What went wrong Jow Forums? It should have been a success

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Do you happen to know the price that would have been quoted the government? My guess is I low balled the quote price.

Not only that; ARs are better, more accurate and more reliable. And lighter too.

What reason IS there to buy that trash?

Beats me. I've seen that M4s are sold by Colt for well under $500. Exactly how low I don't know off the top of my head. The Masada is all polymer and used the same barrel, so it can be made cheaper than the m4, but how much I don't know.

The fuck else would you want over a semi-auto with a rotating bolt, solid rail on the receiver, and an adjustable butt stock?

Quick change barrels make sense on a machine gun, but no one swaps one out on a carbine on the fly because of POI shifts. I guess an extruded aluminum receiver is nice from a manufactering standpoint, but so is an established milling process that's decades old.

Maybe when push feed becomes necessary, but for good old brass cased rifles, Stoner's design is pretty tough to beat at cost.

Marginal cost could be cheaper but it would be a new design so R&D costs have to be recouped. And don't expect a for profit company to not try to make some profit.

>The fuck else would you want over a semi-auto with a rotating bolt, solid rail on the receiver, and an adjustable butt stock?
A lighter weight ar18 based rifle with a folding stock and everything meant to be tooless.

On the civilian side sure.

On the civilian side not enough money/support put into it, meanwhile costing the consumer a pretty penny. Original street price was around $2k.
If they charged half of that, they could have had a big seller. Its only alove now because of dedicated fans.

> A lighter weight ar18
> Replace gas tube with metal rod
> Beef up BCG with rails and wide flat top for piston impact
> Additional rails for bcg
Maybe you can save weight since it's made out of sheet metal, but isn't the 18 heavier than a 16a4?

I got nothing for the folding stock bit, but I also don't carry a rifle in a car for a living.

It's not available. And prices were thrown out from as low as $1200. Now I think it would had been a lot higher but in early 2000s that was a lot for that market.
I'm talking about the Masada which was under 7lbs. And there's the ergos.

Probably came down to this. Imo I think it's a far better platform, but it was a good decision to stay with the m16 because cost. They're proven to be reliable enough, though I dont like the caliber all that much. If I'm in a position where I can choose what platform I'm using acr's my first choice though. It would be so nice to be able to swap calibers in the field with basically no tools, start stripping mags off everyone and re-purposing their ammo too.

lmao this is some looney tunes shit

it's your average american civilian range toy

Oh, you meant modern ar18 derivative. I dunno, man. Scar 16 and MCX on paper should have made a dent too. But established user base is just such a powerful moat to have in business.

The SCAR has a lot going for it. But it's not near perfection like the Masada was. It's heavy, not tooless, and the ergonomics aren't for everyone. The MCX was trash from the start and that company should had just made the a 550 variant.

only 45.3m? Isnt that the cost of like 50 2000lb jdam bombs? thats nothing. military is lazy.

But what would you rather have
50 bombs and m16/m4 that you know get the current job done
OR
An untested new gun that could be a complete failure or cost you a lot of unknown money down the line.

Personally, I like explosions.

No, but if you make something that looks, walks, and quacks like an AR but is significantly more expensive than an AR, it simply isn't going to sell well.

>What went wrong Jow Forums?
- Debuted at nearly double the estimated street price
- Debuted with a 1/9" twist barrel when 1/7" was already the standard for these sorts of rifles
- M4 profile barrel made it front heavy which a lot of people don't like
- Some reliability issues early on stemming from the gas regulator ports not being sized quite right
- User unfriendly quick change barrel system lead to perceived issues with accuracy
- Spotty support from Bushmaster and no barrel kits for you to even do anything with the quick change (though aftermarket has been taking care of this since like 2012).

Everything so far is currently fixed except the quick change system, but the piston craze is over now and everyone wants cheap AR-15s. They would do really well to incorporate some of the improvements from the Remington Defense ACR like the handguards (which they're supposedly doing), weight reduction, and the aluminum lower that allows you to change the pistol grip.
It absolutely is reliable and does hold zero. A lot of people have issues when they screw with the quick change system because the manual isn't clear on how it really works. You don't just let it click and call it good, you do have to torque it and ensure you torque it down consistently. It's still a barrel nut after all.
>It's not available.
They're available.

>They're available.
Negative.

gun.deals/search/apachesolr_search/604206129833

Yes I'm aware of the ACR, bucko.

So then what are you talking about it being 'unavailable' for?

The ACR isn't the Masada.

I mean in the same way the Dutch AR-10 isn't the Hollywood AR-10 I guess. The whole thread is about the ACR, though, and the guy you replied to didn't mention the Masada. So, why are you talking about the Masada?

Maybe read up on it.

Instead of being vaguely passive aggressive you can express your point.

Because this is "ACR thread #21309672076" with another user that doesn't know what the Masada is or just thinks it's the ACR.

