What's the point of shotguns in a modern context? They can't reach ranges nearly as far as rifles can and even close up they're arguably less effective than carbines or SMGs. Sure they can use non-lethal ammo that other guns can't but isn't that more suited to LEO? The military still seems to use them so there must be some reason they see the need to.
What's the point of shotguns in a modern context...
Cooper Lewis
Luis Bennett
>and even close up they're arguably less effective than carbines or SMGs
I'd like to see you try and argue this actually
Josiah Brooks
>What's the point
clay pigeon shooting
t. patrician
Chase Hernandez
>inb4 only pretending to be retarded
Just ignore the idiots and they'll go away.
Isaac Carter
Having to pump after each shot means you're at a heavy disadvantage if either you miss or you're going up against multiple guys, and reloading when you're out is much slower than the other two. Sure ideally you'd keep it topped up but you may not always have that opportunity and it's another potential risk you'd be taking by using one.
Ethan Parker
Great keltech thread op
Has anyone tried pic related? I cant decide if keltech is too much plastic or if this could end up being a fun hiking gun
Hunter Foster
>what is a semi-auto shotgun
Nathaniel Sullivan
There's literally a thread on it up right now
Mason Green
OP this thread is hella gay and so are you ... have you ever even shot a gun ?
Aaron Parker
stolen from wikipedia
>A Joint Service Combat Shotgun Program report on the lethality of shotguns in war states, in support of the use of the shotgun in warfare, "the probability of hitting a man-sized target with a shotgun was superior to that of all other weapons", and goes on to support this with statistics compiled by the British from the conflict in Borneo in the 1960s.[2]
>The buckshot typically used in a combat shotgun spreads out to a greater or lesser degree depending on the barrel choke, and can be effective at ranges as far as 70 m (75 yards). The delivery of the large number of projectiles simultaneously makes the shotgun the most effective short range weapon commonly used, with a hit probability 45% greater than a sub-machine gun (5-round burst), and twice as great as an assault rifle (3-round burst).[2] While each pellet is only roughly as effective as a small caliber handgun round, and offers very poor penetration against an armored target, the multiple projectiles increases the likelihood of one or more peripheral wounds.
its also very useful in home defense, where range and capacity arent really an isssue, but ammo selection, cost, and hit probability are
Jordan Scott
Pretty much none beyond breaching from a mil/leo context
In the civilian world however, they have significantly greater uses
Levi Murphy
yeah but this thread is garbage lol
Mason Robinson
not what this guy is using
Jonathan Scott
If you are sweeping afghany mud huts, a shotgun is 10x better then a rifle
Jaxson Bell
Door Breeching, Tiny Grenades, and Anti-Small Drone Work
Jace Rivera
That seriously looks like Martha Stewart in her vintage modeling days.
Aaron Rodriguez
Ethan Gray
Army Officer here - while I'm not frontline Combat Arms, I did talk to some guys who were (an Army Infantry Captain and a Marine Infantry First Sergeant) because I was curious as to the answer myself.
The answer is that while the military still stocks shotguns, they're not often used even in MOUT situations. Even in urban terrain a carbine is generally preferable because a shotgun's effective range ends at around 50, 100 yards at most while a carbine can reach out to 300 yards. Urban terrain is close, but there are still long enough firing lines that you want the range of a carbine.
A shotgun also isn't actually much better than a carbine even within its effective range and even then a carbine does have advantages. A shotgun isn't "better enough" and most Infantrymen would rather just carry a carbine than have to deal with carrying the extra weight and bulk of a shotgun and its ammo for a marginal increase in those situations where it'd come in handy.
They're still useful for breaching doors but most Infantrymen would rather blow up a wall because the door's what everyone inside is looking at.
Oliver Baker
Former grunt. Shotguns are for breaching and killing stray dogs. That's it. No one uses them for anything else. Maybe some high speed spec ops guy carries one somewhere sometime, maybe some security guard at a post or checkpoint has one, but in the modern military if you are going on a patrol, no. You weaken the unit by having a guy with a weapon that is only good for 50 yard kill shots. Breaching is a shotguns only current modern mainstream combat military use
Nathan Carter
Watch the battle of New Zealand mosque. Tarrant mag dumped a semi auto shotgun at two muslims. One of them was still alive and crawling away. He switched to his AR15. He used a pump shotgun in a drive by, but had trouble pumping it and the muslim got away. Two shotguns, only one muslim killed.
Connor King
You know there are magazine-fed, semi-automatic shotguns, right? Stop learning guns from call of duty you fuckin mong
Jackson Sanders
Of course I know that but I do not hear of them being used often if at all by the actual military. At most I've know they use stuff like the benelli M3 or M4 but even those are not magazine fed. The vast majority of shotguns they use are pump actions with internal tube magazines.
Ian White
>anti-small drone work
Listen. Understand. That Terminator is out there. It can't be reasoned with, it can't be bargained with...it doesn't feel pity of remorse or fear...and it absolutely will not stop. Ever. Until you are dead.
Elijah Harris
>quoting something from the 1960s
Lmao
William Sullivan
The reason that shotguns are still relevant and in service are because they are a multi-purpose (or "special purpose" weapon.
I own several AKs and an HK MR556A1, but they are not ideal for the breaching, less lethal, and personal self defense applications that I use my shotgun for. When its a nice compact package like an sbs, you can get a wide variety of use out of one weapon that you can easily stash next to you in your vehicle. most days i have my KSG in my trunk since its so compact, i wouldnt let my rifles bounce around in my trunk, even if i had the room for them, which i dont.
Ian Cox
Fundamentally, the same problems that afflicted tube fed shotties in 1915 apply today. Limited capacity and slow reloads. KSG obviously has two tubes, so that'd help, but you're still going to be spending time loading those tubes rather than slapping a magazine in. You could advocate for shotguns with magazines, but that's added bulk for load bearing gear for a gun that won't be super great past 50 yards, even with innovations like flitecontrol.
Sebastian Cooper
If you empty your ksg at your target(s) at close range and still need to reload you need more target practice, not more shells.
Samuel Nelson
Hit probability is irrelevant in home defense scenarios as within the ranges you'd fire a shotgun in your home there would be almost no spread regardless of your choice of choke on a typical 12 gauge shotgun