What are Jow Forums thoughts on bullpup design?

Definitely the future.

They dont have a current problem that isn't technically surpassable.

Fundamental 'issues':
>ejection and handedness (still surpassable, but its non-trivial)
>slightly more awkward reloading (not an issue for a military gun)
>less mounting space (but it's a smaller gun, so duh)
Everything else is just a matter of getting a good design.

Woah that's so cyberpunk

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Soviets passed up game changing technology for the AK-74

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They create more problems than they solve, their triggers will always suck.

>Is it inevitable future of firearms?
No because it's not an AR or an AK.

I hate to break it to you user but 5.56x45 was the game changer

As a non-American, what's the deal with that grip? Is not being able to wrap my thumb around the grip supposed to stop me from carrying out a mass shooting? It seems like a really passive-aggressive non-solution, but then again, in my experience that's what liberals specialize in.

they aren't progressing towards anything
progress isn't the right word, it's all about change
effecting change gives them political power

here they banned flash hiders but not muzzle brakes, compensators, or suppressors

Do you guys know if the Polish MSBS ever became something?

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The assault weapon bans laws are made by people who don't know how firearms work. There's no logic.

Action:Gas operated, vertically sliding bolt

holy shit

MSBS is still vaporware

What is the best and most reliable bullpup rifle? This confidence applies to version 7.62?

yes, once we've finally moved to electrically ignited caseless ammunition the 'killer' bad trigger goes away.

There is a chance that neo fudd fags will keep front loading rifles the norm for another 30 years, but hopefully we can at least get caseless munitions to be mainstream.

since it already exists, and public opinion hasn't changed, i'd say no.

no, it has a lot of growing up to do.

>complicated mechanism, natural high price
>takes some skill to repair more then a standard gun
>has some issue with ejection of spent rounds

the problem is literally the AK and AR are able to do everything a bull pup can do, better and more reliably.

there is a place for bull-pups... as an SMG/ sub-caliber carbine/CQB. the bull pup will never fully replace the traditional firearm without some serious redesign.

TL;DR bull-pups are not bad, but they aren't great, which is the problem

All in all bullpups are meh, they’ve advanced to the point of being on par with regular designs (most of the time) but show no signs of further advance. They may have a decent future as a pdw, but not for much more imho.

>no one has truly spent the money to refine it
that's where you're wrong kiddo

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It works well if you trained with it. Still works i you didn't. Same goes for standard.

Aesthetics wise, it reminds of a frog. I don't know why. But it's very much a gun for frogs.

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Im having a lot of fun with my new (((Tavor X95))
the back-up sights are just fine but i do want to get a simple optic for it but dont really know where to start

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T H I S

Why does that thing have the FR rear trunnion and all the bits that go with it?

KEK

yes, eventually they will work out the problems

exactly. its a law to frustrate and it works.

Give it time to mature. Its certainly a good way to get a 20 inch barrel rifle to fit onto an asian manlet.

The only reasons the AR is the 'perfect' rifle is because they spent decades refining and improving the damn thing and it has a lot of inertia due to how wide spread the AR is and how much support there is for the AR.
Give the bullpup more time and have more manufacturers go for it before you seriously compare them.

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where is the cocking handle

>mfw
Being left-handed in the firearm world is suffering

The army's ordered about 10,000 units and the civilian version can be had for about 2000$.
I've fired a few rounds and the trigger was too heavy for my taste. Other than that it was very good. Accurate and felt rugged.

It's the cheekrest

This dude is a retard. You can change the side the AUG ejects the bullets from very easily.

Ofc I meant case and not bullet. Fuck me I'm retarded.
Anyways it's designed for comfortable use on either side for right or left handed people.

is it reciprocating?

You are completely wrong. The newer bullpups coming out today have pretty good triggers so that problem is being fixed. Also the reloading is not less efficient than with say an AR15. If you think you can't reload a bullpup as fast if not faster than an AR15 with training then you are sipping the coolaid of the retards who will only ever use AR15s and buy 20 of them because they are unoriginal. Bullpups are a perfectly viable option for firearms, they just need some more development which they are finally getting nowadays, just slowly.

It's a design built with a specific purpose in mind. It has its advantages and disadvantages because of that.

It seems inevitable. Eventually we'll have a reliable commonly used ambi ejection mechanism. The MDR has a fairly simple "forward"-ish ejection mech. I feel like future designs will be based on that idea. Plenty of other solution though. Like the Russian ADS. Kel-Tec RDB.

