APOLOGIZE

>radically different

no its not they just downsized the orgiinal -43 designs to remove the 2 engines and slap a passive crankshaft to a simple fan with no other moving parts
besides that its really the same shit even the nozzle that is behind the front gear is there just like on the yak

(plus i dont even understand why people gets spergs out about this LM did BOUGHT the designs after the soviet union collapse)

did something change over the countless other airshows we have already seen and already concluded that it cant do shit?

>vodkaniggers
Kek. Got me with that one

The Convair model 200 had the exact same engine positioning and all, yet was prototyped much earlier than the Yak-141. There's no reason to believe the F-35 design is a copy of the Yak-141 since nothing is exclusive to the Yak.

People get annoyed because the idea of "westerners stealing glorious Russian designs" is something vatniks try to push all the time, because they have this "we wuz kangz" and "the man keeping us down" daydream.

>plus i dont even understand why people gets spergs out about this LM did BOUGHT the designs after the soviet union collapse
Link?

Okay, so I did like 10 mins of research and it turns out that the f35 is not supposed to be a conventional fighter. What it's supposed to do is be a super smart plane that outsmarts enemy planes.

I'm waiting for the first real life engagement with this thing, it will either vindicate what everyone's been saying about it being trash or lead to a lot of butt blasted people on Jow Forums

>boeing
f18 is all northrop mate

all those commies did was copy everyone else.

>super smart airplane
automatic integration of its systems doesnt make it """"""""""smart""""""""""

F22 v. SU 36, who wins?

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helps them forget being raped as a conscript

I CAN'T WAIT TO BOMB SOME DODONGOS!!!

>Vodkaniggers

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Yeah, which is why Lockheed spent sooo much money acquiring it was they were building the F 35.

I thought it was McDonell Douglas, but I'm just a faggot.

20 rubles isn't a lot of money kid

it takes some incredible levels of cope to have your mindset. they didn't buy it to copy it, they bought it so they could have a life-sized model of what NOT to do to have a successful workhorse of a fighter jet.

when you have enough money you will eventually start throwing it around just to save some time, why not buy something that russia was pouring tons of money and research into if they're so poor that they're willing to sell it to an adversary?

it's a pretty crazy machine, even video games don't do half the things an F-35 does for it's pilots.

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Nope. The yak had 3 jet engines, the f35 has 1. Sorry buddy, but they have no common features except standard jet features.

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>what is McDonnel Douglas

>F-35 is ug....
WRONG

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I hope you're joking when you say Lockheed gave somewhat under half a billion for the privilege of building a non working prototype.

think of it as donating to a lesser, more undeveloped nation. incredible super powers give money away all the time, one that is truly incredible can still give his enemies money and still come out miles ahead.

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>no common features
Not him but you're joking right? Both planes use the thrust vectored nozzle + central thrust design with stablizing nozzles in the wings. The only difference is the Yak 141 had the central body thrust given by a separate small jet engine, while the F 35 uses a shaft driven lift fan.

The best argument you can give for the F 35 not being a rip off is that Rolls Royce did most of the design of the VTOL engine.

Mate you've been trolled so hard you've become irrational

Lockheed correctly identified there was a huge market for a harrier replacement and thought there was potential in the yak.

Too bad the 141 was unflyable. Lockheed got no tech transfer from yak btw.

>vodkaniggers
Comedy asbestos

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Wrong. The f35 doesnt use jet engines for its lift fan. Sorry buddy.

Its vectored nozzle was developed by pratt and whitney 20 years before the yak flew btw. You dumb.

If anything, it's the Yak stealing three pulse jet engines idea from '60s era civilian Convair.

