This needs it's own thread, in what ways should the US modernize to face an enemy like China or Russia?
>If the United States went to war with Russia or China tomorrow, the military would almost certainly suffer a " decisive military defeat," so far that the "security and wellbeing" of the U.S. "are at greater risk than at any time in decades," according to an alarming new assessment of the Trump administration's 2018 National Defense Strategy.
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The US should just surrender to China now, as defeat is inevitable regardless what they do.
That's a bold lie
as if the US is showing it's hand in time of peace.
No need to be afraid of the future.
The IQ gap is too large. The US is a dumb nigger country now.
Whatever you say chang, I heard Chinese buildings are easy burning
Bump
> in what ways should the US modernize to face an enemy like China or Russia?
The answer is the same as always: find ways to neutralize the nukes.
ABM, surveillance, detection, submarine hunting, rapid first strike, etc etc etc.
To put it very clearly: the US otherwise cannot defeat Russia in any war. Period.
Investing in even more conventional capability to even more thoroughly annihilate them can actually be counterproductive because the more afraid they are, the more their fingers hover over the button.
The Chinese are more pragmatic, have a lot more to lose, and have fewer nukes, but it is still an insane proposition to go to war without a solid insurance policy.
I do wonder if we have nuclear neutralizing capabilities yet and if we will be aggressive once we have it.
I don't think it is a problem with tech and weapon systems, but more so I problem of the competency and quality of the personnel in the US military itself.
the US military needs a massively overhaul. perhaps we have the most advanced weapons in english world but it won't help ignore we only make 10 of each. So much of the military is still Vietnam/Cold war era outdated bullshit. America would need to step up the cyber game enough to fuck russia and china's everything up.
I agree with this as well. American military philosophy needs to change. You think we'd be better at it after fighting countless in the past century, but as it stands we've pretty much lost all of them and learned nothing.
Moreover, cohesion at a unit level is pretty much none. This happens when you turn the military into a large welfare machine: you attract the lowest scum of society and all the worthless shit bags looking for a free ride. Women who get pregnant when they know a deployment is coming, niggers who steal things, Marines who stab pins into each other's chests, officers who make quality of life for their men shittier simply because they resentful pieces of trash. And as it stands blending the races and genders together ruins cohesion as well.
Yes, I concur. But I believe the problem runs deeper than the cogs in the machine that is the American military. Our forces are being pulled back and forth, tugged one way or the other, constricted and restrained by politicians. Politicians who want to use the military as a grand virtue signal simply to feel good about themselves. Our military is being changed in a way so that is a feel-good-all-inconclusive-politically-correct manifestation of the SJW dogma. This has completely and utterly destroyed the quality of our servicemen, attracted more trash, and restrained our best military leaders. This is a problem China and Russia do not face because they do not care about their reputation with the West or what is PC or not.
So what is a good plan for this.
Is it really that ingrained? I know politics have been kneecapping our military since Korea but still. What do we do about it?
It seems you have a very accurate view on the current state of the American forces. Indeed, leftist politics have damaged our cohesion and weakened our soldiers, but I feel as though this simply comes with the changing of times. The youth of today's age are sheltered, protected in their suburban neighborhoods. They only know full stomachs and warm beds. They leisure by playing video games and parroting nigger culture. They are weak, undisciplined, and the most anti-intellectual and academically unfit generation by far. Millennial and Zoomers are simply weak and unfit for war and strategy. They lead our militaries now so what do you expect? I decree that they this way because of the manner in which they were raised. It is quite a known and common occurance these days that young boys do not have strong father figures to show them the way of manhood. Perhaps this has contributed to the weakening of our military.
China and Russia do not face this problem as well. They are third world, so they do not have the pleasure of being raised in cozy conditions. Their parents cannot afford to shelter them. Like a diamond, they are hardened by the pressure. They make excellent soldiers and a daring adversary against the American military.
kek. wtf are you guys doing
Why exactly would I want to fight Russia, they seem to be mostly defensive. Its the US that's had nonstop warfare for literally the entirety of our existence. China I don't really give a fuck about, they have numbers but they don't have an economy that could match ours and they certainly don't have the quality of equipment. And before all you fags start going off about China's "fastest growing economy in the world", it's literally a leech off of us, their entire gdp is centered around abusing its own labor force and coercing foreign business into its borders.