When psuh-through cartridges come into service (either cased or caseless) we'll definitely see bullpups from more countries. It's too damn easy to do bottom ejection push-through designs. Stuff like the Steyr ACR.

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naturally you fuckwit

>Eventually we'll have a reliable commonly used ambi ejection mechanism.
Like the P90?

>pretty good triggers
There is no bullpup on the planet that ships with a trigger that's even remotely fucking passable. Literally ALL of them, including the Desert Tech, ship with a >8lb trigger that has a shitload of takeup and a good bit of creep.

>have to swap shoulders to peek or pie a corner
>brass to face
Not an issue with traditional layout rifles because the ejection port is well forward of your face. This was solved 30ish years ago with the F2000's forward ejection or the P90's downward ejection though.

hnnnnggg

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>generally heavier than a comparable barrel length traditional rifle (>8lbs for all but the X95)
>generally shit trigger (yes they're improving, but unless you're counting $350 aftermarket triggers they're still generally worse than a bone stock AK trigger)
>fat/bulky so doesn't play nice with large helmets, gas masks, etc
>needs to be forward or downward ejecting to not BTFO shooters of the wrong handedness or when having to swap shoulders due to situation or injury
>excessive muzzle climb during rapid fire/auto fire due to neutral or ass-heavy weighting
>2-3x more expensive than a comparably reliable trad-format rifle
>mediocre to piss-poor accuracy compared to trad-format rifles
>everybody but da joos seems hung up on making a 20" barrel instead of making the tiniest fucking gun they can
Some of these issues can be addressed. Some of them may be able to be addressed in the near future. But not all of them.

Bullpups are situationally useful. A really compact one like the X95 is a wonderful idea to fill the role that PDWs were intended for without having to complicate military/police logistics and still retaining both AP capability and wounding capability (PDW rounds you have to choose one or the other due to the very short bullets they fire that don't tumble). But we are a long way from them being a good choice for most roles.

I wouldn't say the MDR is simple. Far too much of the ejection system is powered by the very end of bolt travel so the gas has to be turned up and the recoil is harsher than average. Its probably still more sensitive to ammo even after the fixes.

RDB still holds the grand prize for braindead simple yet brilliant ambi ejection system. It will be moot once cased telescoped cartridges become the norm though, but there's always a chance that the other conventional polymer case designs get selected instead in order to satisfy their eternal AR autism.

Bullpups are not situationally useful, their entire concept is to be useful in all situations. Simultaneously short enough and long enough, that is the exact opposite of being specialized. The perfect weapon for rank and file infantry who will be tossed into every situation imaginable with just one single gun to rely on and won't notice a somewhat inferior trigger because the rifle is still more accurate than they are.

*more sensitive to ammo than traditional ejector designs

Except they're all currently heavier than an M4. And fatter than an M4, and don't play nice with their issued gas mask so they're having to point fire. Oh, and aren't compatible with NVGs because the only place to put the optic interferes with them. And they don't fit short or tall people. And they're even more worthless on auto or burst due to the insane muzzle climb. Oh, and they're hard to shoot prone because they're also really tall weapons. Oh, and they either don't play nice with or simply can't have a bipod.

t. Fingerlet

Downward ejection is pretty awesome for ambi shooting, the only issue I have with it is the inability to check the chamber.

Hit the nail on the fucking head. But basically it played out like this:
>We want to ban AssaultRifle15 and AfricanKiller47 but banning by name is too dumb even for us
>Let's ban pistol grips
>*people make rifles with grip fin which are functionally the same, if slightly more annoying*
>Whaaaat you're exploiting a loophole! It's the same rifle!

So they get to maintain the appearance of **doing something** while ensuring that they can continue to rail against ebil guns, makers, and owners to rile up their base.

Get a bush bell trs-50 for 50 bucks, use it till it breaks, and base your next purchase on that. It’s a decent little cheap shit sight that will give you an idea of what you might like in a red dot (bigger or smaller, more dot options, maybe a holo instead) or maybe you’ll want a scope.

Aw shit, meant to reply to

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Why don't bullpups have proper trigger guards?

Because bullpup users are too dumb to know which finger is supposed to pull the trigger, s they have to cram their whole hand on it.

Because unlike regular rifles, they don't have the mags in front to protect your hands in case...
That is why they have hand guards instead of trigger guards.

>vertically sliding bolt
What

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the ammo feeding piece is separate from the locking mechanism. So you have one tiny piece moving back and forth to feed/extract ammo and a separate sliding block to lock it. I can find the patent image right now but this diagram is reasonably close.