>harrier replacement
This is a ridiculous statement, no one was tendering a Harrier replacement and they had no government tenders or subsidies for it. AND they were developing the X 35 at the same time, including the VTOL version. According to Jane's they literally bought it for the design data.
web.archive.org/web/20090226130458/http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/jawa/jawa010103_1_n.shtml

Aint going to waste my time to write an answer to this picture, straight from the archive:
A little list of stuff that is fishy on a short glimpse in this picture alone >Yak uses dedicated vertical thrust jets not a lift fan
Obvious difference hence why they lie about it.
>work of Petr Ufimstev was deem to be useless for soviets and so it was allowed to be puplish publicly
American making stuff work russians could not.
>the picture of the YAK-43 is according to wikipedia from a site for vector graphics that is offline, great source
On top of that every vantik like you would have shitted all over me for using something from wikipedia, while almost all the text on the picture is from there.
>there is no source at all for the YAK-43 using s-ducts
Inb4 "but YAK-40 and YAK-42 had them". Yeah they had them but they are fucking civilian airliners and entire different planes

codeonemagazine.com/article.html?item_id=137
>A great deal of misinformation has appeared on the Internet regarding the relationship of the Soviet Yak-41 (later Yak-141), NATO reporting name Freestyle, to the X-35 and the rest of the JSF program. The Pratt & Whitney 3BSD nozzle design predates the Russian work. In fact the 3BSD was tested with a real engine almost twenty years before the first flight of the Yak.
>Throughout the 1970s and 1980s, the Soviet Navy wanted a supersonic STOVL fighter to operate from its ski jump equipped carriers. At what point the Yakovlev Design Bureau became aware of the multi-swivel nozzle design is not known, but the Soyuz engine company created its own variant of it. The Yak-41 version of the nozzle, from published pictures, appears to be a three-bearing swivel duct with a significant offset “kink.” The Yak-141 also used two RKBM RD-41 lift engines – an almost identical arrangement to the Convair Model 200 design. The aircraft was also re-labeled as a Yak-141 to imply a production version, but no order for follow-on series came from the Russian Navy.
>Yakovlev was looking for money to keep its VTOL program alive, not having received any orders for a production version of the Yak-141. Lockheed provided a small amount of funding in return for obtaining performance data and limited design data on the Yak-141. US government personnel were allowed to examine the aircraft. However, the 3BSN design was already in place on the X-35 before these visits.

>Kevin Renshaw served as the ASTOVL Chief Engineer for General Dynamics and was later the deputy to Lockheed ASTOVL Chief Engineer Rick Rezabek in 1994 when the 3BSD concept was incorporated into the X-35B design. Renshaw continues to work in the Advanced System Development branch of Skunk Works where he is currently working on flight demonstration of the DARPA ARES VTOL UAV program.

You mean the Convair Model 200 Sea Control? It was never built.

Literally thousands of potential sales for a harrier replacement by the early 90 buddy.

Look how big of a gap the USA and UK had while waiting for the f35B. India has had to buy the mig 29k. What a piece of shit.

If they bought the design data they certainly didnt use any of it.

not an argument :)

so they were not thinking about a harrier replacement but were researching the possiblity for a VTOL f-35? do you not recognize the contradiction?

Read my post. I said the only difference is that the Yak doesn't use a lift fan. The F 35's vertical engines were developed by Rolls-Royce. A thrust vectoring nozzle is not what let's a plane take off vertically.

>thousands
There weren't even a thousand Harriers built.

But the design of 2 pulse jets and a swivel nozzle was there.

It isnt like the yak flew that successfully either.

Vertical engine buddy. You still dont get it do you, the f35B has one engine. Not 3 like the yak.

Wow how dumb.

Have this

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>misinterpreting my words
I said no one was tendering a Harrier replacement. There is to a defence company a very big difference between developing a plane on your own initiative versus working with the government. In the first you don't get any help or subsidies. The idea that Lockheed was spending hundreds of millions for the possibility of replacing the Harrier at some point is ridiculous.

It’s supposed to penetrate forward and mark enemy targets for missle haulers like the new F15x. But it will probably just bomb stuff in the Middle East

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A Russians all this stupid? A supersonic harrier with more capabilities and available to former Soviet bloc countries as well as the west would have a much larger order base than the old harrier.

Glad to see someone here understands that Lockheed clearly cooperated with Yak on the VTOL system

Just for your info: you are talking to one of Armatards alter egos he is using after he got banned 3 weeks ago and anons started to tell other anons to report him when he reappeared.

No, it wouldn't. The western countries would all buy the X 35 for most fighters because of the billions already invested in it in supercruise, stealth and sensor fusion. If the VTOL for the X 35 didn't through, there may have been a niche similar to the Harrier for a handicapped VTOL fighter. But the idea that Lockheed gave hundreds of millions to an adversary's company for the possibility of commercial development of the Yak is ridiculous.