Tl:DR
Russia = live and let live
China = Won't bite the hand that feeds or their economy and government crashes overnight
Seems like we have a permanent leftypol presence here now
>live and let live
The world has never worked this way and you faggots are all being disingenuous.
>in what ways should the US modernize
I find it incredibly laughable that the picture used is of the Abrams tank, this highlights contention on how 40 year old tech is the backbone of our military but it also provides an unrecognized argument of why we are so great, the Abrams is currently the most lethal and combat effective MBT in active service. You want an answer to your question on how we modernize? By following the example of Abrams. There are several hundred Tanks this year and 2020 that are receiving the SEP 3 reset package which includes more armor and fire control system updates, among many other things. This is ontop of the SEP 2 which came out around 5 years which compromises the Abrams Army fleet right now across 11 brigades. The Marines received their own version on their stock with the AIM v2. Old does not mean antiquated.
You're right, the Ruskies are always doing some sneaky shit, right? Let's just cull even more white people and cripple the 2 largest powers in the world just cause.
If this mattered, it would be classified. No country loudly proclaims "hey guys, if you were to go to war with us now, we would get our shit pushed in!" unless they are trying to coax the enemy to underestimate them.
It isn't welfare if you're employed to do a job. And furthermore... Oh, you went off the rails with Jow Forums shit. nvm.
Classifying it wouldn't make it any less obvious, or known. You can learn all this shit, the US' unpreparedness for a modern conflict against near-peer foes, from OSINT. If anything this needs to be publicized right now, so that there's some actual shift back to conventional capabilities, before it's too late.
Obviously we aren't at that point yet but this article is most likely a warning that our gap of tech superiority is shinking.
>China and Russia do not face this problem as well. They are third world
Neither China nor Russia has a population that resembles Bolivia and Nigeria smashed together. Russia is an almost bottomless pit of natural resources. China makes almost everything the world uses. Their third world qualities are simply residual. There is nothing the US can do, it just isn't smart enough anymore.
We all talk about the gear, but in all honesty I believe that the main gap is made by the soldiers.
Let s be real: a bunch of rural Chinese fanatic that trained themselves all their lives against an armed forces made by a moltitude of ethnicities that hate each other and that serve mostly to earn a wage.
It would be a disaster
Evict all women and faggots from the service
Problem solves itself with time
Bump
it depends
can usa built an army that reflects their population? probably not if they could they would have done so
russia is at least 2 to 3 generations away to fix their shit so its a miracle that they can even built shit as it shit
china on the other hand have x10 the population of russia and x5 the population of usa they have naturally a lot more people to train and deploy thus they need a lot more ships/planes etc etc..
and then you have the political cost of such a war china and russia couldnt care less they never did
and you dont have a fucking madman to claim that GOD gave him his blessing to invade iraq...
thats stupid logic
everyone knows you cant stop nukes its pretty much clear
there is a reason why they are developing weapons like those hypersonics and shit or the microwave radar from lm aka the quantum radar that acts both as a directional weapon and as a radar..
whoever finds a weapon that can deal the same or even greater damage than nukes without the fallout aka whoever finds a way to weaponize pyre hydrogen without the need of a fission device will pretty much win all the wars
Invest in AA. The US has gotten complacent fighting towelheads and never having to face a peer in a straight-up fight. It's simply unrealistic to assume that in a fight with China or Russia the US will always have air superiority.
Sadly, the modern American Army is trained as a police force... controlling people vs fighting a major war. What's left of the tankers train more on video games and PC correct standardized door kicking tests than they do burning fuel and sending rounds down range. Being a tanker is more than fire commands and hitting targets. You have to have experience with your track. where to drive, where not to drive, what to do when she breaks, how to fight when you've had no sleep, when everything is covered in mud and FRH, the list goes on.
The US has a much chance of having air superiority over Russia/China in the future as Brazil or Cameroon does.
We don’t need to modernize since we still lead in tech
>>If the United States went to war with Russia or China tomorrow, the military would almost certainly suffer a " decisive military defeat," so far that the "security and wellbeing" of the U.S. "are at greater risk than at any time in decades," according to an alarming new assessment of the Trump administration's 2018 National Defense Strategy.
Where are you quoting this from? The PDF you linked says nothing like that. There's literally nothing alarming in the document, it's just the DoD asking for more money.
I will say it's great that the Cyber Mission Force is fully operational.
