Looking to discuss the viability of a shotgun for active shooter/unrest/prolonged "combat". I notice most people set up a carrier for use with an ar or similar rifle that they might keep in a car or house with the rifle for use when you suspect sustained danger. Is the range or reload speed disadvantage associated with a shotgun too much to overcome? Thinking of setting up my carrier with a shell rig and running my 590a1
Also post your scattergats
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Semi automatic’s probably your best bet for force on force, one less thing to worry about in the heat of the moment.
I guess the tradeoff of some slightly faster fire vs slightly less reliability would be up to the individual. Either way you're dealing with a shotguns main downsides when compared to an intermediate caliber rifle
You're at a major disadvantage against rifles with a shotgun in most scenarios. Shotgunfags will sob and post atypical combat scenarios where in their fever crazed mind it comes out ahead, but if you're thinking a firefight situation rather than a simple break in defense, you're better off with a semi auto rifle capable of taking full capacity mags.
PS, I own 2 shotguns.
>You're at a major disadvantage against rifles with a shotgun in most scenarios.
LOLno
C'mon now user, shotguns are niche anymore.
short shucking a pump can happen
when you have reliable/consistent ammo a semi will be just as, if not more reliable than your 590
>C'mon now user, shotguns are niche anymore.
Pretty big niche though. If you need to put a fuckhuge hole in something or somebody at under 50 yards, there's nothing better than a shotgun.
In an urban/wooded area I think it's a viable weapon system. House to house combat, where the range issues are not a problem and the advantages of shot are more pronounced, would be the best case scenario. Especially if you're talking about a civil unrest situation where body armor is less of an issue. Easy to obtain ammunition, versatility, and very high single shot stop percentages make it a decent choice in a heavily urbanized area, and in wooded areas where combat ranges are unlikely to exceed 150 yards. Big issues are ammo weight, ammo size, limited capacity and slow reload/rof. However, if you were in a group then those disadvantages could be offset by quite a bit. But, if you can't depend on someone else to pick up your slack you can be at a severe disadvantage at range. Slugs can be used pretty accurately out to 150 to 200 yards if you know how to push it, so your not completely fucked, but its not a good idea to engage someone that far with it. Overall, I think an rifle is a better choice, but if you have a shotgun you probably aren't as screwed as some anons would make you think.
You definately should always keep a supply of reliable ammo. The only issue I can see is if it's an extended scenario, how hard is it going to be to procure more ammo that doesn't cause cycling issues? I know some semi autos can be more finicky than others.
Active shooters almost always crumble as soon as anyone's fighting back in any capacity, return fire with anything would probably end it pretty quick. If you're talking about a coordinated and motivated terror attack, that might be another story.
This makes me wanna take my shotty to the woods.
Train to not work your pump gun like a woman? And sure with a specific set of ammo the semi likes, it can be just as reliable. More than? Pushing it.
I could see range being an issue in some sort of battlefield scenario, but in more realistic cases where you would pull the rifle/shotgun out of your car I find it doubtful you'd be engaging at more than 100 yards. If you carry slugs and buck (or whatever your preferred load) I'd feel comfortably equipped. Train to top off quickly, practice emergency reload drills, and know where your shotgun's poi is at 100 yards
As an LEO, I carry both on duty. Shotgun is good for felony stops since it actually fits in the cabin gun rack and its good for dissipating large crowds at a bar or night club when shootings happen (believe it or not racking a shotgun will send people scattering).
Rifle is my choice for large building searches holding perimeters, and active shooter events.
Each has pros and cons.
While shotguns really shine at hunting and home defense, there's an established place for them in military/police combat as well. If I had to engage 1 to 4 hostiles at less than 50 yards, I'd grab my shotty and a pistol. Farther out than that, I'd take the AR. A shotgun with a 6 round tube can put out 56 .32 caliber pellets in a couple seconds when loaded with buckshot, and that would discourage most villains from fucking with your family or property.
Personally, I think this would be the best setup, in terms of speed. But it might be expensive unless you know how to rig one up from scratch (which I think very few people could).
>shooting buckshot at hostiles 50 yards away
>being liable for every pellet that comes out of the barrel
> Huge spread
>what is a 1oz slug?