Please go on about what major differences you think there are between the ACR and Masada.

Again try reading. The better question is what's the same and it's pretty much just the stock.

Support your argument.
>The better question is what's the same and it's pretty much just the stock.
Far more than the stock. The only real difference is the gas block becoming accessible from the front of the handguard and the charging handle assembly being pushed forward.

>Support your argument.
Google retard. How young are you? The magpul exploded diagram is like the 3rd thing to come up... Holy shit you kids are fucking retarded these days. It's not like the Masada wasn't the hottest thing at shotshow for a long fucking time. Oh wait.

>The magpul exploded diagram is like the 3rd thing to come up
Yea, I know. What is on there that you think is not present on the ACR?

Seriously, learn to argue.

>What is on there that you think is not present on the ACR?
You got me there for a bit, bud.

>I have no idea what I'm talking about
That's what I thought.

@40995875
No more

No it wouldn't as no real advantage over an M4A1. It still wouldn't be good enough for a LMG or DMR.

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Rifles definitely aren't that cheap for the US military. The last M4 contract FN got had them at 640 dollars per rifle.

>muh masada
Painful truth you can swallow is that the Masada wouldn't have been the AR killer either.

Ignore him, he thinks the Masada has some killer feature the ACR doesn't.

The two things I said it wouldn't replace. Try not being esl.
Are you kids really that bad at google?
The major points of the Masada over the ACR.
-Under 7 lbs
-toolless design for rails etc.
-ar15 barrels (different extension)
-toolless quick change barrel system that actually worked
And a lot of smaller features that never made it after Cerberus raped it. Like the trigger kits, easy swap lowers for caliber changes, etc.

Again the ACR has nothing in common with the Masada except the stock. It's a major fuck up.

Stagnation? You mean how the market has exploded in the last 5 years? You have more choice in the market now more than ever. You're no longer limited to basic bitch plastic furniture and quad rails. Denying the innovation that's occurred is willfully ignorant.

The Freedom Group

>-Under 7 lbs
Yea, they were dreaming with that figure but the estimated weight being different means nothing. 7.9lbs with a 16" barrel is getting pretty close for something that retains all the features.
>-toolless design for rails etc.
Are you talking about the push pin handguard? Because you are a moron if you think the ACR doesn't have it.
>-ar15 barrels (different extension)
It can use AR-15 barrels, just install the gas system parts. If you think you were going to be able to buy a stripped barrel and just slap it into the Masada, you are a moron.
>-toolless quick change barrel system that actually worked
It has that and it does work.
>Like the trigger kits
It can do that, but there's no market for it because it's a stupid as fuck idea. No one swaps triggers around so much they need this 'feature' and save for a couple of people the idea has gone completely unused.
>easy swap lowers for caliber changes
You seriously think that not having a 7.62x39 lower available from Bushmaster makes it a totally different rifle?

>market has exploded
No, it's imploded.

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What the fuck is even happening there that could be caused by the rifle? Wouldn't that be a magazine issue?

>I didn't read
The weight figure is the actual Masada rifle BEFORE Cerberus fucked it all up with the ACR and added the weight

The ACR requires tools retard. The rest is just pure dis info. The ACR does not use ar15 barrels at all. You can cut one up I guess. The Masada as I said used ar15 barrels with a different extension.

You're just an idiot. A fanboy too for a shit company.

You can do that with lots of rifles. If the magazine feed lips aren't stiff or supported well enough you can pop out a round with a forceful insertion of the magazine. Never had it happen, though, I only use PMAGs, USGIs, and DD mags.
>The weight figure is the actual Masada rifle
No, it isn't. That was the claim. No official weight was ever given for the like 3 prototype rifles that ever existed.
>The ACR requires tools retard.
For what? The rail? No, it doesn't. You push a pin, it comes off an on. You've obviously never even handled an ACR, why are you arguing?
>The rest is just pure dis info.
Straight facts as can be confirmed by anyone who has actually touched an ACR.
>The ACR does not use ar15 barrels at all.
Literally the only difference is the gas port sizing. Any .750" journal AR-15 barrel will work.
>The Masada as I said used ar15 barrels with a different extension.
Which means it's LESS compatible with AR-15 barrels than the ACR, since the barrel extension is not removable.

>No, it isn't.
Keep up the disinfo retard.

how do you like the DD mags? I've gotten a few free, but I stack the pmags deep due to price

I'm the same as you, I've gotten a few free. My DD mags have been reliable, I like them aesthetically (especially in the ACR), they seat easy on a closed bolt when loaded up, and I appreciate the extra couple of rounds. But at double the price of Gen 2 PMAGs I don't think any of that really justifies it.

>start stripping mags off everyone and re-purposing their ammo too.
The reason we have nothing that does this is because it's a bad idea.

t. Never dissasembled an ACR

Can someone explain to me how the fuck this is happening?

see

ACR doesn't require any tools, this is coming from an actual owner.