They didnt cooperate with them like you want to imply and a lot of design choices already were present in american desgins before the YAK was made, also the 3BSN design was already in place before they done the deal with em.

What did lockheed get from the 141 then. Because it wasnt the lift fan, that was rolls royce. The swivel nozzle was developed by pratt and whitney in the 80s.

So I'm confused as to what you think they got?

why is that such a crazy idea though, they certainly have some money to burn and if it helps them in any way they will certainly make it back.

our military industrial complex doesn't get a rep because it sucks ass, it's because it's the best in the world and willing to do anything to improve it's time at the top to continue raking in the tax money.

Jow Forums isn't even my home base but it's good to know you guys let anonymous posters live rent free in your head.

Just a bit convenient that you appear every time Aramatard gets rekted in a thread shortly before or when he gets banned. Must be a coincident. Inb4 more defensive rants about anons being obsessed and how shit this board is.

>just a bit convenient
maybe to the mentally ill

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Its explicitly stated by reliable sources they bought design data and expertise from Yak. What they got we don't know because the deal was so opaque, but the most apparent answer would be stabilization and load distribution of the planes. The 3BSN is just a part of the VTOL, the system also needs a carefully balanced plane supporting a number of slightly different centers of gravity depending on the mission load. The X 35 VTOL was never tested until several years after the Yak deal, while the Yak 141 VTOL had already been tested.

you clearly havent see the test flights of yak on the kuznetsov eh

>Its explicitly stated by reliable sources they bought design data and expertise from Yak.
Who?

Now you are not even trying it anymore.

>Its explicitly stated by reliable sources they bought design data and expertise from Yak.
Which seems to be rather minimal.
>The 3BSN is just a part of the VTOL
Oh, so now it is? When did that happen? Vatniks could not shut up about how the russians made it first like always for years. All that you fuckheads are doing is backpaddling to adapt to new hard information and then spin the next form a new bunch of pulled out of your ass claims.

>Convair 200 was conceptualized long before the Yak 141
>3 bearing swivel nozzles were patented long before the Yak 141
>"F-35 is a copy of the Yak 141"
Why do Russians always lie so brazenly? If anything, it was the Russians who stole American concepts and inventions for the Yak 141.

They were and are brought up in a system were constant repeated lies become the consensus for them, it is just the normal progression for them to try the same exact thing on everyone else. Inb4 whataboutamerica.

why? because it works?

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Oh, I've seen it.

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So the front lift fan uses dedicated engines instead of a drive shaft. Is it that big of a difference? It isn't, Americans just make shitty knock-offs of Russian tech. So shitty, in fact, that they need to be stored in climate-controlled hangars, or else moisture will get inside and the shitbricks won't turn on. Also, literally what's the point arguing about the S-duct? The 141 didn't have any stealth features at all to begin with, so why sperg about the S-duct?

Cope harder, faggot. If it werent for vatniks and idiots constantly claiming and posting those wrong claims, no one would care about it. But they do, over and over, like every time when they want to sell another lie. Just look at the milage of that one post alone, 12 times it has been posted in response of that picture and that is just the small portion of when it gets answered with this.

tl;dr: Vatniks and idiots make idiotic claims on endless repeat, that is why everyone else has to correct them all the time.

>Vatniks
>idiotic claims
Call me back when the Blackhawk doesn't need climate-controlled hangars anymore and the F-35 stops being an embarrassment

Fatniks HATE this post

Call me back when vatniks stop making those claims and when what you say is relevant to what is said.

More like everyone is mildy amused about the usual cope.

>So the front lift fan uses dedicated engines instead of a drive shaft. Is it that big of a difference? It isn't
As if that was the point. It isn't.The point is that the Convair 200 came first.

Attached: original Yak 141.jpg (800x549, 97K)

>Pull up some never-manufactured blueprint warrior in hopes of sticking it to the vatniks
Cope harder

Every claim calling out western tech for being unreliable and in need of babying even in times of war is relevant.

Also, if you hate vatniks so much, stop procuring Russian aircraft

>Every claim calling out western tech for being unreliable and in need of babying even in times of war is relevant.
Nope, you are just butthurt and picked something at random to reteliate in your butthurt. So the usual thing vatnik pets like you do.
>Also, if you hate vatniks so much, stop procuring Russian aircraft
Never happened.

