friend was telling me about a friend whos a felon and IWB CC a cut down black powder revolver. its a cap one and he's convinced its legal, its a little harder to google than i tohught and it seems like a lot of people think you felons can own black powder, and while they cant stop them from buying them i think possession still isnt allowed.
idk maybe im wrong
State: Missouri
>basically pic related
Generally the rule against felons is going to be against carrying weapons I would imagine and a BP pistol is still considered a concealed weapon when loaded and concealed.
bumpie
from what im reading i guess its allowed in missouri but not advised and will more than likely lead to jail. also i may be reading this wrong but i guess every replica black powder is somewhat easy to convert to 45 long colt? maybe?
not a gun person, i just think both of the people in question are idiots
in missouri it is legal to conceal and carry a loaded handgun without a permit
>replicia black-powder REVOLVER
thats what i meant
A black powder pistol is not considered a firearm by the federal gov and almost all states.
Just cause you can legally buy something doesnt mean you can legally do whatever you want with it. I dont know shit about missouri but theres generally some law about things used in crimes being charged as weapon. If a guy robbs a store with a banana. Hes going to be treated like the banana was a gun. Hes going to be charged with robbing a store. It doesnt matter if he legally bought the banana. He still robbed a store.
Whether or not a felon is allowed to carry a black powder pistol will be up to state law. Federal law dors not define blackpowder guns as firearms. Even firearms that are built prior to 1898 (not replicas, genuine built before 1898) cartridge firearms do not legally count as firearms.
However cartridge ammunition is explicity prohibited for felons to possess.
So, if missouri does not explicitly prohibit the possession of "primitive firearms" for felons, then he is technically not violating the law.
seems pretty illegal to me. seems like any of those replica revolvers can be somewhat easily converted for cartridge use, and if not somewhat easily they can still BE done
You have to get conversion cylinders for them, which are legally firearms.
The idea isn't that's it's a loophole to commit crimes with, but a loophole to concealed carry for people that can't legally possess firearms.
it says "may be converted" not 'has been' or 'is converted'
Conversion cylinders are not legally firearms
Is that so? Interesting. I thought I recalled some manufacturers only shipping them to ffls, so I guess I made a false assumption. My bad.
I don't think you should look for legal advice on a vietnamese kombuch brewing forum but simple think if a judge or police officer will care whether its "just black powder" or if you think this would be worth risking time in anal stretching camp.
Still wondering how big bore air guns would practically play into this. For example I bet you $80 a cop in new york state would arrest me and confiscate pic related if I was carrying and he found it on me during some kind of stop. I'd probably get it back and have a potential lawsuit but they wouldn't be like "oh it's just air powered? go on about your day sir!"
>in missouri it is legal to conceal and carry a loaded handgun without a permit
Not for a felon. A loaded black powder weapon is still considered a deadly weapon in all 50 states even though there are no restrictions on buying BP guns. They only become a "deadly weapon" when loaded. Some gangbanger in Fresno was recently arrested for "felon in possession of a firearm" for having a loaded BP pistol under his front seat. He will be convicted, no error. Black powder/percussion guns have to be one of the biggest schisms in American guns laws: there is no regulation whatsoever in buying a percussion firearm, you can be 6 years old and buy a black powder revolver if you have the money, but once it's loaded, it is treated just the same as any firearm by law. The caps and black powder IS restricted, however; you must be over 18 (21 some places) and NOT be a convicted felon.
Perfectly legal for felons to possess in Missouri:
revisor.mo.gov
>The provisions of subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to the possession of an antique firearm.
(You can look it up to confirm, but "antique firearm" does include cap-and-ball revolvers.)
The other potential hangup is it being unlawful to carry a concealed firearm without a permit, as some states don't except antiques from this. (In such states, felons may possess black-powder arms on their own property, but may not be able to carry them in public at all, or may need to open-carry, which is problematic.) But since Missouri doesn't require a carry permit, this isn't an issue.
>I would imagine
If you don't know the answer, and can't be bothered to look it up, why shit up the thread with your speculation?
>felon
>idiot
Yeah, that's pretty damn likely.
But are you suggesting that a hypothetical reformed felon would be less idiotic to just flout the law, buy a glock in a back alley, and carry that?
Or to go unarmed as prey for those less reformed?
As for conversion cylinders, yes, they exist for most if not all currently-manufactured reproductions. Under federal law, a cap-and-ball revolver is not a firearm, and a conversion cylinder is not a firearm, but once installing the conversion in the revolver makes it a firearm.
>by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof
But a revolver cylinder is not any of those enumerated components.
You need to find better sources for information.
>in all 50 states
This is one of the surest ways to detect someone is feeding you bullshit, especially when it comes to firearms/weapons laws.
>Some gangbanger in Fresno
California law does not exclude antique firearms from their "felon in possession" law (it doesn't even matter if they're loaded or not); Missouri does. Different states have different laws.