>where in their fever crazed mind it
Talk about projecting lol, yeah buddy you go ahead and LARP for your realistic NAVY SEAL scenario. We'll just keep a shotgun for self defense, you can go to James Yeager school and learn to fight off terrorists in case in the middle of bumfuck nowhere Al Queda decides to shoot up the trailer park.
this user basically summed up my thoughts on the matter the tool that can most effectively address the greatest number of potential variables in some given scenario is the tool to use imo
it seems to me that, generally speaking, shotguns become more viable when the variables are fewer
cool thread, op
what light do you have on there? I need a light solution for my shotgun.
Other than SHTF, when would someone realistically be firing at someone past 100 yards? As someone else stated, if shotguns are only for niche roles, that's a PRETTY BIG niche role, a gun that is extremely easy to hit your target under 100 yards with, that is extremely devastating at typical home defense distances. That is an extremely versatile gun for an outdoorsman as well.
On a conventional battlefield (engaging multiple highly trained opponents in an open environment), I can agree with that. But on a civilian-versus-civilian scenario, it's decent for extremely close engagements (which is usually the norm for typical home defense scenarios). And liberal NPCs are a tad more open to shotguns than modern rifles anyway (just ask that Biden guy). I mean, not everyone has the luxury of getting the latest and greatest technology either.
So as a civilian, you have to learn to work with what you have. It's not only the mature thing to do, but also keeps you out of trouble with financial and psychological grandiosity.
And this is why some of us still cling to our "outdated" shotguns.
>viability of a shotgun for active shooter/unrest/prolonged "combat"
Your chances of survival exponentially increase if you have SLAM fire, bonus if you have drum mags and a vepr
tlr-3
I'm lefty and roll the constant-on switch to the right w/ my thumb
the surefire forend lights are good (probably ideal for most things, as far as I can tell), but pricey
Cool, thanks.
>a decent choice in a heavily urbanized area
In actual urban areas, you'd have to worry about people with a rifle in tall buildings. Dense suburbs to lightly urban areas only, IMO. Anywhere with more than 3 to 5 story buildings, you want a rifle.
>Other than SHTF, when would someone realistically be firing at someone past 100 yards?
shtf is the only situation I can think of
>extremely easy to hit your target under 100 yards
I disagree
50yds or less (preferably less, around 30yds) is effective shotgun range, and (especially under pressure) the shots are not much (if any) easier to make with a shotgun than with a rifle
>Huge spread @ 50 yards
>Is the range or reload speed disadvantage associated with a shotgun too much to overcome?
Nah, just have to know your gear and go at your speed. You can use slugs and buckshot will work effectively to 50 yards or more depending on load. All that being said, you don't have an ar15 with a 30 round mag full of boolits, so you got to take care with your shots.
Use what you got man, get a carrier with some sort of universal webbing and set it up for shotgun now and if you get an ar15 or some other rifle in the future you can swap out pouches for the ones you need.
So it goes back to silly scenarios. An active shooter isn't a silly scenario, but the idea your AR will be there conveniently for you, is. Even in Las Vegas, in a country music show, full of don't tread on me bumper stickers, glock hat wearing, AR15 in their pick up trucks cuckservatives, no one was able to get to an AR in time. You CC your AR on your body in case some Looney takes his gayR to town? In an urban, suburban, or rural area 99.99% of self defense situations will happen under 21 yards. Most around 7 give or take. Even if the fight gets taken outside, unless you have the worlds widest street, you're looking at 20 yards. The use of long guns for combat for the average civilian, is relegated to home defense, police work, or incredibly unlikely shtf scenarios. The latter which you'll only have your gun if you know ahead of time what you will be facing.
And I am willing to bet, that's not even the flight control stuff. Just random buckshot. That cardboard box is around the size of a human torso if that's a regular paper plate. Assuming the paper plate is the stomach area, that's a dead man on your hands at 50 yards.
Go back to /v/ buddy. Shotgun physics are more of your understanding there.
>You CC your AR
You CC your shotgun?
The only one making up silly scenarios is you.
I use this set up. Works well. Easy to engage light on and off
Did your department give you a choice of shotgun or rifle or did you pick shotgun over rifle?
A spread of over a foot with random patterning... yup, Nice try. When youre liable for every pellet then it does make a difference.
>says the one with SHTF fantasies.
I have to use a shotgun weekly for work. I would never hit the streets loaded with buckshot. A slug is more effective at killing, penetrating, and the precision isnt even comparable
I use both. Both of which are personally owned. I think the
See
There was next to no chance anyone carrying a firearm could have made a difference at Vegas, the victims were all in a body dense killzone being fired upon from a superior position, with bullet trajectory pre-calculated for the area they were in allowing for the shooter to pump out rounds as fast as he could. I doubt most could even figure out where the shots were coming from to even return fire. That, in a shtf situation, is literally the worst position to be in. Lots of potential incoming fire directions, little to no cover or concealment, and returning fire is a hail mary. What we are assuming, is that you are able to get to a defensable location, and can actually engage the enemy. If you can't do either of those you are in deep shit.