AI and hypersonic weapons are likely the next focus. AI will be particularly useful for the air force, and possibly for management and planning as well. Def looks like target identification is the short term goal. If it's successful expect more small (man portable) scouting UAVs. And if that happens we'll likely need small to mid scale electronic warfare.
>implying niggers are dumber than Asian insectoids
user....
At least niggers have a sense of empathy. A Chinese adult is like a human toddler in both emotional and intellectual maturity. The only difference is the toddler has the capacity to be more.
Friendly reminder that with the INF treaty gone the US will already be testing an IRBM in November.
>implying we dont already have ICBM countermeasures
:^)
Whatever helps chang sleep at night... or more accurately keeps him making iPhones at 2:00 a.m.
The only real nuclear dangers are short range missiles, and only Russia has the capability to strike the CONUS with anything other than the occasional dirty bomb. Pretty soon we'll have that covered too.
It's not that we cant, we just dont. Ask yourself what we gain by wiping a country like China off the map, easily accomplished but an incredibly expensive prospect. If that thing isn't more valuable than the cost, you have your answer as to why we haven't done it. If it comes to it, we'll probably just topple their shitty government like the USSR or continue to use international politics too keep them at heel.
OP hopes no one reads past the 'headline'.
en.wikipedia.org
research before you make retarded ass claims
Using control F, I literally can't find anything that says that in the report. Are you quoting some (((media))) person's summary of it?
>If the United States went to war with Russia or China tomorrow, the military would almost certainly suffer a " decisive military defeat,"
how the fuck does the US lose to nations with no force projection and zero logistics experience?
Pathetically obvious samefag. The precise syntax tells me English isn’t your native language, so you can drop the we/our bullshit. There’s about 7 other tells, as well. I’m guessing you’re a fifty center, based on the format of your shitposts.
Looks like standard issue call-and-response chinkposting. High probability it’s one sweaty chink responding to himself.
infantry squads need fucking observation drones and HUDs. literally no excuse for the slowballing except the dumb-ass focus on shiny toys.
i thought i was the only one who noticed it
also, every single MEG thread they say somethibg about jews
>yes, I concur
>It seems you have a very accurate view
>Indeed
>hurr look im le samefagging im le shill please notice me
>hur look le shill i am so shocked they are real
>samefagging this hard
Best part is they don't even understand where our racial tensions actually lie.
youre fucking nuts bro
They’re 25 years behind us. If they tried to invade North America it would be the shortest war in history.
What’s this “we” shit, Chinky? From your odd misuse of English, I can tell you’re not American. Your meme-tier grasp of our culture tells me you’re only allowed to have a very censored view of who we are. The rest of your post is simple penis envy.
Shut up stupid commie
The big thing is countering A2/AD so that the US can consistently enter theaters.
The Achilles Heel of the US military is its logistics. If the US can actually get its army and supply train into position, they can BTFO any force that tries to fight them, but the US needs to have functional ships, ports, and airfields, in order to physically get all of that shit into the areas. US adversaries have been focusing on disrupting US force projection so that by the time the US gets enough stuff into the combat zone to fight the war, the war is over. The US has been trying to counter this
In no particular order, this means
>hardening airfields
>being able to replace/repair ports
>defending against missiles (especially carriers)
>improving our minesweeping (naval mines are still incredibly dangerous and we don't have enough minesweepers)
>stand-off munitions so that the aircraft can engage from longer ranges and not be as exposed to missile fire
>improving anti-submarine warfare
>improving military airlift
>improving military sealift
>developing redundant communication and navigation systems that don't rely on satellites
>just straight-up stealing Chinese and Russian A2/AD doctrine and using it against the Chinese
It also means that US allies need to develop credible ground forces of their own, because they can't rely on the US being able to move an armored corps into the theater the way they did in 1991. It'll probably end up being that the US can provide the planes and naval forces (because those are easier and faster to move into position,) but our allies have to provide the tanks and the infantry and the artillery. At the same time, US ground forces are fucked from 20 years of COIN and don't have any experience in a modern battlefield with PGMs flying around.
TL;DR we need to actually get there
>US ground forces are fucked from 20 years of COIN and don't have any experience in a modern battlefield with PGMs flying around.
This is and isn't true.