>You need to find better sources for information.
Carry a loaded BP pistol into a courtroom, and report back dimwit. If they let you report back.
>antique firearms
That is very old firearms, recent production BP weapons are not "antique" you fucking moron.
reproductions are considered antiques you mouthbreather
A Winchester 1890 is an antique firearm. If you're a felon, go ahead and wave it around in front of a cop, see what happens.
You are a fucking fool, and you can try to decipher any or all gun laws the way you want to, but you don't have a fucking clue as to the shit you're stepping in.
Knock yourself out, idiot.
I'm in this thread a little late, but as a LEO from WI I can shed a little light from a personal experience. A felon has a BP on his person or in close proximity, loaded, then it is considered as a weapon or "firearm" and is subject for charging under Felon in Possession of a Firearm. Many states follow this same rule. Our department has arrested many people for this, especially if it was an arrest for a separate crime and they happened to be carrying. I dont know how people get away with YouTube videos and forum posts saying its okay. The court looks at it as a firearm if you load it and carry it on your person.
>why shit up the thread with your speculation?
It's easy to convince yourself you are right, that doesn't mean you are. I imagine as a felon one would be under more scrutiny from police and you'll be tasting pavement soon enough. I figure some common sense would be simple enough. You really think a cop is going to see a pistol in your pants and let you go?! Enjoy getting your face slammed because "black powder isnt a gun bro"
>I can't cite sources, so instead I will suggest you do something silly and illegal.
Are you assuming that each state's "felon in possession" law must use the same definition as the one restricting weapons in a courthouse? Because that's simply not true, and thus even if I were dumb enough to carry a weapon into a courthouse, the fact that I would be arrested for breaking that law would do nothing to prove your claim that felons are barred from possessing loaded black-powder firearms in all states.
Today you have the opportunity to learn that legal definitions aren't always the same as dictionary definitions.
But if you'd rather just call more knowledgeable people morons, that's fine too. It may not do you any good, but it's amusing for the rest of us.
>The court looks at it as a firearm if you load it and carry it on your person.
Yep. This is the way it works everywhere.
lol, like I said, knock yourself out, moron. Carry your BP gun, knowing that you're in the right and the court system won't jam your foolish ass in jail for years.
>taking legal advice from a felon
Just because LEO/courts do things, it doesn't mean they are a correct interpretation of the law. Under the actual federal law, it is 100% legal for a felon to posess AND carry a loaded BP gun, provided there are no state-level prohibitions on a felon carrying a weapon. Now, most states have something to say about felons with weapons anyway, and most states that don't will imprison a felon for carrying a BP revolver because "lol we don't care what are you gonna do about it" but the law says what it says and that isn't up for debate.
See how well your internet lawyering holds up when you get stopped for a dim license plate light and you get asked what that owo bulge is in your pants.
>legal definitions aren't always the same as dictionary definitions
You might want to look up the legal definition of "deadly weapon" Can a black powder or percussion-type firearm hurt, maim or kill someone? Yes, they have killed millions of people over the centuries. The court system will prosecute you for possession of a loaded percussion weapon, even if you can buy an unloaded one without restrictions.
>the way it works everywhere
Again, one of the surest sign of bullshit. Note the actual LEO above said "Many states", not all states, because unlike you he understands that different states have different laws.
Look up your own state's laws, and search for case law to see how your courts apply them, instead of regurgitating something someone else said about their state.
>Just because LEO/courts do things, it doesn't mean they are a correct interpretation of the law.
You are welcome to argue your case in American courts. However, you might want lube your asshole up before sentencing.
All games change when the gun is loaded and on a person, especially when found on a person in the commission of a crime. I'm trying to tell you from the experience of me and other officers in my state arresting felons with BP guns on them. They get charged with felon in possession, they go to court, they get found guilty, and they go to jail. This isn't up for "interpretation" like you think it is. There is a difference between having a BP revolver in your home for collection purposes vs walking around, in public with a BP firearm, loaded, on your person, as a felon. I don't know what "federal law" you are implying because I can name off 3 people I have arrested personally who did time for it and could probably find 100 more my department has arrested for it. None were appealed to the supreme court because your fantasy scenario of "federal law allowing felons to carry BP" is false.
>None were appealed to the supreme court because your fantasy scenario of "federal law allowing felons to carry BP"
Agree. The clown saying that it's OK to carry a black power firearm as a felon or in restricted CC states is using the same type arguments that some fools have used to claim they don't have to pay taxes-- "I'm a sovereign citizen!" or "There's no stipulation in the Constitution that we have to pay taxes!" These are the same fools who go to jail and snivel like little bitches forever.
>You might want to look up the legal definition of "deadly weapon"
Or you might want to stop assuming every state has the same laws as your state, since you seem to be assuming it's unlawful for a felon to possess a deadly weapon in Missouri.