Yeah, streets in most urban areas are deathtraps anyways. Next to zero cover, surrounded by potential enemy positions, its not a good place to be. My position is that if you are fighting in a building, or engaging in distances between buildings, then a shotgun should be adequate. If you find yourself out of cover in any urban area you are automatically surrounded by potential marksman positions. Its more important to remove yourself from that situation and gain an advantageous position than to attempt to directly engage someone in a superior position relative to yourself. In a heavy urban area being out of cover, regardless of your engagment distance, is very bad. Of course, like I said, a rifle is preferable, but even in a big city if you are smart and play to your/your weapon/gears strengths and don't take huge risks you can make it.
Its like you don't even remember the memes about leos cowering behind cover with their ARs for minutes on end instead of doing anything. There was even a thing about an ex military eceleb getting caught on camera trying to get one of them to give him his rifle so he could return fire instead of just sitting there hanging out.
If you have a rifle in your vehicle it may very well be within reach during an active shooter event. A bigger concern is going to be the tactically loitering leos reaction to you trying to get involved.
>ex military eceleb getting caught on camera trying to get one of them to give him his rifle so he could return fire instead of just sitting there hanging out.
Implying that any cop would hand some stranger his firearm. Especially an instagram trust fund baby who failed out of seal school. Also the same guy who ran to his truck and returned with a 1911 to return fire to a guy 32 stories up.
But that's not true either
>Implying that any cop would hand some stranger his firearm
No, i didn't. Thats literally what the cop told him too. My point is that retrieving a rifle from a vehicle is entirely possible, as LEOs did that exact thing in anons example of a case where he says that didnt happen. A person could certainly do the same, but theyll likely be ventilated or arrested by those same tactically loitering LEOs that arent doing anything about the threat.
OP here, I love the protac streamlight on mine. I am correct handed so I can easily activate with my thumb and it's a nice ledge to slap the pump forward on empty chamber drills. Some people don't have rails on the pump, or if they do, don't like using them. So up to you
Only 3 scatterbois posted itt, come on guys
>As a faggot who was bullied in highschool and now seeks to be an even bigger faggot in adult life, let me give you advice on shit I know nothing about.
>cop stole my weed now all cops are mean bullies! REEEEEE!
And what real world experience have you had, kiddo?
Kek this.
>huuuur muh wayd
Cope.
Nobody likes or respects your occupation, get over yourselves.
Replying to your own post... bold move. Its okay little NEET, you'll grow up into an upstanding adult eventually. Shit, you might even pay my salary one day when you start paying taxes :D
>:D
you can't type like a 12-yr old meme posting retard and look big and tough at once, that's why you were bullied and mother doesn't love you.
>All that projecting
>Acting serious on a japanese image board
>Thinking anything you say actually matters to a complete stranger
You'll figure things out one day dude and maybe you won't be so angry all the time. Lose some weight, apply for that job you know you deserve, and get a girlfriend with a small waist and big ass to make you food. Things will start to look up, I promise.
This is a work in progress.
And this is the light I made from a mountain bike light.
I ‘membah you
Have you tested it with slugs yet?
Loving this so far. Are you gonna do anything else with that wood or leave it as is? I think it'd look great with either a nice stain and protective coat, or polished smooth by years of handling. Either or.
About 50 00 buck at the range last week. Left the light on the whole time too. Not a problem yet.
That's what I literally said you dumb nigger, OP was not asking about basic home defense. You stupid fags come in every time and instantly move the goalposts or regurgitate what I'm saying in a way that sounds more shotgun friendly. You 12g zealots are mentally ill.
Tryna open the hole in this old police corncob, then I'll stain to match
Stock up on buckshot and slugs. Your set up should have a way to double load, it helps cut the time by a lot.
Not everyone has the money or liberty to get a fancy new AR. That's the first step to maturity
>I need a light solution for my shotgun.
Here's my HD Shockwave with a Lucid C3 double-barreled light attached to it.
ARs cost the same as shotguns now, welcome to the future grandpa.
So I'm sure it's pretty easy to get an AR in California for under $200 then.