You are the same faggot that is going wild over vietnam and aircraft in the other thread?

Wether it has actually been built is of absolutely no consequence. Not every invention gets built and it literally doesn't matter, neither to patent attorneys nor to historians.

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that altitude loss in turns, wow that is eurofighter levels of retarded

Even more so when every shitty thumbnail size drawing of some russian tech that never was built is used by vatniks as proof that russians did something first.

>whether or not a concept has been tested is of absolutely no consequence
imagine being this fucking retarded

It's true though. Talk to a patent attorney if you don't believe me (do you even have those in Russia?). An invention is an invention, regardless wether it has actually been built or not. Tons of inventions haven't been built, aren't being built and will never be built.

That too lol. As everyone already knew, Russians are massive liars and hypocrites.

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No, I'm not even aware of that thread

History is just a bedtime story, amiright?

>Never happened
Why is the Mi-171 undergoing overhaul at my job full of English labels and painted in standard US camo patterns? Pic related

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>Russians steal tech from Americans
>Get made when Americans reciprocate

He is. Also see He just cant live without us, he is just too obsessed.

>Why is the Mi-171 undergoing overhaul at my job full of English labels and painted in standard US camo patterns? Pic related
i don't know? shouldn't you know the answer to this if it's your job?

also it's not abnormal for the US to purchase russian aircraft for flight test purposes, we have plenty of russian aircraft and they're probably in better condition than the ruskies could keep them in.

so far it seems like two seperate people in this thread have been accused of being this guy, who is he and why does he have the moniker of armatard?

>Why is
You are as autistic as ever as it seems and still cant understand what people mean.

It flies beautifully, but then a plane should. I honestly don't see anything particularly impressive otherwise. Its turning performance is very standard. It's sluggish post-stall. It has a snappy roll rate, but so does every single engine fighter. I've seen far more impressive performances out of F-18s and flankers.

1) that's a huge difference.

And there is far more different between the two than just that. Even the swivel nozzle is different.

You guys have no idea what a rhetorical question is, it seems. That machine in that half-censored picture is used in actual duty in Afghanistan, because your shitty blackhawks aren't up to the job. This machine was purchased by the American specifically for the reason that his own designs aren't certified to fly in dusty climates and have abnormal failure rates.

This Mi-171 is also being repaired to an inferior standard, because the Russkies and us have developed newer superior maintenance methods and parts, but the American is so thoroughly baffled by Red Russian Magic, he insists on using parts, lubricants, and overhaul methods from 1973. Said parts and lubricants have to be ordered extra from the Russians, who have to manufacture them on demand, because they are so archaic. We had to pull out old, decomposing documents detailing how to perform maintenance as per the 1973 standard.

Because the American is in complete awe before Red Magic and in desperate need of a working workhorse, which is why the fucking lubricant I used today (and can't get it off, ffs that shit can't be dissolved in anything), the one can we have of it "for the American helicopter" has "manufactured to GOST 1973 (some more numbers) standard" written on it.

Americans are worse than third-worlders when it comes to military tech

Basically this. Burgers jerking off their pride glans over a nothingburger

>because the Russkies and us
Who is us?

Is that an Afghan helicopter?

Attached: afghan-uniform-police-recruits-board-an-afghan-air-force-mi-17-helicopter-DJ49PF.jpg (1300x948, 180K)

We have those too, but those have Arabic on and inside them instead of English

Not doxxing myself

This. American planes literally from the sky and fail on the regular, but they expect us to believe they have a good K:D ratio? Fucking bullshit. even their civilian planes disintegrate at random.

Most of their planes cant even go supersonic without melting the insides of their engines because of their terrible metallurgy. Americans have always had a tech inferiority and now ever aside from them are waking up to this and calling them out on their horseshit. Just look at the eurocanards, euros got so fed up with American planes they decided to make their own, and Americans have lost every wargame since.

But there's English lettering in my picture as well. "Danger Tail Rotor", like on your picture.

There's also Arabic on yours and the Afghan tri-color on the side

Not him, but you can Clearly see where the tri color was in your pic, and where the Arabic was.