First, nobody else is in better shape in this regard. No country with an even vaguely modern military fights conventional conflicts anymore. The closest you get post iraq invasion is Russia vs Georgia, and that was a small, fast conflict fought by two forces that aren't modern, didn't use modern gear or doctrine, and which were hilariously mismatched. Angry militia with man portable weapons could have invaded and still beaten the Georgians.
Meanwhile, I KNOW motherfuckers who served in the 90s who are still serving as NCOs, and the US army openly stated they were shifting back to training for conventional wars years ago. On top of that, iraq 2: Electric boogaloo started off as a thoroughly conventional war, as was fallujah. And unlike russia, the men invovled actually had modern weapons, tactics, training, and especially electronics and got to use them.
The preparedness level isn't what is was in the early 90s due to the different training a lot of lower enlisted and officers got, but the institutional memory is still there and there simply isn't ANYONE in any position to capitalize on it. The last of the 90s guys are all done within a few years at most, but there will still be veterans from '03 for potentially another 10+ years. As long as the army continues moving back to training for large scale conflict, the field will remain level or tilted moderately in favor of the US.
Either way, it's like saying "nobody in the military any practice at horse drawn logistics." this is true, but it's true for everyone, making it functionally irrelevant.
>we need mo money fer dem programs
Has China ever won a foreign war? In its history?
Yes.
Xionghu (china get stick of steppe nomad bullshit) and the War of Heavenly Horses (china invades extremely far east greek ruled kingdom/colony because they want their horses) come to mind.
Also, "china" didn't exist as an entity, much like "europe" didn't.
When the chinks talk about how china is over 9000 years old, they're fucking lying through their teeth. The states that existed in what is now china routinely stomped the absolute shit out of each other, and when they were united into larger states, would occasionally fuck up whoever was around them.
They didn't do it often largely because the larger states were prone to rebellion and civil war, and you generally don't want to spend time and money conquering a bunch of poor people who live on shittier, poorer land than you. No gain in it.
The big worry is that Russia will push the Baltics, or China will push Taiwan, and US ground forces won't be used to fighting in a battlefield where the enemy has a ton of artillery, and air strikes/missiles are a real possibility.
There's a generation of officers that didn't train for peer on peer conflict, and it might take some time to get them used to thinking in those terms.
The Chinese themselves don't really share that opinion. They've openly talked about the issues with "little emperors" in the military being useless, and within the past five years, if I remember right, decided to try and simulate American forces in an exercise by subjecting their units to unlimited air, artillery, and even tactical nukes by opfor before they even got out of their staging areas. Moral of the story being that they're:
A: going to need to prepare for that level of bullshit
and
B: Essentially unable to beat the US in a straight conflict using regular tactics.
Given the general love of saber rattling and refusing to ever admit weakness or inferiority we see out of them, publicly admitting to a problem suggest it's probably fucking severe.
#1. Create three different distinctions: Classical, Counter-Insurgency, and All Situation. Every three years, divisions switch to a different distinction. The training in a division is entirely dependent on its distinction. The goal is to make sure we have soldiers who know things, and officers who understand any form of warfare.
#2. Promotions are based entirely on merit. Be gentler on mistakes that are simple well intentioned. Go hard on someone doing something undeniably harmful to the military, or impossibly stupid and negligent.
#3. At least one trillion dollars devoted exclusively to upgrading day to day equipment. Infantry rifles and camping supplies, not fucking computers.
#4. Kick out the women and trannies. Maybe let in gays as long as they don't act like massive faggots. The military will always maintain an extremely hierarchical and masculine aura.
#5. Make people THINK. Randomly pull an officer off the base and send him to golf. Force other people to adapt to operations without him. Make sure that everyone is capable of competently issuing orders to their subordinates if they don't have a superior to worry about, officers and enlisted.
The main problem with the military is how it functions as an organization. It's a badly functioning bureaucracy. It already has everything it needs to be much better than it currently is.
>The main problem with the military is how it functions as an organization. It's a badly functioning bureaucracy. It already has everything it needs to be much better than it currently is.
That's an accurate description of every aspect of our government, really.
Kek. So fucking true. The fuckers denied me a fishing permit because I showed them a military ID and not a driver's license. There's no room for common sense.
Now? Our IQ has been on the rise for the last two decades. And there has been no sign of that trend tapering off.
