Pump vs Semi

Beretta 1301

>You can still miss
If you miss with a shotgun, you'd also have missed with a carbine.

But the recoil on the carbine is lower and follow up shots are faster

semi if i have access to a supply of good ammunition.
pump if i dont.

5-7rds vs 15-30.

I would prefer not to be involved in Trench Warfare.

Mag-fed semi/full.

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heres the thing while its always great to have more on tap
if you fuck up aiming the first 7 rounds will rounds 8-30 really help you?
if you were dumb enough to panic dump the the first 7 will you suddenly regain your wits and remember to aim?
hell no your dumbass will keep pulling till it goes click. at this point you realize you ventilated the shit out of the wall and everything behind it.

now if you regained your wits or there was a lull in the fighting you have time to reload or partially reload the shotgun.

This

The main selling point of a shotgun is stopping power. One fmj intermediate caliber vs anywhere from 8 to 27 pellets of buckshot.

semi for playtime
pump for work

>Are shotguns really that good in close quarters?
Yes. Within their niche the shotgun is GOAT. Even though buckshot is unimpressive on paper, terminal effects are devastating within its performance envelope.

>You can still miss and close range since the shot hasn't spread out yet.
True, you must still aim. Patterns are usually tight to 10m and then begin to open up. This depends on the particular gun and ammo combination. Partial hits are better than misses, and the shotgun gives you more chances to hit.

>Not to mention how slow they are to reload
You have to run the shotgun differently from detachable-mag weapons. The rule of thumb is "shoot two, load two". If you aren't shooting, you should be loading. There are detachable-mag shotguns but they introduce other problems. Buckshot ends fights rather quickly so lower capacity isn't as big a problem as it might seem.

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Pump all the way
i love my model 12 to death
also
>muh slamfire

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>Are shotguns really that good in close quarters?

Not if you expect multiple assailants. As you mentioned, they are painfully slow to reload which is why no military uses them except for niche roles like door breaching.

Pump-action, of course. There's a reason manual-action firearms have been standard police and military issue weapons up to this day and have not been 100% replaced by semi-automatics. Oh wait...

funny enough I just had my maverick 88 die on me, was shooting 3 inch slugs and all the sudden the action became super sluggish and eventually would not move and was completely bound.
my solution to this was to just mortar the fucker on a rock, kept shooting like this and eventually just stopped.
I had a side saddle on this gun and one of the mounting points was a replacement screw for the interrupter (I think that's what it is). anyway fucker backed out and was eventually bent and bound up the action.

I dont remember what my point was. probably something about "no gun is 100% reliable" and "greater variety of shells in muh pump" for when for some reason I an running a full tube of rubber slugs and tear gas. but the truth is they are both great as long as you train and keep your weapon in gud condition.

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negative, properly used a carbine with a 30rd mag will enable you to subdue an average threat through volume of fire. While you might panic and dump your load as a normal fudd, that isnt the case for someone who has had any bit of mout, cqb, or even basic combat training. A 30rd mag enables you to keep a target subdued with accurate semi auto fire while you maneuver to a clear shot. If you put a round into their cover/concealment every second you will maintain suppression while not overly wasting ammunition. A shotgun simply will not give you the capacity to maintain suppression. Unless its mag fed in which case fuck yeah. Also in a one on one cqb situation, where both parties are committed to the engagement, the first one to reload dies. Its as simple as that.

i really really like this image
mind if i save it?

Pretty much. Semi will rek the shit in defensive combat scenarios but any SHTF situation means it's going to last for a while

I really don’t understand this.
If I can maintain a pump, I can maintain a semi.
No one says not to get a semi Glock or AR for SHTF.

>A 30rd mag enables you to keep a target subdued with accurate semi auto fire while you maneuver to a clear shot. If you put a round into their cover/concealment every second you will maintain suppression while not overly wasting ammunition
the fuck are you doing this for in a civilian context? your not in a warzone. you have to account for ever missed shot. those shots have consequences.

this

Semi disadvantages: Often unreliable with lower power ammo. Costs twice as much at minimum.

Pump disadvantages: slower; injury makes it much more difficult to use, user error is always a possibility

Conclusion: buy an AR

>patterns and radius
>shots “Opening” up
>not running a tube full of german nuggets for all scenarios

Never gonna make it desu senpai

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Neither, shotguns are basically worthless. Carbines better for war and defense. Nobody's going to be wasting ammo on hunting in SHTF when the game warden isn't around to fuck you over. Relic of a bygone age.

SHTF isn't real

The accounting is pretty fucking simple if they're still shooting at you. Nothing happened to that guy in Houston mag dumpin at the 5 home invaders. Anybody with a shotgun would be absolutely fucked in a similar situation.

Tell that to the Bielski brothers

This guy gets it

>living in an apartment like a cuck
I succeeded at life and got a house with no fucking neighbors, anyone who invades my shit is getting sustained 7.62 from a 75rd drum

IMO an AR is a vastly superior weapon, but what people have to understand is that a shotgun is a lifestyle gun.