Missouri does have a prohibition on felons possessing "firearms", but this says nothing about other weapons and specifically excludes "antique firearms".
revisor.mo.gov
There's a crime of "armed criminal action", which is using a "dangerous implement or deadly weapon" in committing certain felonies.
revisor.mo.gov
Then there are provisions relating to deadly weapons that apply to everyone (felon or not), and prohibit carrying deadly weapons in specific places/events (schools, government buildings, polling places, etc.).
revisor.mo.gov
But there's no prohibition on felons possessing "deadly weapons" in general.
>The bureaucrats got away with breaking the law, so it must mean they're not breaking the law
Jesus that is some next level bootlicking...daily reminder that all gun control is expressly disallowed by the 2nd amendment. Again, to my original point, running a successful criminal gang that illegally detains and imprisons people does NOT actually make what you're doing legal.
Well, you have interesting arguments that nobody will listen to because you're still a fucking moron.
I'm sure the authorities would love to hear you explain yourself. Feel free to carry a revolver and have a blast.
>But there's no prohibition on felons possessing "deadly weapons" in general.
lmfao. Think so? LMFAO
>lmfao
Not an argument. Feel free to cite the Missouri law in question.
Feel free to go to jail, IDGAF. BTW, are you a nigger? You think like one.
>I have no argument, so I'll call you a nigger
Double faggot nigger.
>says the felon
NIGGER
I
G
G
E
R
I'm going to enjoy my right to own guns and vote just that much more because of you. You've affirmed my belief that felons are felons because they are
S
T
U
P
I
D
>bootlicking
You sound like one of those "AM I BEING DETAINED" people. Your interpretation is wrong; felons will never have their gun rights back; nobody has pity for felons; get over it.
what if he has a loaded cylinder but it's not attached to the rest of the gun?
You are welcome to stay retarded and continue attempts to have some sort of life in spite of your foolish and ignorant concepts regarding law and specific rights. I find you pathetic beyond belief, but then again, most ex-cons are just as stupid and foolish as you are.
In many cases, the AM I BEING DETAINED crowd is legally correct. The vast majority of police contacts are not legally conducted these days.
>The vast majority of police contacts are not legally conducted these days.
lmfao. Nigger.
>He's actually a nigger
an hero in front of cops pls
Black powder ownership really depends on he state. My state bans inline black powder for felons. Flintlock would be fine, cap and ball revovler would not be. I imagine a felons carrying a cap and ball might be further regulated. Your friend needs to be smart and talk to a lawyer before he has to deal with a cop. Then again if he was smart enough to do that, he might not have become a convicted felon.
Constructive intent. You're carrying a gun, with ammo. Dosent matter if there is one in the chamber. Hood rats do it all the time, not caring one in the chamber and such.
I heard that some states consider a gun unloaded if it requires at least 2 actions to make it shootable.
Well, did a bit of research on the subject as i thought the answer was yes for carrying it concealed but no for mere possession and found something very relevant.
>In Missouri a convicted felon (Robinson) was arrested for possession of a firearm for possessing a black powder pistol. This became a precedent setting case. The ruling relies heavily on recent U.S. Supreme Court cases, notably Heller and McDonald, but also invokes Missouri’s own new Amendment 5
>The latter was the result of a Senate resolution that had passed the state legislature by a large margin early last year then was certified by 66 percent of votes cast in an August 2014 election. The amendment made the right to keep and bear arms “an unalienable right” and required state lawmakers and courts to uphold it.
>Dierker, applying this to the current state laws post-Amendment 5, cited that since the state does not differentiate between different classes of felonies and does not define how non-violent felons can be stripped of their constitutional rights, dismissed the gun charges against Robinson.
>That amendment does not guarantee it would be legal to possess a black powder firearm but it does not specifically make it illegal either. If I were a felon wanting to possess a firearm or black powder revolver in Missouri, I would attempt to get a written opinion from the state Attorney General.
>quora.com
Given how recently amendment 5 was added, along with all the other recent changes to based missouri's firearms law, i don't think anybody but his local prosecutor or the AG can truthfully pretend to know.
You're getting into semantics with claims like that. I wouldn't trust a District Attorney's interpretation to semantics. Play it safe with guns, especially if you are a felon.
That information is not completely correct.
Robinson did not have a black powder (i.e. percussion) pistol, which as an antique firearm is specifically excluded from the law he was charged under.
Rather, he had a modern .380 pistol.
More research shows that it and similar cases were later appealed to the state supreme court where the dismissal of charges was reversed.
Maryland had been trying to pass a law treating black powder handguns as modern ones so felons can't possess them. This after a crazy guy prohibited from owning guns offed his ex-gf with a Remington 1858 revolver
>implying black powder guns were legal in some state
a-are you some kind of nigger?
You’ll go to jail even as a non felon, retard.
>All 50
Wrong
>California
That's a problem when you can get life for CC'n a Nerf gun.
Carry a machete into a court room and strawman harder cunt.
