that weren't serviceable with new M9A3 from the get go.