I have great use for a firearm that I can shoot everything with. Hares and grouse, ducks and geese, deer and bear. My mossman gets more use than any other gun I own by far and is a companion on every trip I make out to the bush regardless of what I'm doing. At home it wears an 18.5" barrel that takes 30 seconds to slap on, now I have a great home defense firearm that I'm extremely familiar with.

I don't get that value out of an AR15, and an AR15 doesn't cost $200.

this

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A shotgun is about as worthless as you can get for trench warfare, possibly even worse than a bolt-action rifle.

It's like shooting a guy with 8 .33 cal or 21 .25 cal pistol rounds at the same time

why the fuck does he have a strobelight?
what's he gonna do, give those niggas seizures?

nah nigga fuck off muh raifu

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i think clint smith covered shottys pretty well
''pistols put holes in people, rifles put holes through people, shotguns with the RIGHT load at the RIGHT range will physically remove a chunk of shit off your opponent and dump it on the floor"

I think the idea was to just confuse and scare them, so that nobody would try to fight back

>15-30
not if you live in a cuck state
>5-7
X 8-27 bbs per round

>not if you live in a cuck state
Well then your opinion doesn't matter anyway, because you're a filthy Californian or worst coaster.

thanks lori

Pump because I use my firearms for hunting and where I live semi-automatic guns have magazine restrictions for hunting (so only 3 shots I believe) whereas manually operated like pump has no limitations.
Not that it fucking matters though as the situations where you can get off more than 3 rounds are pretty rare. And I prefer my O/U anyways.

Shotguns are designed for hitting small fast flying targets though..?

Shotguns can be multipurpose tools in SHTF so uber reliability is better. I would like a semi but I'm a poorfag with my maverick 88 and it would get the job done. It also really depends on the type of ammo you're using. Unless your semi shotgun is a benelli m4 then you're going to need a pump to manually cycle the low pressure rounds

Semi, as long as I have one type of ammo to run and that type of ammo reliably cycles it.

Uhh... you really didn't pay attention in school did you? In that segment about WWI the pump action shotgun was so effective it was essentially a terror weapon and Germans would routinely execute soldiers carrying them .

You're right! There aren't many different types of rounds for a shotgun and definitely nothing called "buckshot" that would be ridiculous!

let's get this party started

>falling for the Kaiser's propaganda

Germany was getting is ass handed to them in the international PR battle from the rape of Belgium, Edith Cavell, gas warfare, the nonsense about sawback bayonets, etc., so they tried to hit back with some bullshit about American shotguns which didn't really help their position.

In reality, trench shotguns were universally hated by those who had to carry them, and almost completely ineffectual.

This is true. Also worth noting, since the thread seems to have glossed over it, plastic wasn't really a thing in the First World War. Shotgun shells were either solid brass, or used paper where modern shells have the plastic bits. Since brass shells are expensive and heavy, they tended to use paper shells in the field. This being World War One, the field was a fetid, poisonous swamp, and the paper shells absorbed water, making them expand and get soft, so they were notoriously unreliable.

WW1 is when the all brass shells were used.
Paper was the original choice for shotgun shells but proved unreliable so the military switched to all brass shells.

>tfw will never go back in time to deliver plastic shells to ww1 soldiers

>In reality, trench shotguns were universally hated by those who had to carry them, and almost completely ineffectual.

Why the fuck did we keep using them in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam then?

when has what soldiers liked using had any effect on the brass' decisions to issue a certain weapon?

effectively using a semi can be done with one arm.

Is this girl like 6'6"? Her SCAR looks tiny compared to her

When it comes to shotguns though many departments continue to use pump action because it reliable cycles variable loads that police use from shot to breachers to rubber pellets.
Only a few high end semi-autos will reliably feed and cycle the obsurd spectrum of shotgun ammunitions.

Personally I prefer pump actions because semi autos won’t reliably cycle the fuck all loads I make.

WWI shells weren't even waxed paper. They were just plain paper.

Because army procurement has a long history of making dumb decisions. The concept of issuing shotguns in WWI was only slightly dumb (ignoring the ammo issue) because your only other options were essentially a bolt-action rifle or a pistol. But after the invention of the submachine gun, continuing to insist on a combat role for shotguns is about as retarded as it gets.

Um, sweetie, shotguns can't kill anything like a bolt action rifle can, especially in trenches.

Here's a good video highlighting why shotguns are poorly-suited for combat use.

youtube.com/watch?v=RLHJ4SwivEM

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>that hairline
oof

Pump action with a tube mag filled with dragon's breath

Home invaders beware.

You are full of shit.

Sorry if reality doesn't meet your expectations.

Semi

>IMO an AR is a vastly superior weapon
Lets see you hit flying birds with one

Your reading comprehension is absolute garbage, you know that?

>history wont repeat itself