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*can't find the patent

god I can't type

Yeah except 5.56 doesn't fit nicely in that kind of feed mech. 5.7 is shorter and has no taper (sucks for extraction, 5.7 is lacquered). The design is quite simple and effective otherwise.

is there a 9mm bull-pup carbine worth anything?

>there is a place for bull-pups... as an SMG/ sub-caliber carbine/CQB.
Why hasn't anyone seriously developed this? You could get a ridiculously small PDW or subgun if you made it a bullpup, and since it would be a weapon of self-defence and last resort, all the complaints about ergonomics and everything else would be negligible.

>like this

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What's your 2000 dollar 4 moa rifle shooting at?

Technically all the grip-in-mag SMGs are bullpup.

Pistol rounds generally don't gain enough velocity from an extra couple inches of barrel to matter anyway.

>grip-in-mag SMGs are bullpup.
Grip in mag isn't bullpup except in very very rare occasions.
Bullpup mean action behind the trigger. grip in mag usually has the action above the trigger.

except they do?

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Not until you can open them up like an AR. Desert Tech had an excellent idea about drilling a small hole in the breechface and having blow out holes in case one of the rounds severely malfunctions. Another little thing people complain about is that it isn't front heavy, so there is a bit more muzzle rise. You can just use your left arm to control it better. Silencers are becoming more popular, so if you smack a suppressor on the end of your bullpup, should solve that problem by adding more weight forward.
But even with their problems, bullpups are fucking awesome. Easy to point, easy to sling except I always grab onto the magazine instead of the grip, but practice can ameliorate that, and easy to fire with one hand.

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people were asking that question when the original AUG came out

yet here we are

your answer is no

>yet here we are
>implying
there are more bullpup designs than ever and military adoption of the bullpup is stronger than ever

Can’t to see hi desert dog bull pup. Other than that not feeling buy on any of them now, would still rather an raptor or just more ar/glock stuff.

EAT IT! EEEEAT MY BRAAAAASSS! eatiteatiteatiteatiteatiteatit

It's beutiful, the entire bolt is on a little arm and the bolt and striker moves up after the round is in the chamber and locks in place to strike, then it moves back down again to force the case into a forward excretion tube and slide the next round into place.

Basically it's a gas piston falling block mechanism but upside-down, back-to-front AND inside-out.

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>Implying the M4 is the end of it all... There are more than one situation where the M4 was not the best gun suited and was outclassed by even a FAMAS. Numerous occurences in Mali are prime samples of this.

Is that bulgarian plum bakelite? Very nice user

>situationally useful
>B-BUT SOME SITUATIONS!
Yeah no shit. Do you not understand what "situational" means?

The M4 or Ak-100 series are still undisputedly the best all-rounder rifles. They are significantly better than bullpups in 90% of situations.

90% look like shit
>Pic included

>The 4 MOA bullpup

It's a rugged sub-sonic gun for use by russian traffic cops, it's not supposed to be pretty.

Bullpups are the best rifle put there for standard infantry.

So long as its designed correctly the fact that you can accurately shoot a bullpup 1 handed gives it so many more advantages especially in close and urban combat.

In Afghanistan rifle length aint gonna matter too much.

In Eletric boogaloo 2 or any kind of PMC Armed Transport the bullpup will always be superior. Especially if you lose one of your arms during the conflict.

fucking SBR laws keeping us from experimentation

>remove recoil pad
>call it a pistol
just tell them you're not supposed to shoulder it lol

thanks ill look into that
does great! I got it primarily for innawoods and cause fuck you i have income to spend on anything I want. Also I have a match grade M1 Garand for paper target dick measuring.

I think the better question is when bullpub deaign is married to the Luger action, creating the true pinnacle of all firearms.

Would it be too hard to make a larger caliber firearm in the P90 configuration? Is it the design of the 5.7 rounds that allow for those long 50 round mags?

Bullpups are retarded

Short person here:
Bullpups fit me just fucking fine.

Asian manlet here

Bullpup is less unwieldy than a M16 for me due to its length.

based samefag

Nope, i'm white.

>Not until you can open them up like an AR
The SAR-21 is easily opened up by popping a single takedown pin and sliding the upper and lower receiver apart.

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You've never tried an FS2000 then. Thing has something like a 14.1" LOP (average for a rifle is 13").
Collapsible stocks have existed for AR pattern rifles for literally 60 years.

Last bullpup I handled was an MSAR (aug clone.) One of the most comfortable rifles i've ever shot, and one of the shortest despite the longer than average barrel.