Chinese kids cheat on tests all the time, the CCP is probably cheating on its national scores. Just like It's GDP
Schools are what comes to mind. More dollars per capita per student than anywhere else, yet we get middling results because... Bureaucrats, everywhere. A huge part of the expense of any school district comes from paying what amounts to a small army of what would be HR in a private company. AKA people who suck down money and do absolutely nothing productive.
Same for college. The administrator:professor/instructor ratio is insane and has ballooned in proportion to the cost of higher education, but we NEED them because they... do a bunch of bureaucratic shit that is demonstrably not vital to the core goals of their organizations.
Ever try to get a homeless man an id so he can do crazy shit like get housing, get assitance, or apply for jobs and stop being homeless?
You can't. You need proof of residency, which you.. don't have. Because you're homeless, so who the FUCK is going to mail you a utility bill?
>Kick out the women and trannies.
Could we covertly do this by raising fitness and BMI standards? This would only apply to the junior enlisted and company grade officers. As the older guys are worth the deadweight.
When fighting world powers, you tend to go for the diplomatic route instead of banking on your own forces.
The problem is really that the two """""enemies"""" of the USA are not only large countries who are allied to eahc other, but are also immediate fucking neighbors.
In addition there's really no united front against them. Russia has Eastern Europe and bits of Central Asia. China's influence peddling in Southeast Asia works for them, and has Pakistan, Iran potentially, and some of the Central Asians.
So the you really can't hope for a WWII scenario of your opponents being divided.
>a bunch of rural Chinese fanatic that trained themselves all their lives against an armed forces made by a moltitude of ethnicities that hate each other and that serve mostly to earn a wage.
Last time we had that matchup, the Chinks lost about an eighth of a million troops in the process of achieving a stalemate. You wanna go again?
china has low average iq, the only study that they use to represent general population was done online from a selected group, by the chinese. theres about 28 contradictory studies that show something in the ballpark of average 80.
they are still lagging behind in technology, but catching up. Their budgets are still low proportionately as well, and any victory would rely upon the U.S fighting a land war in asia. Otherwise neither Russia or China has any edge over the U.S in any particular field. But yes, maintaining the military supremacy of the U.S would be beneficial since most every military is equipped to fight a technologically inferior enemy, or is the technologically inferior enemy.
>Russia has Eastern Europe
Like what? Belarus?
>cant argue anything otherwise he is a chinese/eurofag/vatnik...
seriously...
>implying we dont already have ICBM countermeasures
we already had that discussion no you have ONLY one and its called GMD and its the only thing you have currently to battle an icbm
just like russia has a literally nuclear missile as last line of defence
and china i dont know what they have
>The only real nuclear dangers are short range missiles, and only Russia has the capability to strike the CONUS with anything other than the occasional dirty bomb. Pretty soon we'll have that covered too.
yes i assume you are one of those that think that somehow you can stop a barrage of missiles with unicorn farts right?
>It's not that we cant
no you cant nobody cant its untested nobody to my knowledge has ever succeed to actually intercept an ICBM
even their recent test from the marshal island they chose a trajectory of 20km altitude and called it a success which is...sad and hilarious
they called it a "simulation of a north korean missile"
Kino plane
as i have stated before there is currently ZERO success against an icbm missile
usa did a recent one paint it as an icbm(even tho the trajectory wasnt nowhere near close to an actual icbm) and with a T minus than mach 10
if you think this represents an actual sucess while a typical icbm travels more than twice as fast and 10.000% more than the actual altitude they said it was travelling i have bad news for you
>speed
The sure sign of a fucking moron SR-71 worshipper.
It's not about speed, it's about better-than-bang-bang control algos inside the intercept baskets.
>niggers have a sense of empathy
>potential to be more
Chinks are bugmen. Literal robots with no emotions. Niggers basically run on emotions and primal instinct. How empathetic are niggers in their home continent retard?
not again this shit
its always about speed thats why there isnt any successfull post apogee test so far
once the warhead gets on the apogee you can fucking throw it hypersonic dildos all you want its simply too fast for anything
800,000 chinks vs military and the military still loses. Now add another billion to the chinks numbers
Not to mention China doesn't have enough nukes for MAD. They can destroy the US's industry, or its government, but not both.
Implessive. But since we are collapsing from within due to all the Socialist gibs kids plus coons and wetbacks who will vote for their gibs, it appears inevitable.
Three words babe: Orbital rail guns.