He was arguing with an actual owner the whole time.

muh masada concept doesn't change that the ACR is gay lmao
Shoulda got an AR or a SCAR, smoothbrains

>SCAR
>Calling anyone else a smoothbrain

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The spaghetti SCAR (ARX-180) did a good job of checking all those boxes, minus the AR15 barrels, and comes in at a $900 price point.

I like mine alright. It's not perfect, but it's a good rifle that scratches the "not an AR" itch, along with my X95 Tavor.

>M-my ACR is just as good!

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It's not just as good, it's superior.

I'm sorry, I thought I was dealing with a regular run of the mill retard, not someone who was genuinely mentall ill and delusional.

Sorry, I think you might have confused me with a SCAR owner.

>You mean how the market has exploded in the last 5 years?
Yea if you want to own 30 slightly different AR-15s.

>It still wouldn't be good enough for a LMG or DMR.
Says who?

Says the military, who don't use the ACR in any capacity whatsoever because it's an objective failure of a rifle lmao

I've got a 10" SBR FDE ARX on hold at the FFL waiting for paperwork to clear and I'm pretty excited for it, desu.
the thing is super light for a piston driven gun.
I'm personally much more impressed with it in person than at first glance online. I do wish I could change the grip, though, but it'll have to do, I suppose.
what sight are you using with it?
the package I got includes BUIS, so I'm considering keeping the gun light with just iron sights, or perhaps put an ACRO on it.
do you have any issues with the charging handle? do you use it left-side or right-side charging?

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See: all other weapons that were ignored due to normies with ar-15s

the FNC
the fitelite scr
the tnw survival rifle
the honey badger or other integrally suppressed ar-15 variants
etc.

(NOT the t85, that's just a flat out copy)

>Left hand charging with right side eject.
Essentially the FAL manual of arms.
Also get one of these, your fingers will thank me later.
berettausa.com/en-us/arx-char-hndl-ext-unpackaged/c8a366/

What people and gunmakers don't understand is that people don't want a bulky or heavy rifle, especially one in 5.56. Look at almost every (non-AR) rifle introduced in the past 20 years. The handguards are huge (to cover the piston systems). The receivers are overly large, like a pregnant space ship. The stocks look like Tonka truck.

People want a short, sleek, light rifle. Not a bloated 8lb rifle (unloaded without optic).

By being absolutely pointless in every regard

>Buh buh buh muh caliber swap
Doesn't mean dick. You needed a combo of new bolt carrier. Lower receiver and barrel of you wanted to swap from 556 to fucking anything else that took different mags, like 7.62x39 if you had any remote hopes of the gun working. Else it was pointless, you were literally better off buying a second gun.

ARs already cornered this market, won first place, went hope, put the trophy on the shelf and started raising a family by the time any of you idiots first discovered the ACR through MW2

>Buh buh buh muh toolless design
Fucking and?

I will never replace a barrel in the field. For military purposes, they will never be replaced in the field. And everything that goes into this makes a mechanically weaker and more complex system. Fun thing to forget, toolless designs need to be able to be removed without tools. Tools go a long way in building an extremely rigid and robust rifle.

That's the only two things the ACR had over a barebones AR. And even then, a year after the fact, those features were had.

The ACR wasn't an AR killer, it wasn't a SCAR killer and the SCAR for all the brain dead worshipbit gets, with all the similar featuresz only ended up being a Seal killer if anything

It just comes down to people being hipsters, being "bored" with the AR as a weapon system and bitching about the lack of variety. It works and it keeps working, changing for the sake of change is a waste of time and resources.

It's whole gimmick was you could change calibers on the fly.
Who in the actual fuck gives a shit about that?

wow, a 5000 dollar magazine unloading tool

>ACR
>5000$
what third world country do you live in?

hcar is better

I didn’t realize M-Lok was revolutionary and game changing for the firearms industry.

So it has that much in common with the ACR then

You cant make a $3000 dollar rifle that is less accesible and less modifiable than the AR

And it's still crazy that people complain about variety. You can make an AR whatever the fuck you want; the only thing that stays somewhat constant is the upper and lower receiver, and you can even snowflake those up if you want.

If you think the only accessories that have advanced are handguards, you might want to KYS.

God the FNC needs a comeback. Surely FN could take some space from those POS pistols they make and manufacture some FNC semi autos here. I would cream my shorts. FNCs with modern furniture. hnnng

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Jews that happened

>The Jews are why my ACR is a piece of shit

>What went wrong Jow Forums? It should have been a success.

1:9 twist barrel
Heavy, especially for the $$
Doesn't do much an AR can't
It's been 8 years, the promised caliber changes are just starting

This has to be the most boring time alive to be a gun owner. So fucking boring. ARs, ARs, ARs. Glocks, glocks, glocks.

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>tfw one of the only alternatives to an AR is chunky as fuck.
I'll take what I can get, but damn.